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This is Interesting: Free Magazines for Graphics designers and webmasters
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Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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 01-16-06 - 12:21 AM 
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Hi all.
I'm a noob with PSP. I want to make some graphics for a website and
I'm starting with a nice simple logo. A 130 x 90 rectangular
background in a selected colour, in 72dpi for the web format.
On top of this I entered some text. I selected vector format, chose a
contrasting colour, used the Blue Ridge Heavy font and placed it as a
layer over the background.
Now this is supposed to be VECTOR text, yes? Well it looks more like
BBC micro at the moment with MASSIVE jaggies on it. So, what have I
done wrong? The help tells me how to move, select edit and more with
vector text, but not why it should be like this. I'm off to google,
but maybe the experts in here can give me some hints? Please? :)
Many thanks.
--
Regards from Mike and Jan Barnard.
South Coast, UK.
[To reply by email remove ".trousers" spamtrap from email address]
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 12:21 AM
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Mike Barnard wrote:
> Hi all.
> I'm a noob with PSP. I want to make some graphics for a website
> and I'm starting with a nice simple logo. A 130 x 90 rectangular
> background in a selected colour, in 72dpi for the web format.
> On top of this I entered some text. I selected vector format,
> chose a contrasting colour, used the Blue Ridge Heavy font and
> placed it as a layer over the background.
> Now this is supposed to be VECTOR text, yes? Well it looks more
> like BBC micro at the moment with MASSIVE jaggies on it. So,
> what have I done wrong? The help tells me how to move, select
> edit and more with vector text, but not why it should be like
> this. I'm off to google, but maybe the experts in here can give
> me some hints? Please? :)
> Many thanks.
You aren't telling which version of PSP and whether you checked
Anti-alias in the Text Tool Options Palette :-)
View, Palettes, Tool Options.
Joske
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 12:21 AM
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Mike Barnard wrote:
> I'm a noob with PSP. I want to make some graphics for a
> website and I'm starting with a nice simple logo. A 130 x
> 90 rectangular background in a selected colour, in 72dpi
> for the web format.
>
> On top of this I entered some text. I selected vector
> format, chose a contrasting colour, used the Blue Ridge
> Heavy font and placed it as a layer over the background.
>
> Now this is supposed to be VECTOR text, yes? Well it looks
> more like BBC micro at the moment with MASSIVE jaggies on
> it. So, what have I done wrong?
Hi Mike,
First, please forget the "72dpi," by which I assume you means 72
pixels per inch, or PPI. That is completely irrelevant for use on
the web. (It is strictly for printing, where it says how many pixels
to print on each inch of paper.) The relevant measure for anything
to be displayed on a monitor is pixels.
Some programs do indeed smooth vector text to the screen on which
you edit it. Even when you zoom in, the text stays smooth. However,
PSP displays your text as it will appear on that web page, when zoom
= 100%. When you zoom in more, you see the individual pixels
magnified, which is often useful for delicate editing.
What is the size of your text in pixels? Choose Units = Pixels on
the Tool Options palette. For now, I will guess from the small size
of your rectangle that it is 20 pixels or less. The jaggies you see
are the pixels of the small grid on which the character is drawn.
You can tell PSP to blend the pixels around the edges of the
character, a technique called anti-aliasing. It reduces the jaggies
by blurring the edges. Experiment with it by selecting all the text
in Text Entry box and picking Anti-alias = Sharp or = Smooth in the
Tool Options palette. The smaller the text, the less anti-alias it
can stand before the edges become too blurry.
For good-looking small text, choose a font designed for monitor
display. Verdana is one. Serif fonts in general do poorly.
Beyond choosing a good font and anti-aliasing, the only other way to
make text look better is to make it bigger, using more pixels to
render it.
This is a characteristic of all monitor displays. Small text may
look really nice in Illustrator (for example), but the jaggies will
appear when it's converted to GIF (again for example) to display on
your small rectangle. PSP shows you how it will look while you are
editing it. Set zoom to 100% to see it the way your readers will see
it.
