Hello,

When I was making yet another futile attempt at calibrating my monitor, I
caused an unwanted behavior.  Specifically, when I save an image in PS (CS),
the saved copy is lighter in color (higher gamma?) than the image was when
in photoshop itself.

This is recent, and I caused it yesterday when I was messing with the color
settings.  I have disabled Adobe Gamma loader from starting at bootup, and
tried different color settings, but this is still occuring.

What is the setting that is causing this behavior?

Thanks,

Jon

"Jon Danniken"
> Hello,
>
> When I was making yet another futile attempt at calibrating my monitor, I
> caused an unwanted behavior.  Specifically, when I save an image in PS
(CS),
> the saved copy is lighter in color (higher gamma?) than the image was when
> in photoshop itself.
>
> This is recent, and I caused it yesterday when I was messing with the
color
> settings.  I have disabled Adobe Gamma loader from starting at bootup, and
> tried different color settings, but this is still occuring.
>
> What is the setting that is causing this behavior?

Here is an example of what I am talking about; sorry I didn't include it in
the original:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/2682/pscolor8uy.jpg

The image on the left is how it looks in PS, the one the right is how it
looks when I go to save it.

Jon

"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40un9qF1c9h32U1@individual.net...
> Hello,
>
> When I was making yet another futile attempt at calibrating my monitor, I
> caused an unwanted behavior.  Specifically, when I save an image in PS
> (CS),
> the saved copy is lighter in color (higher gamma?) than the image was when
> in photoshop itself.
>
> This is recent, and I caused it yesterday when I was messing with the
> color
> settings.  I have disabled Adobe Gamma loader from starting at bootup, and
> tried different color settings, but this is still occuring.
>
> What is the setting that is causing this behavior?

Probably the Desired Gamma setting.  Use "Windows Default" to set a gamma of
2.2.

--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

"Mike Russell" wrote:
> "Jon Danniken" wrote: 
I 
when 
and 
>
> Probably the Desired Gamma setting.  Use "Windows Default" to set a gamma
of
> 2.2.

Thanks, Mike, but the problem occurs when I *do* use the 2.2 gamma (or any
other "user specifiec" gamma setting through Adobe Gamma)..  Only when I go
into system32/spool/color/ and delete the *.icc I created does this problem
go away.

I like the idea of setting up my monitor to a calibrated space, but why when
I do this is my output different than what I am working on?  In other words,
why would I want to work on something  in PS only to have the levels flip
all over the place when it is output?

Confused,

Jon

"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
...
> Thanks, Mike, but the problem occurs when I *do* use the 2.2 gamma (or any
> other "user specifiec" gamma setting through Adobe Gamma)..

Here's another possibility: you may have your RGB working space's gamma set
to something other than 2.2.  Type ctrl-shift-K and look at your RGB Working
space.  Set it to sRGB for the time being.

> Only when I gointo system32/spool/color/ and delete the *.icc I created
> does this problem go away.

I haven't tried this, but I would expect Photoshop would behave as if it
were a non color-aware app.

> I like the idea of setting up my monitor to a calibrated space, but why
> when
> I do this is my output different than what I am working on?  In other
> words,
> why would I want to work on something  in PS only to have the levels flip
> all over the place when it is output?

You have the logic backwards.  The levels are being changed systematically
so that the appearance is the same, if (and only if) you have an accurate
monitor profile.  Before Photoshop knew about working color spaces, the same
image would look lighter on the Mac than on the PC.  Now that Photoshop is
color aware, the image can be converted from the working space to the
display space, resulting in the same image appearance on the PC and the Mac.

This works, but programs other than Photoshop have failed to follow suit,
for a variety of good reasons.  The result is that many images look
different in Photoshop than they do in non color managed applications.  This
is only a problem if your images are destined for the web, or if you are
going to share your RGB images with others and there is a chance they may
use them outside of Photoshop.
--

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

> Jon writes ...
>
>when I save an image in PS (CS), the saved copy is lighter
>in color (higher gamma?) than the image was when in photoshop
>itself.

I've helped several people track down problems like this and in *every*
case so far it was caused by a bad (inaccurate) monitor profile.

Regenerate the profile from scratch and see if that fixes it.

> Only when I go into system32/spool/color/ and delete the *.icc I
> created does this problem go away.

Just generate a new profile.

Bill

"Bill Hilton" <bhilton665@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1135268611.624713.287720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... 
>
> I've helped several people track down problems like this and in *every*
> case so far it was caused by a bad (inaccurate) monitor profile.
>
> Regenerate the profile from scratch and see if that fixes it.
> 
>
> Just generate a new profile.
>
> Bill
>
Furthermore, the fact that the problem goes away after you have deleted the
icc file is further indication that the profile is bad.

