For Photoshop for print work and web work on a PC:

My 7 year old Sony GDM-W900 22.5 viewable monitor is dying and I need a
replacement.  Sony has stopped making large monitors and has moved into
the LCD arena.  So far, these are the two models for 23" or greater than
I have been considering:

HP LCD L2335, as seen here:
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/...2335_specs.html

and Sony SDM-P232W/B, as seen here:
[url]http://displaysbysony.com/displayb2b/model.jsp?pCode=LCD&pModelId=561&pMenu=Specs[
/url]

So far, I am leaning toward the HP as it seems more feature rich,
however, is has one major drawback.  The color temperature is set at the
default and does not appear to be user changeable.  This could be a real
problem.  I have an email in to them to find out for sure if it can be
changed, and am waiting for an answer.

A minimum native resolution of 1920 x 1200 is important.  I have learned
that the native resolution on LCDs is very important.

So my questions are:

Do any of you use LCDs over CRTs?

Are the days of different angles yielding different colors (as was the
case with notebooks) a thing of the past with these new LCDs?

Any suggestions or recommendations on these or other models with 23"
minimum size and the larger resolution?

I'm hoping to get my order/purchase in over the Memorial Day weekend to
take advantage of the sales and coupons.

Any input/help is appreciated!

Thanks,
Dorothy

email addy is munged

<Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com> wrote in message news:KkYtc.189$iV4.39@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com
..
> For Photoshop for print work and web work on a PC:
>
> My 7 year old Sony GDM-W900 22.5 viewable monitor is dying and I need a
> replacement.  Sony has stopped making large monitors and has moved into
> the LCD arena.  So far, these are the two models for 23" or greater than
> I have been considering:
>
> HP LCD L2335, as seen here:
> http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/...2335_specs.html
>
> and Sony SDM-P232W/B, as seen here:
> http://displaysbysony.com/displayb2...u=Spec
s
>
> So far, I am leaning toward the HP as it seems more feature rich,
> however, is has one major drawback.  The color temperature is set at the
> default and does not appear to be user changeable.  This could be a real
> problem.  I have an email in to them to find out for sure if it can be
> changed, and am waiting for an answer.
>
> A minimum native resolution of 1920 x 1200 is important.  I have learned
> that the native resolution on LCDs is very important.

Stay at least ten feet away from any current HP product.  Their
management has been gutting the company for the last three years.

> So my questions are:
>
> Do any of you use LCDs over CRTs?

LCDs are great for text and non-critical graphics work, but they
still lack color gamut relative to higher-end CRTs.  Working with
images with lots of near-blacks or near-whites is often an exercise
in futility.  Also their backlights begin to fade within a year or two
and will eventually fail altogether, like all other backlights.  Best
not to invest a large sum of money into that technology IMO.

> Are the days of different angles yielding different colors (as was the
> case with notebooks) a thing of the past with these new LCDs?

No.  Some are much better than others, but the issue remains.

> Any suggestions or recommendations on these or other models with 23"
> minimum size and the larger resolution?

While it's only 22", Mitsubishi's 2070SB with their Diamondtron
tube is one of the brightest consumer CRTs made (= largest color
gamut), and can handle 1920x1200 without breaking a sweat.
This tube is used by LaCie and others in addition to Mitsubishi's
own models.

Rick

> I'm hoping to get my order/purchase in over the Memorial Day weekend to
> take advantage of the sales and coupons.
>
> Any input/help is appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Dorothy
>
> email addy is munged
>

I agree with all of this.  I have a couple of things to add, however.  The
first is you probably shouldn't compare a 23" CRT with a 23" LCD.  The 23"
LCD will have a display size of 23" diagonal.  The 23" CRT will have a
"viewing area" of closer to 21" - 21.5" diagonal, and by the time you adjust
the height and width to get a circle to display as truly round you will
probably be down another inch or so.  I don't intend this as a plug for
LCDs, hoever, because they are not currently up to snuff for imagery.  You
should take sizes into account, however.

The other point is that I believe Sony is still making and will continue to
make the Trinitron tube, which many other monitor and TV set manufacturers
use.  I don't think it is quite as good as the Diamondtron when new, but it
does seem to maintain it's color performance longer.