--
Fred Hiltz, fhiltz at yahoo dot com
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 12:21 AM
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In article <6ofks1h84p0j80gv2auqlp5rsv27cq2md6@4ax.com>,
Mike Barnard <m.barnard.trousers@thunderin.co.uk> wrote:
> Now this is supposed to be VECTOR text, yes? Well it looks more like
> BBC micro at the moment with MASSIVE jaggies on it. So, what have I
> done wrong? The help tells me how to move, select edit and more with
> vector text, but not why it should be like this. I'm off to google,
> but maybe the experts in here can give me some hints? Please? :)
> Many thanks.
> Regards from Mike and Jan Barnard.
> South Coast, UK.
I'm a bit confused Mike, as probably will be our other side of the pond
cousins with regard to the BBC Micro.
I started computing with one of them in late 1982, how using the Vector
application !Draw did you manage to get massive jaggies?
I still have a RISC PC running here, I've done a bit 'O text in Homerton,
converted to Path then zoomed it way up, no noticeable jaggies.
Cheers
Dave S
Also on the South Coast UK. The place name begins with "B" and is noted
for a lot of old folks retiring here.
Clue... Was in Hants, now in Dorset.
D.
--
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 11:45 PM
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:27:24 +0000 (GMT), Dave Symes
<dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote:
>I'm a bit confused Mike, as probably will be our other side of the pond
>cousins with regard to the BBC Micro.
Just an eaxmple of low resolution graphics. Not ideal I agree.
>I started computing with one of them in late 1982, how using the Vector
>application !Draw did you manage to get massive jaggies?
!Draw? Wot?
>I still have a RISC PC running here, I've done a bit 'O text in Homerton,
>converted to Path then zoomed it way up, no noticeable jaggies.
Whoosh!
>Cheers
>Dave S
>Also on the South Coast UK. The place name begins with "B" and is noted
>for a lot of old folks retiring here.
>Clue... Was in Hants, now in Dorset.
>D.
Been there, Jan and I were bored to tears. Couldn't find a decent pub
for a meal / drink and got stuck in some place that looked like a
failed jazz bar. Near an area of samnd dunes, IIRC.
--
Regards from Mike, Jan and Master Alex Barnard.
South Coast, UK.
[To reply by email remove ".trousers" spamtrap from email address]
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
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1 GB/Day for only $8.95
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 11:45 PM
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:37:44 -0500, "Fred Hiltz" <not@home.ca> wrote:
Hi.
>First, please forget the "72dpi," by which I assume you means 72
>pixels per inch, or PPI. That is completely irrelevant for use on
>the web. (It is strictly for printing, where it says how many pixels
>to print on each inch of paper.) The relevant measure for anything
>to be displayed on a monitor is pixels.
True, I should have said "ppi" But working in 72ppi is I believe the
standard for a monitor resolution...
"The density of pixels per inch (ppi) is called image resolution.
Although there is variation between monitors, the rule of thumb is
that screen resolution is 72 ppi. This means that all images used for
the Web should have an image resolution of 72 ppi."
http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/19997/0/page/6
Just one of the first links I googled for, but true.
>Some programs do indeed smooth vector text to the screen on which
>you edit it. Even when you zoom in, the text stays smooth. However,
>PSP displays your text as it will appear on that web page, when zoom
Aha, light dawns!
>= 100%. When you zoom in more, you see the individual pixels
>magnified, which is often useful for delicate editing.
I said noob, didn't I! :)
>What is the size of your text in pixels? Choose Units = Pixels on
18. My text settings for this logo were...
Vector / blue ridge heavy / 18 / 0.0 / AA off / centre / bold
The text was put on a 130 x 90 x 72*P*pi oloured raster background.
>the Tool Options palette. For now, I will guess from the small size
>of your rectangle that it is 20 pixels or less. The jaggies you see
>are the pixels of the small grid on which the character is drawn.
Wrong expectations from me, really.
