I am evaluating Photoshop CS and Illustrator CS to compare them to Paint Sho
p
Pro.  It is clear that individually they are very powerful tools and offer
things that PSP can't do, however, the fact that PSP can handle vector objec
ts
and raster in the same application is a huge benefit.  Specifically, the abi
lity
to rotate, resize and reposition them in their own layer to blend it with ot
her
raster images and backgrounds.

I created a vector object in Illustrator and pasted it into PS.  I was able 
to
resize, etc without any loss in quality, but apparently this is the only cha
nce
you get to do so because you can't do anything else until you 'place' the
object.  I assume this rasterizes the vector object, and from that point on 
any
lossless deformation is impossible.  Is this true?

I have read that some people use Illustrator for this type of thing (instead
 of
doing all the work in PS) but frankly the raster manipulation is more import
ant
to me.

So I guess I'm saying that I am confused how to use these two applications
together effectively?

Billy wrote:

> It is clear that individually they are very powerful tools and
> offer things that PSP can't do, however, the fact that PSP can
> handle vector objects and raster in the same application is a
> huge benefit.

Photoshop can do that too.

> I created a vector object in Illustrator and pasted it into
> PS.  I was able to resize, etc without any loss in quality,
> but apparently this is the only chance you get to do so
> because you can't do anything else until you 'place' the
> object.  I assume this rasterizes the vector object, and from
> that point on any lossless deformation is impossible.  Is this
> true?

If you copy and paste from Illustrator CS to Photoshop CS, the
only thing you can do (by default) is to decide the size, skew,
perspective or rotation of the pasted graphic. When you have
decided that, you have pixels and not vectors.

If you in Illustrator goes to Edit > Preferences > File Handling
& Clipboard and check AICB Preserve Paths (or Appearance) instead
of PDF, you'll get some new options when you paste into Photoshop.
You can then choose between pixels, path and shape layer. I can
recommend that you take a look at the path tools and how shape
layers work in Photoshop Billy.

> I have read that some people use Illustrator for this type of
> thing (instead of doing all the work in PS) but frankly the
> raster manipulation is more important to me.

Well it depends on what you want to achieve. Illustrator has
superior vector functionality compared to Photoshop and
Photoshop has far better handle on pixels than Illustrator,
but both programs can handle both vectors and pixels at the
same time to some degree.

--
Regards
Madsen

>It is clear that individually they are very powerful tools and offer
>things that PSP can't do, however, the fact that PSP can handle vector obje
cts
>and raster in the same application is a huge benefit.  Specifically, the
>ability
>to rotate, resize and reposition them in their own layer to blend it with
>other raster images and backgrounds.

Photoshop has the ability to create vector layers, using the Pen, Line, and
Shape tools.

>I created a vector object in Illustrator and pasted it into PS.

Vector objects from Illustrator will always place or paste into Photoshop as
rasterized pixels, unless you copy a vector object and choose the "Paste as
Paths" option when you hit Paste in Photoshop. Any Illustrator file opened i
n
Photoshop will always be rasterized.

>I was able to
>resize, etc without any loss in quality, but apparently this is the only
>chance
>you get to do so because you can't do anything else until you 'place' the
>object.  I assume this rasterizes the vector object, and from that point
>on any
>lossless deformation is impossible.

You assume 100% correctly.

>So I guess I'm saying that I am confused how to use these two applications
>together effectively?

Create your raster elements in Photoshop; create your vector elements in
Illustrator; combine the two in Illustrator (or in a page layout program suc
h
as QuarkXPress). That's normal workflow for designs or page layouts containi
ng
both raster and vector elements.

--
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Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
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Thanks for the response.

>Photoshop can do that too.

Yes I see now that it can do 'shapes'.  But it seems that any
fills/gradients in the shape don't follow the rotation/deformation
until you "apply transformation".

>If you copy and paste from Illustrator CS to Photoshop CS, the
>only thing you can do (by default) is to decide the size, skew,
>perspective or rotation of the pasted graphic. When you have
>decided that, you have pixels and not vectors.

Sounds like it can't paste in objects from Illustrator as shapes then?

>If you in Illustrator goes to Edit > Preferences > File Handling
>& Clipboard and check AICB Preserve Paths (or Appearance) instead
>of PDF, you'll get some new options when you paste into Photoshop.
>You can then choose between pixels, path and shape layer. I can
>recommend that you take a look at the path tools and how shape
>layers work in Photoshop Billy.

When I tried this I still can't get the object to paste in as the
original vector image.  It either pastes in the same way as before
(pixels - meaning I still have to 'place' it and rasterize it), or if
I paste as path or shape layer it loses all of its gradients and
becomes wireframe.

Billy wrote:

> Sounds like it can't paste in objects from Illustrator as
> shapes then?

Not if you want to copy fills like gradients and such from
Illustrator to Photoshop. You can only copy the path either
as a "clean" path or as a shape layer. If you want to copy
the fill from Illustrator., you'll have to paste as pixels.

--
Regards
Madsen

Billy wrote:

> Sounds like it can't paste in objects from Illustrator as
> shapes then?

Not if you want to copy fills like gradients and such from
Illustrator to Photoshop. You can only copy the path either
as a "clean" path or as a shape layer. If you want to copy
the fill from Illustrator, you'll have to paste as pixels.

--
Regards
Madsen

>Yes I see now that it can do 'shapes'.  But it seems that any
>fills/gradients in the shape don't follow the rotation/deformation
>until you "apply transformation".

Correct. Photoshop is not intended as a replacement for vector illustration
programs like Illustrator.

>Sounds like it can't paste in objects from Illustrator as shapes then?

Not directly, no.

>When I tried this I still can't get the object to paste in as the
>original vector image.  It either pastes in the same way as before
>(pixels - meaning I still have to 'place' it and rasterize it), or if
>I paste as path or shape layer it loses all of its gradients and
>becomes wireframe.

Exactly. If you paste as paths, only the path is preserved; the stroke and f
ill
are not. Illustrator objects can not be placed and manipulated as vectors in
Photoshop.

--
Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html