I have a site which looks quite nice in IE and also looks just fine on
Mozilla Firefox (on my home machine). But when I access it from the server
where I have uploaded it, NONE of the CSS formatting works.

I have bought "Tree Menu Magic" from Project 7 and adapted their style sheet
for this site.

Site address: www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/vest

I don't think it's a Mozilla problem as such because then it wouldn't work
on Mozilla when loading from my own machine, right? And it can't be a server
problem because then IE wouldn't work properly either?

so anybody know what gives?
TIA

Pixel Warrior wrote:

> I have a site which looks quite nice in IE and also looks
> just fine on Mozilla Firefox (on my home machine). But when
> I access it from the server where I have uploaded it, NONE
> of the CSS formatting works.
>
> I have bought "Tree Menu Magic" from Project 7 and adapted
> their style sheet for this site.
>
> Site address: www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/vest
>
> I don't think it's a Mozilla problem as such because then
> it wouldn't work on Mozilla when loading from my own
> machine, right? And it can't be a server problem because
> then IE wouldn't work properly either?
>
> so anybody know what gives?

Your CSS isn't exactly written in a way which is easy to spot
mistakes, so I just copied the whole lot, uploaded it to my own
server, and it is working in both Moz and IE.
http://locusmeus.com/temp/vest.html
Didn't copy any images, but the colour and text formatting is
there, in both browsers.
So maybe it is a server thing?

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:22:06 GMT, Pixel Warrior wrote:

> www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/vest

If you check the file..
<http://www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/v...sets/styles.css>

Against the validator it indicates a problem..
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/...sets/styles.css>

Which seems to be that your server is
delivering the CSS as 'text/html' rather
than 'text/css', which you can see here..
<http://mindprod.com/jgloss/mime.html>

It seems you need to get your host
to configure there Apache correctly..
<http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph...ww.tased.edu.au>

And BTW, please put full and proper URL's,
as some newsreaders do not presume an
http:// before URLish looking things..

HTH

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

Thanks! that seems to be the answer. And thanks for the hint about the
http:// thing.


"Andrew Thompson" <SeeMySites@www.invalid> wrote in message
news:bztgccf9q7d2$.lmubha36ixea.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:22:06 GMT, Pixel Warrior wrote:
> 
>
> If you check the file..
> <http://www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/v...sets/styles.css>
>
> Against the validator it indicates a problem..
>
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/...d.edu.au/tasonl
ine/vest/assets/styles.css>
>
> Which seems to be that your server is
> delivering the CSS as 'text/html' rather
> than 'text/css', which you can see here..
> <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/mime.html>
>
> It seems you need to get your host
> to configure there Apache correctly..
> <http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph...ww.tased.edu.au>
>
> And BTW, please put full and proper URL's,
> as some newsreaders do not presume an
> http:// before URLish looking things..
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Andrew Thompson
> http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
> http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
> http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

Pixel Warrior wrote:
> I have a site which looks quite nice in IE and also looks just fine
> on Mozilla Firefox (on my home machine). But when I access it from
> the server where I have uploaded it, NONE of the CSS formatting
> works.
>
> www.tased.edu.au/tasonline/vest

You're sending the css with the wrong MIME type. The server claims it
is text/html. The correct MIME type for CSS is text/css. Fix that, and
it should be fine.

> I don't think it's a Mozilla problem as such because then it
> wouldn't work on Mozilla when loading from my own machine, right?

Your own machine does not have a server, but rather file > open, where
there is no MIME type. Or else you do have a server, but it is
configured properly. The live server is not configured properly.

According to the specs, the MIME type is definitive. If the MIME type
says it's text/html, then it is text/html. NB: the ".css" on a url is
not a file extension; there are no file extensions in a url, so only
the MIME type has any meaning.

> And it can't be a server problem because then IE wouldn't work
> properly either?