>You can tell PSP to blend the pixels around the edges of the
>character, a technique called anti-aliasing. It reduces the jaggies
>by blurring the edges. Experiment with it by selecting all the text
>in Text Entry box and picking Anti-alias = Sharp or = Smooth in the
>Tool Options palette. The smaller the text, the less anti-alias it
>can stand before the edges become too blurry.
http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003noalias.gif
http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003alias.gif
>For good-looking small text, choose a font designed for monitor
>display. Verdana is one. Serif fonts in general do poorly.
Aha, good tip. Will Google on this, thanks.
>Beyond choosing a good font and anti-aliasing, the only other way to
>make text look better is to make it bigger, using more pixels to
>render it.
>This is a characteristic of all monitor displays. Small text may
>look really nice in Illustrator (for example), but the jaggies will
>appear when it's converted to GIF (again for example) to display on
>your small rectangle. PSP shows you how it will look while you are
>editing it. Set zoom to 100% to see it the way your readers will see
>it.
Much useful information. Many, many thanks.
--
Regards from Mike, Jan and Master Alex Barnard.
South Coast, UK.
[To reply by email remove ".trousers" spamtrap from email address]
--
The Source For Premium Newsgroup Access
Great Speed, Great Retention
1 GB/Day for only $8.95
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 11:45 PM
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Mike Barnard <m.barnard.trousers@thunderin.co.uk> wrote in
news:k4hns15thchpt25j9rcqopcsko29561lr9@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:37:44 -0500, "Fred Hiltz" <not@home.ca>
wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
72
on
pixels
anything
>
> True, I should have said "ppi" But working in 72ppi is I
believe the
> standard for a monitor resolution...
>
> "The density of pixels per inch (ppi) is called image
resolution.
> Although there is variation between monitors, the rule of thumb
is
> that screen resolution is 72 ppi. This means that all images
used for
> the Web should have an image resolution of 72 ppi."
>
> http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/19997/0/page/6
>
> Just one of the first links I googled for, but true.
>
Whether it's one of the first links you googled or not, it's not
accurate at all. Any image displayed on your web browser is a
certain number of pixels wide and a certain number of pixels
high, period. If you create it 800 pixels wide and 400 pixels
high that is how many pixels it will display on a monitor. A
monitor set to a display resolution of 800 by 600 will, if
viewing the image full screen without scroll bars, menus, ect.
will show the image fitting the screen horizonatlly and filling
two thirds of the screen vertically, regardless of the ppi
information.
On the other hand, if the ppi is set to 200ppi, then when you
send the image to the printer this will tell the printer to print
200 pixels for each inch of printed paper, resulting in an image
that is 4 inches wide and 2 inches high. Set the ppi to 400 and
you'll get a printed image 2" by 1". However, the image will not
change size when viewed on the screen nor will it increase or
decrease in file size when saved no matter what ppi you set.
PPI and DPI are two separate and different concepts, the first
applying to image print size and the second applying to how a
printer places ink dots on paper.
If you want a better understanding of ppi, you can check out
these pages:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1790570,00.asp
Understanding ppi and dpi:
http://www.photo.net/learn/resize/
Regards,
JoeB
which
However,
zoom
>
> Aha, light dawns!
>
>
> I said noob, didn't I! :)
>
on
>
> 18. My text settings for this logo were...
>
> Vector / blue ridge heavy / 18 / 0.0 / AA off / centre / bold
> The text was put on a 130 x 90 x 72*P*pi oloured raster
background.
>
size
see
drawn.
>
> Wrong expectations from me, really.
>
jaggies
text
the
it
>
> http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003noalias.gif
> http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003alias.gif
>
>
> Aha, good tip. Will Google on this, thanks.
>
way to
to
>
may
will
display on
are
will see
>
> Much useful information. Many, many thanks.
>
>
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-16-06 - 11:45 PM
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Mike Barnard wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:37:44 -0500, "Fred Hiltz"
> <not@home.ca> wrote:
>
> True, I should have said "ppi" But working in 72ppi is I
> believe the standard for a monitor resolution...
>
> "The density of pixels per inch (ppi) is called image
> resolution. Although there is variation between monitors,
> the rule of thumb is that screen resolution is 72 ppi. This
> means that all images used for the Web should have an image
> resolution of 72 ppi."