And, previously, the OP said that he delete Adobe Gamma Loader.  The purpose
of Adobe Gamma Loader is to load the custom profile into the graphics
driver.  Hence, if you delete the loader, it cannot load the profile thus
you will get a problem where the image looks good until you exit PS.
I use Monaco because I really don't trust my eyesight to get a good profile.
This was especially the case before I had cataract surgery.
Jim

"Mike Russell" wrote:
> "Jon Danniken" wrote in message
> ... 
any 
>
> Here's another possibility: you may have your RGB working space's gamma
set
> to something other than 2.2.  Type ctrl-shift-K and look at your RGB
Working
> space.  Set it to sRGB for the time being.


Thanks Mike; it is set to sRGB IEC 61966-2.1, but I still have the issue of
the image looking different when I go to save it.

I realize I am missing out on a crucial (and likely very simple) concept
here, and I apologize for my stupidity.

Regardless of how my monitor is set up, I do not understand *why* Photoshop
changes the appearance of an image
*while still in Photoshop*, when it is viewed in the saving window.

I do not understand why it is that Photoshop wants to change the levels of
an
image when it is saved, and why it doesn't save it looking the same way that
I see it while I am working on it.

Hopefully it will make sense at some point, but right now it just isn't.

Thanks though,

Jon

From: "Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com>
[re image being darker outside of Photoshop]

> Thanks Mike; it is set to sRGB IEC 61966-2.1, but I still have the issue
> of
> the image looking different when I go to save it.
>
> I realize I am missing out on a crucial (and likely very simple) concept
> here, and I apologize for my stupidity.

You're obviously not stupid.  At some point in the future, not many years
away, color management will be dirt simple.  Right now it's not, and there
is a large amount of frustration out there.  In fact, it's a real mess, and
there are about 32 different ways to set it up incorrectly - you have simply
found one of them.

> Regardless of how my monitor is set up, I do not understand *why*
> Photoshop
> changes the appearance of an image *while still in Photoshop*, when it is
> viewed
> in the saving window.

Photoshop is designed to display the image in a consisistent way on all
monitors.  To accomplish this, you must have a correct monitor profile, and
the colors must be altered sightly to compensate for your monitor.

> I do not understand why it is that Photoshop wants to change the levels of
> an  image when it is saved, and why it doesn't save it looking the same
> way that
> I see it while I am working on it.

You can use Photoshop this way if you disable color management.  Select
"Color Management Off" in the Color Settings dialog.  There is nothing wrong
with this, except that you will be swimming hard against the tide of
convention.  Up to, but not including version 5.0 this was how everyone used
Photoshop.  Although you can do high quality work this way, you may run into
problems when you share your images with others.  Much excellent work was
done before color management - a large fraction of all digital publishing,
and no one complained.

> Hopefully it will make sense at some point, but right now it just isn't.

OK - here's another thing to try.  You may have saved on top of your sRGB
profile, when you used Adobe Gamma to save your screen profile.  Download a
fresh copy from Adobe,
http://www.adobe.com/support/downlo....jsp?ftpID=3148

Then install it in the color folder, and see if things start behaving
themselves.
On my system the color folder is C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color,
YMMV.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 31
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:57:50 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.192.231
X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1135346270 12.76.192.231 (Fri, 2
3 Dec 2005 13:57:50 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:57:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.graphics.apps.photoshop:305021

Mike Russell wrote:
>
> From: "Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com>
> [re image being darker outside of Photoshop]
> 
>
> You're obviously not stupid.  At some point in the future, not many years
> away, color management will be dirt simple.  Right now it's not, and there
> is a large amount of frustration out there.  In fact, it's a real mess, an
d
> there are about 32 different ways to set it up incorrectly - you have simp
ly
> found one of them.

You are overly optimistic. If (not when) color management should become
"dirt simple" (and dirt cheap), many of us would either have gone broke
(from all $$$$$ we wasted on it), or have been locked up in a mental
institution (from the frustration of trying).

Here's my take. There are technical challenges to get color management
right, simple and cheap. And many digital imagers do not need it to
begin with. But Adobe and many vendors not only DELIBERATELY turn color
management into a nightmare, but also try to convince every user that
they need it. Why? To keep revising their products to make ONLY
incremental changes to bait the users. It is their business model to get
the users to keep "upgrading" the sw and hw, and keep wasting consumable
in making test prints.