Don


"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2hr4srFgdq36U1@uni-berlin.de...
> <Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com> wrote in message
news:KkYtc.189$iV4.39@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com... 
http://displaysbysony.com/displayb2...561&pMenu=Specs[color=dar
kred] 
>
> Stay at least ten feet away from any current HP product.  Their
> management has been gutting the company for the last three years.
> 
>
> LCDs are great for text and non-critical graphics work, but they
> still lack color gamut relative to higher-end CRTs.  Working with
> images with lots of near-blacks or near-whites is often an exercise
> in futility.  Also their backlights begin to fade within a year or two
> and will eventually fail altogether, like all other backlights.  Best
> not to invest a large sum of money into that technology IMO.
> 
>
> No.  Some are much better than others, but the issue remains.
> 
>
> While it's only 22", Mitsubishi's 2070SB with their Diamondtron
> tube is one of the brightest consumer CRTs made (= largest color
> gamut), and can handle 1920x1200 without breaking a sweat.
> This tube is used by LaCie and others in addition to Mitsubishi's
> own models.
>
> Rick
> 
>
>

Thanks, Don.  For larger monitors, the 22.5 VIS (viewable) seems to be
the "standard".  Rick also feels that LCDs are not yet there for graphic
work.  That's two for two in my book.

What you said about color performance is the problem with my monitor.
It has lost its ability to properly display darks, and the white looks
like a soft blue.  It's test pattern shows no difference between the
white and light blue.

Thanks again,
Dorothy

email addy is munged


Don, using only recycled electrons, took the time to scribe on the
lovely day called 5/29/2004 8:31 AM the following important message }:~)
> I agree with all of this.  I have a couple of things to add, however.  The
> first is you probably shouldn't compare a 23" CRT with a 23" LCD.  The 23"
> LCD will have a display size of 23" diagonal.  The 23" CRT will have a
> "viewing area" of closer to 21" - 21.5" diagonal, and by the time you adju
st
> the height and width to get a circle to display as truly round you will
> probably be down another inch or so.  I don't intend this as a plug for
> LCDs, hoever, because they are not currently up to snuff for imagery.  You
> should take sizes into account, however.
>
> The other point is that I believe Sony is still making and will continue t
o
> make the Trinitron tube, which many other monitor and TV set manufacturers
> use.  I don't think it is quite as good as the Diamondtron when new, but i
t
> does seem to maintain it's color performance longer.
>
> Don
>

<Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com> wrote in message news:Ce8uc.74795$LB1.47167@newssvr25.news.prodig
y.com...
> Thanks, Don.  For larger monitors, the 22.5 VIS (viewable) seems to be
> the "standard".  Rick also feels that LCDs are not yet there for graphic
> work.  That's two for two in my book.
>
> What you said about color performance is the problem with my monitor.
> It has lost its ability to properly display darks, and the white looks
> like a soft blue.  It's test pattern shows no difference between the
> white and light blue.

Check the color temperature on the monitor.  It may have reverted
back to its factory default, which is likely 9300K.  If this is the case,
set it to 6500K and see if it fixes the problem(s).

Rick

> Don, using only recycled electrons, took the time to scribe on the
> lovely day called 5/29/2004 8:31 AM the following important message }:~) 
>

In article <Ce8uc.74795$LB1.47167@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com wrote:

> Thanks, Don.  For larger monitors, the 22.5 VIS (viewable) seems to be
> the "standard".  Rick also feels that LCDs are not yet there for graphic
> work.  That's two for two in my book.

Dorothy: Have you had the opportunity to use a Mac G5 with the 23 inch
display? Put aside for the moment the wintel vs. mac issue and consider
just the monitor (and video board). It's just downright _beautiful_. Now
add the Mac/OS-X system color management and it's unbeatable. Sure, such
screens have shorter lives than "CRT"s, but IMHO, it's worth it. Live
cheap or live well? If you have a choice, it's a no brainer. Besides, just
how long do you think you will keep your next tube? Chances are - not long
enough to make a difference.

Don't shoot me. It's just my x0 bits worth.

Rick, using only recycled electrons, took the time to scribe on the
lovely day called 5/29/2004 1:53 AM the following important message }:~)

> Stay at least ten feet away from any current HP product.  Their
> management has been gutting the company for the last three years.