>
> http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/19997/0/page/6
>
> Just one of the first links I googled for, but true.
No. It is wrong. As Joe writes, this is a common misconception. You
need not believe me that the relevant measure for monitor display is
pixels, not inches. You need not believe the references that Joe
provides, either. Why? Because you can easily find out for yourself
by creating two images that differ only in their PPI value and
examining them on a monitor.
1. File > New. Set Width = 400, Height = 300, Units = Pixels,
Resolution = 72 Pixels/inch, Raster Background, Color depth = 16
Million, Color = Red. Save this image as Test72.jpg. (Use GIF format
if you prefer.)
2. File > New. Set everything the same except Resolution = 1000
Pixels/inch. Save this image a Test1000.jpg. (Or GIF)
3. Open Windows Explorer (My Computer) and your favorite browser.
Drag Test72.jpg from where you saved it into your browser window.
Now drag Test 1000.jpg into the same browser window. Which one is
larger? Does PPI matter for display on a monitor?
--
Fred Hiltz, fhiltz at yahoo dot com
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Re: Vector text has massive jaggies! Why? |
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01-17-06 - 04:10 AM
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Mike Barnard wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:37:44 -0500, "Fred Hiltz" <not@home.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
>
> True, I should have said "ppi" But working in 72ppi is I believe the
> standard for a monitor resolution...
>
> "The density of pixels per inch (ppi) is called image resolution.
> Although there is variation between monitors, the rule of thumb is
> that screen resolution is 72 ppi. This means that all images used for
> the Web should have an image resolution of 72 ppi."
>
> http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/19997/0/page/6
>
> Just one of the first links I googled for, but true.
>
>
> Aha, light dawns!
>
>
> I said noob, didn't I! :)
>
>
> 18. My text settings for this logo were...
>
> Vector / blue ridge heavy / 18 / 0.0 / AA off / centre / bold
> The text was put on a 130 x 90 x 72*P*pi oloured raster background.
>
>
> Wrong expectations from me, really.
>
>
> http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003noalias.gif
> http://www.thunderin.co.uk/odds/logo003alias.gif
>
>
> Aha, good tip. Will Google on this, thanks.
>
>
>
> Much useful information. Many, many thanks.
>
>
> --
> Regards from Mike, Jan and Master Alex Barnard.
> South Coast, UK.
>
> [To reply by email remove ".trousers" spamtrap from email address]
Another good link in addition to Joe and Fred's is
http://www.scantips.com/no72dpi.html.
Some applications use the ppi of an image to try (fairly inaccurately)
to match the size you would see printed. When they do this they also use
the value for Windows screen resolution that you can find at Control
Panel > Display Properties > Settings tab > Advanced button > General
Tab... mostly this will be 96ppi (which Microsoft likes to call dpi).
An example of an application that uses Windows screen resolution is
Microsoft Word. If you put it in Print Layout View, you'll see a display
that mimics a sheet of paper. If the Zoom level is set to 100% the width
of this sheet of paper should match the paper size in File > Page Setup.
But it rarely does. For instance, on this computer the paper is set to
be A4 and should show as 210 mm wide on screen, but it is actually 251
mm. Why? Well despite the Windows screen resolution being set to 96ppi,
my monitor, which is nominally a 17 inch with a viewable 16 inch
diagonal, is 12.8 wide x 9.8 high and runs at 1024 x 768 pixels and so
has a horizontal resolution of 1024/12.8 = 80 ppi and a vertical
resolution of 768/9.8 = 78.4. If I divide the actual Word page width of
251mm by the nominal Windows screen resolution (96ppi) and multiply by
the real screen resolution (80ppi) I get 209.2mm... very close to the
real A4 page width.
There is only one place in Paint Shop Pro that the resolution of the
image effects what is shown on screen. This is only in PSP X when the
font size is set in points. Then the size of the text applied to images
of different resolutions will be different sizes on screen, but when the
images are printed out, the images will be different sizes, but the text
on each will be the same size and will be about the same size as text of
the same point size printed from a word processor.
--
Tim
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