Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later
purchased by Google (2001?). They are have been the primary archivers
of newsgroups ever since. Upon the introduction of DejaNews, a lot
of people protested for privacy, and DejaNews introduced X-No-Archive
to sort of address those concerns. What they didn't address is that regardle
ss
of X-No-Archive, archiving newsgroups (all groups) should be illegal by
concept. Privacy rights. A discussion forum is that, a discussion,
and archiving discussions annoys people. Maybe you are used to hear
that appologetic warning when phone companies warn that your call may
be monitored for quality assurrance reasons. People are offended by being
recorded, as that creates an Orwellian 1984 atmosphere. It violates
people's deepest human rights. Its privacy that is being violated, and Googl
e
Groups Beta stands for something inhuman for discussion forums. These
disgusting telemarketing businesses should be, you know, something about,
like they are assholes.

> Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later
> purchased by Google (2001?). They are have been the primary archivers
> of newsgroups ever since. Upon the introduction of DejaNews, a lot
> of people protested for privacy, and DejaNews introduced X-No-Archive
> to sort of address those concerns. What they didn't address is that regard
less
> of X-No-Archive, archiving newsgroups (all groups) should be illegal by
> concept. Privacy rights. A discussion forum is that, a discussion,
> and archiving discussions annoys people. Maybe you are used to hear
> that appologetic warning when phone companies warn that your call may
> be monitored for quality assurrance reasons. People are offended by being
> recorded, as that creates an Orwellian 1984 atmosphere. It violates
> people's deepest human rights. Its privacy that is being violated, and Goo
gle
> Groups Beta stands for something inhuman for discussion forums. These
> disgusting telemarketing businesses should be, you know, something about,
> like they are assholes.

There are some positives about newsgroup archiving, seeking questions for
work related issues in newsgroup archives, or specific discussions. But
the idea is corrupt, as a discussion forum is conducted mostly by people
sitting privacy of their own homes, and being archived intrudes on such
people's privacy. If people discuss matters in newsgroup at work and they
are specialized discussions, there should be no problem in archiving those.
However, that is not the general case. People's privacy is being intruded on
with Google Groups Beta, and that violates human rights, and there should
be opposition by the intelligent people to not allow, ah, assholes, such, yo
u
know, privacy violation of the first degree of the educated by the, you
know, evil marketers.

> > Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later 
>
> There are some positives about newsgroup archiving, seeking questions for
> work related issues in newsgroup archives, or specific discussions. But
> the idea is corrupt, as a discussion forum is conducted mostly by people
> sitting in their privacy of their own homes, and being archived intrudes o
n
> such people's privacy. If people discuss matters in newsgroup at work and
> they are specialized discussions, there should be no problem in archiving 
those.
> However, that is not the general case. People's privacy is being intruded 
on
> with Google Groups Beta, and that violates human rights, and there should
> be opposition by the intelligent people to not allow, ah, assholes, such, 
you
> know, privacy violation of the first degree of the educated by the, you
> know, evil marketers.

We all know evil marketers and spammers. We hate them. They are like
Russians, because they are poor people, and they have to do such dirty busin
ess.

> > > Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later 
>
> We all know evil marketers and spammers. We hate them. They are like
> Russians, because they are poor people, and they have to do such dirty business.[/
color]

There are books about Google, but nobody writes about their horrible Groups
marketing scam. Like a dark evil castle, it infringes privacy, betrays human
ity
with its money first approach (though Google's search engine is described as
technology first compared to people driven Yahoo), topics ignores Google
Group Beta's humanly guilty Ceaucescu's street cameras over people with
its ignorant colossal financial technology, a common realization: a monster.
s

pr wrote:

> Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later
> purchased by Google (2001?).

Correct, they were acquired by Google in February 2001.

> They are have been the primary archivers
> of newsgroups ever since. Upon the introduction of DejaNews, a lot
> of people protested for privacy, and DejaNews introduced X-No-Archive
> to sort of address those concerns. What they didn't address is that
> regardless of X-No-Archive, archiving newsgroups (all groups) should
> be illegal by concept. Privacy rights.

Consider a newsgroup post an opinion article in a newspaper. What are
you going to do then? Ask everybody who purchases a newspaper not to
archive the newspaper or perhaps even rip out the opinion pages in that
newspaper before archiving it? Heck, I could even set up an Usenet
server at home for myself and archive everything posted on the Usenet.

Thing is, what's posted on Usenet, stays on Usenet. If you don't want
an article you wrote stored for all eternity, then don't write it at
all.

> A discussion forum is that, a
> discussion, and archiving discussions annoys people. Maybe you are
> used to hear that appologetic warning when phone companies warn that
> your call may be monitored for quality assurrance reasons. People are
> offended by being recorded, as that creates an Orwellian 1984
> atmosphere. It violates people's deepest human rights.

What about phone books, then? Don't they also violate your privacy
rights? Phone books include your home address and phone number, and
anyone with access to a phone book will have access to your home
address.

If you're worried about your privacy, then don't post on Usenet (or use
the Internet at all, for that matter), don't have a phone, don't have a
job, don't have a physical address, which narrows it down to living in
a cave out in a desert somewhere. Or a jungle.

> Its privacy
> that is being violated, and Google Groups Beta stands for something
> inhuman for discussion forums. These disgusting telemarketing
> businesses should be, you know, something about, like they are
> assholes.

Once again, that's one of the unwritten rules when using Usenet. What
you post, may or may not be stored for all eternity. The consensus is
that the X-No-Archive function for those who only want their posts
stored for a short amount of time.

And please refrain from complaining about this on Usenet. If you're
really that concerned about your own privacy, talk to a lawyer about
forcing Google Groups into removing your posts. Seriously, we don't
want to hear about it.

--
Kim André Akerø
- kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)

> > > > Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later 
>
> There are books about Google, but nobody writes about their horrible Group
s
> marketing scam. Like a dark evil castle, it infringes privacy, betrays hum
anity
> with its money first approach (though Google's search engine is described 
as
> technology first compared to people driven Yahoo), topics ignores Google
> Group Beta's humanly guilty Ceaucescu's street cameras over people with
> its ignorant colossal financial technology, a common realization: a monster.[/colo
r]

It infringes into our daily lives like Lida Hill (daughter of the Hunt ketch
up family)
on Garden of the Gods National Park in colorado Springs. A public national p
ark,
and she moved in. First she build a house, seeing the park from its first ro
w seat.
Then she built a country club next to her home. Then she decided to establis
h
a "unique public/private relation", taking over running the entire national 
park herself.
She threw out the government business and built a manhattan tourist center, 
destroying
a large area of the natural park territory with colossal parking lots. Milli
ons visit
this park each year, there was a lot of money to make on a public property (
like
Newsgroups). She moved in, and at night from her backyard she reflects with 
a
large soccer stadium lamp on one of the highlights of the national park for 
her romantic
nights. When she moves in, she moves in, and nobody can stop the Repub. Duri
ng
her overtaking, she cut out a unique thousand year old tree at night so the 
protesters
wouldn't stop her. When the Repubs are coming, they are coming and they are
Google, establishing unique public/private relations over public properties.
 Ceaucescu
modeled his dictatorial visions for his country at the time after the USA, d
estroying
thousand year old cultures, just to dig up villages for a modern industrial 
landscape.

Google Groups Beta is Crimes Against Humanity.

"pr" <pr@pr.com> writes:

> Newsgroups have been archived since 1995 by DejaNews, later
> purchased by Google (2001?). They are have been the primary
> archivers of newsgroups ever since. Upon the introduction of
> DejaNews, a lot of people protested for privacy, and DejaNews
> introduced X-No-Archive to sort of address those concerns. What they
> didn't address is that regardless of X-No-Archive, archiving
> newsgroups (all groups) should be illegal by concept. Privacy
> rights. A discussion forum is that, a discussion, and archiving
> discussions annoys people. Maybe you are used to hear that
> appologetic warning when phone companies warn that your call may be
> monitored for quality assurrance reasons. People are offended by
> being recorded, as that creates an Orwellian 1984 atmosphere. It
> violates people's deepest human rights. Its privacy that is being
> violated, and Google Groups Beta stands for something inhuman for
> discussion forums. These disgusting telemarketing businesses should
> be, you know, something about, like they are assholes.

It's not phone companies who monitor those calls; that's a notice from
the company you are calling that they will monitor their employees
(order taking or tech support most commonly).

I'm very, very happy that Deja News started archiving newsgroups, and
very glad that Google continues to do so.  I wish the archives
extended back to the beginning, and was more complete for the early
years.  Any individual has an equal right to keep copies of the
postings as they go by, but I didn't have a full newsfeed and enough
storage space, and didn't get organized to archive the groups I was
interested in, back then.  I'm very glad somebody did it for me.

The legalities are a much stickier question.  The argument *for*
Google is that anything submitted to Usenet was clearly intended to be
propagated to all sites, and nobody ever had any kind of guarantee on
what the expire time on those sites would be.  The postings would be
available from a news server until they expired there.  Google is
essentially running a news server with an infinite expire time.
Whether that's *legally* good enough -- hasn't been tested yet; which
is an answer in and of itself, to some extent.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAl.../dragaera.info/>

Kim André Akerø wrote:
> pr wrote:
> 
>
> Correct, they were acquired by Google in February 2001.

It's the Google Crank, again.  Killfile readjustment time!


--
Blinky                               Linux Registered User 297263
Killing All Posts from GG:     http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.htm

Blinky the Shark wrote:

> It's the Google Crank, again.  Killfile readjustment time!

It was still in my killfile. His IP changes much less than his handle.

--
Els                     http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Gary Moore - Parisienne Walkways (Live)

Els wrote:
> Blinky the Shark wrote:
> 
>
> It was still in my killfile. His IP changes much less than his handle.

The server's XOVER database does not include fields that contain IP:

<paste XOVER exchange from telnet session with server>

xover 359048
224 359048 fields follow
359048  Tired of Google Groups archiving        "pr" <pr@pr.com>
Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:26:20 -0600 <d%IZe.67$5u3.1344@news.uswest.net>
1732    17      Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.www.webmaster:359048

</paste>

Thus, to filter on a header that includes his IP requires use of XHDR
command:

<paste XHDR exchange from telnet session with server>

xhdr NNTP-Posting-Host  <d%IZe.67$5u3.1344@news.uswest.net>
221 0 NNTP-Posting-Host header of article <d%IZe.67$5u3.1344@news.uswest.net
>.
<d%IZe.67$5u3.1344@news.uswest.net> 151.118.0.21

</paste>

And this is "expensive" filtering, because it requires a separate
request for XHDR headers.  On a dialup, that's very time consuming and
not acceptable.  So that's not an option for some of us.


--
Blinky                               Linux Registered User 297263
Killing All Posts from GG:    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html