Only ten? <G>
 
>
>
> LCDs are great for text and non-critical graphics work, but they
> still lack color gamut relative to higher-end CRTs.  Working with
> images with lots of near-blacks or near-whites is often an exercise
> in futility.  Also their backlights begin to fade within a year or two
> and will eventually fail altogether, like all other backlights.  Best
> not to invest a large sum of money into that technology IMO.


This is good to know.  All of the reviews of these LCDs that I found
were geared towards the home consumer, which made it hard to be better
informed.


 
>
>
> No.  Some are much better than others, but the issue remains.

Again, I guess this is because they are still geared towards the
consumer market.  What the heck, if the colors do not look good, they
can just play around with the controls until they like what they look
like for that game <G>.
 
>
>
> While it's only 22", Mitsubishi's 2070SB with their Diamondtron
> tube is one of the brightest consumer CRTs made (= largest color
> gamut), and can handle 1920x1200 without breaking a sweat.
> This tube is used by LaCie and others in addition to Mitsubishi's
> own models.
>
> Rick
>

Unfortunately, this model is "only" a 20" VIS.  Coming from a 22.5" VIS,
for me, it would be like trading in a Ferrari for a Yugo (well, okay,
maybe not a Yugo, but you get the point).  I actually tried masking off
my monitor to replicate this smaller size.  After a few hours, I had to
rip it off, as it was really bothering me not having all the real estate
I had grown used to.

I am going to do some searches for this tube and see if I can find it in
a larger model.  At least now I know I will stay away from the LCDs.

Thanks for your help,

Dorothy

email addy is munged

It was at 9300K, which is where it has been for a while now.  When I set
it back to 6500K, well, the whites turn creamy and muddled and the darks
are still extremely dark.

Over the 7 years I have had this monitor, I have mislaid the color
calibration unit.  But I do not really think this is the problem.  I
have played around with the brightness/contrast to no end in the last
couple of days to no avail.

Have a look at this photo:
http://home.netcom.com/~slepcevc/dv...ll%20Grotto.jpg

On my monitor, below the waterfall and the left hand branch, it is black
until you reach the stream where you can see a small area of green above
it.  There is the color green on the right hand side below the stream.
As for detail - what detail.  You cannot see any.  Now, if I look at it
on my notebook, I can almost see the detail of each leaf.

What do you see?

Dorothy


Rick, using only recycled electrons, took the time to scribe on the
lovely day called 5/29/2004 2:39 PM the following important message }:~)
> <Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com> wrote in message news:Ce8uc.74795$LB1.47167@news
svr25.news.prodigy.com...
> 
>
>
> Check the color temperature on the monitor.  It may have reverted
> back to its factory default, which is likely 9300K.  If this is the case,
> set it to 6500K and see if it fixes the problem(s).
>
> Rick
>
>

I have never had the opportunity to use a Mac.  I've just looked at them
from afar <G>.

I've had this monitor for 7 years now.  You could even say I am really,
really tired of looking at it!  So aside from the obvious problems and
difficulties in its recent performance, you could say I am not too sad
to see it go and get a new one.  This one has lost its brilliance.

Either that, or my eyes are getting old <G>.

But serious again, the Mac 23" LCD, as the others, only has 16.7M
colors.  CRTs offer 64M.

Dorothy


jjs, using only recycled electrons, took the time to scribe on the
lovely day called 5/29/2004 2:50 PM the following important message }:~)
> In article <Ce8uc.74795$LB1.47167@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
> Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Dorothy: Have you had the opportunity to use a Mac G5 with the 23 inch
> display? Put aside for the moment the wintel vs. mac issue and consider
> just the monitor (and video board). It's just downright _beautiful_. Now
> add the Mac/OS-X system color management and it's unbeatable. Sure, such
> screens have shorter lives than "CRT"s, but IMHO, it's worth it. Live
> cheap or live well? If you have a choice, it's a no brainer. Besides, just
> how long do you think you will keep your next tube? Chances are - not long
> enough to make a difference.
>
> Don't shoot me. It's just my x0 bits worth.

In article <lBauc.59917$gO6.15561@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>, Dorothy
<Dorothy@EmeraldCity.com> wrote:

> But serious again, the Mac 23" LCD, as the others, only has 16.7M
> colors.  CRTs offer 64M.

I don't mean to bait the self-aggrandizing but, of what use is more than
16.8M colors in print production in particular and anything else in
general?