MSIE breaks the interworking specs in this regard. Instead of
accepting the MIME type as definitive, it sniffs the content and tries
to second guess it. In this case, IE violates the spec and gives you
what you want, but not what the MIME type says. Mozilla does not
violate the spec in this case, and thus the results are not what you want.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Brian wrote:

> According to the specs, the MIME type is definitive. If the MIME type
> says it's text/html, then it is text/html. NB: the ".css" on a url is
> not a file extension; there are no file extensions in a url,

Right.  Of course, you know and I know that it probably derives from a
filename extension on the server; but that *should* have no
significance for an HTTP *client*, as you rightly pointed out.

> so only the MIME type has any meaning.

To the client, indeed.  It *might* be used on the server to deduce the
appropriate MIME type to send - the server in question here is
evidently getting it wrong.
 
>
> MSIE breaks the interworking specs in this regard. Instead of
> accepting the MIME type as definitive, it sniffs the content and tries
> to second guess it. In this case, IE violates the spec and gives you
> what you want, but not what the MIME type says.

Exactly.

> Mozilla does not violate the spec in this case, and thus the results
> are not what you want.

Well, I'm sorry to say that in relation to CSS files, Mozilla too
disregards this rule, *when* operating in quirks mode, and that the
disregard is deliberate, see:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-dev.../quirklist.html

As you'd expect, some clue-impaired designers then "solve" their
problem by removing their DOCTYPE declaration in order to get quirks
mode...

Opera also has an option (enabled by default) to second-guess the MIME
type.  One may well blame all of this misbehaviour on IE for creating
the problem in the first place, so it's hard to know just where to put
the blame.

hope this helps.

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Brian wrote:
> 
>
> To the client, indeed.  It *might* be used on the server to deduce
> the appropriate MIME type to send

Of course. I opted for conciseness at the expense of being thorough.
Perhaps I made the wrong choice.
 
 
>
> Well, I'm sorry to say that in relation to CSS files, Mozilla too
> disregards this rule,

I did say "in this case." The op's server sends a MIME type for css of
"text/html". Evidently, Firefox does not "fixup" (read: second guess)
text/html to text/css. Judging from the op's test case, Firefox only
fixes up text/plain to text/css. Mind you, I've not run test cases
myself, I'm only deducing from the op and what I read from Mozilla's site.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

Quoth the raven Brian:

> I did say "in this case." The op's server sends a MIME type for css
> of "text/html". Evidently, Firefox does not "fixup" (read: second
> guess) text/html to text/css. Judging from the op's test case,
> Firefox only fixes up text/plain to text/css. Mind you, I've not
> run test cases myself, I'm only deducing from the op and what I
> read from Mozilla's site.

Moz/FF also 'fix up' css when sent as "application/x-pointplus"
as one of my ISPs can't seem to get corrected.

We've been leaving regular reminders in their help and suggestions
forum for a couple of years now...

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Brian wrote:

> Alan J. Flavell wrote:
> 
>
> Of course. I opted for conciseness at the expense of being thorough.
> Perhaps I made the wrong choice.

No offence intended; this is an area which quite a number of newcomers
seem to get confused about, and I had the idea that going into just a
bit more explicit detail might be helpful.  But I could be wrong...

all the best.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:57:28 -0400, Brian wrote:

> You're sending the css with the wrong MIME type.

As y'all may (or may not) have noticed, I used a
Java based signed applet* to check the MIME type
of the CSS being delivered from the OP's servers.

* <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/mime.html>

Since I heard of this applet though, I wondered
how you folks normally check a MIME type?
[ The applet requires Java (obviously) and the
user must accept the CMP (Roedy Green) security
certificate, which I think throws some people. ]

Do you have a specially enabled browser or
browser plug-in.  Stand-alone network type tools?
Some web site (that I apparantly missed) that will
check MIME types given an URL?

Ultimately I could code something myself that
accepts the address of the resource in the URL
parameters, checks it and returns pure HTML to
the client.  But I have a distinct feeling it is
so easy it must already have been done..

[ I concede that the CSS validator was a pretty
good *indicator* of a problem, but I would prefer
something that stated explicitly what the MIME
type was.. ]

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology