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scanned images soft - why ?
 

frankg




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
Why are scanned images invariably soft (out-of-focus)? It doesnt matter if
the original is film (neg or transparency) or print.Can you explain it ?

I have a good film scanner (Polaroid 120) and Silverfast Ai software (which
has a focus on/off).
My flatbed is somewhat older (Microtek Scanmaker III with Scanwizard) but
still decent.

When I open the images in Photoshop I'm always disappointed in how 'soft'
they are and they Always need sharpening applied.

Apparently 'it's a fact of life' but why ?




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Tom Thomas




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
"frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com> wrote:

>Why are scanned images invariably soft (out-of-focus)? It doesnt matter if
>the original is film (neg or transparency) or print.Can you explain it ?

-- snip --

This is more related to the scanner groups than Photoshop but here's a
stab at it.

Essentially any analog to digital conversion loses fidelity because
the digital copy is produced from samples rather than a continuous
signal.  In the case of a scanner, it's samples at approximately 1,000
per inch are not as sharp as the continuous tones produced by a good
camera lens [1].  This is analagous to digitally sampled music (CD)
compared to analog recording (audio tape or vinyl).  The analog
version contains many subtle overtones and inflections which are lost
in the "stair step" effect of digital sampling.  We accept audio CD as
a medium because of its compactness, portability and durability -- not
because it produces better sound.

You might enjoy looking at Wayne Fulton's web site, www.scantips.com .
He provides a lot of information on why scanners behave as they do,
and how to compensate.

[1] Information paraphrased from the aforementioned www.scantips.com .


-------------------------------
Tom

Unsolicited advertisements cheerfully ignored.


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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Stephan




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
"frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:h6Y6d.20537$MD5.1040394@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Why are scanned images invariably soft (out-of-focus)? It doesnt matter if
> the original is film (neg or transparency) or print.Can you explain it ?
>
> I have a good film scanner (Polaroid 120) and Silverfast Ai software
(which
> has a focus on/off).
> My flatbed is somewhat older (Microtek Scanmaker III with Scanwizard) but
> still decent.
>
> When I open the images in Photoshop I'm always disappointed in how 'soft'
> they are and they Always need sharpening applied.
>
> Apparently 'it's a fact of life' but why ?
>

Do you check sharpness with your picture open a 100% of its size?

Stephan




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

frankg




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
yes

--
xx
"Stephan" <NoMoreSpam@Thank.you> wrote in message
news:pp07d.414$o27.151@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com> wrote in message
> news:h6Y6d.20537$MD5.1040394@news20.bellglobal.com... 
if 
> (which 
but 
'soft' 
>
> Do you check sharpness with your picture open a 100% of its size?
>
> Stephan
>
>




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

jjs




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
"Stephan" <NoMoreSpam@Thank.you> wrote in message
news:pp07d.414$o27.151@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Do you check sharpness with your picture open a 100% of its size?

Well, of course. And they just suck. The scanners that we modestly incomed
people can afford just suck. They ALL need a USM treatment because the
'tween shit is just terrible.

USE FILM.




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Hecate




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:18:59 -0400, "frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com>
wrote:

>Why are scanned images invariably soft (out-of-focus)? It doesnt matter if
>the original is film (neg or transparency) or print.Can you explain it ?
>
Funny, I don't have that problem with my Minolta 5400...

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui


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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Stephan




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
"Hecate" <hecate@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:vedpl0h1ocbcmea1f7237rhme0gtro0pjt@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:18:59 -0400, "frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com>
> wrote:
> 
if 
> Funny, I don't have that problem with my Minolta 5400...
>
Same here, I have an older slow and loud scanner but the images are razor
sharp.

Stephan




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

jjs




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
"Stephan" <NoMoreSpam@Thank.you> wrote in message
news:XO47d.459$o27.384@twister.socal.rr.com...

> Same here, I have an older slow and loud scanner but the images are razor
> sharp.

It is possible that your scanning program is applying USM, and/or your
critical requisites are weak.




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Scraphead




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
I have a canon 5000f that works really well. What kind of scanner are you
talking about?


"frankg" <whosoever@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:h6Y6d.20537$MD5.1040394@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Why are scanned images invariably soft (out-of-focus)? It doesnt matter if
> the original is film (neg or transparency) or print.Can you explain it ?
>
> I have a good film scanner (Polaroid 120) and Silverfast Ai software
(which
> has a focus on/off).
> My flatbed is somewhat older (Microtek Scanmaker III with Scanwizard) but
> still decent.
>
> When I open the images in Photoshop I'm always disappointed in how 'soft'
> they are and they Always need sharpening applied.
>
> Apparently 'it's a fact of life' but why ?
>
>




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Re: scanned images soft - why ?
 

Tacit




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Old Post  10-02-04 - 05:14 PM  
>I have a good film scanner (Polaroid 120) ...

No, you do not have a good scanner; that's a big part of your problem.

Many people go to CompUSA or Best Buy and buy a scanner, and they believe th
ey
have a "good" scanner. There is, almost by definition, no such thing as a
"good" consumer-grade scanner; decent scanners start at about $17,000 and go
 up
to about $320,000. I've used $320,000 scanners, and the image you get is ver
y
crisp.

Back to your problem.

Consumer-grade film scanners suck. Not to put too fine a point on it, it's a
fact of life.

If you want a crisp scan from most consumer-grade scanners, I suggest you re
ad
about and become comfortable with Filter->Sharpen->Unsharp Mask. Unsharp
masking (USM) is a technique for sharpening a soft image.

Some scanners do unsharp masking during the scan; check to see if your scann
er
has this option. Scanners that do it will produce crisper scans than scanner
s
that don't. If your scanner doesn't, you'll need to unsharp mask your image 
in
Photoshop after it's scanned.

Unsharp masking is part art, part science. There is no set way to use it whi
ch
works for all images.

Generally speaking, however:

The Unsharp Mask filter works by exaggerating areas of high contrast--ie,
edges. This gives the appearance of sharper edges, and increases the apparen
t
overall sharpness of the image. While it can't make a blurred or out-of-focu
s
image sharp (nothing can do this), it can dramatically increase the percepti
on
of sharpness. And unsharp masking is a requirement to get good-looking image
s
in print.

The Amount slider dictates how much edges are increased in contrast. If the
value in this slider is too high, the image will appear to have "halos" arou
nd
the edges.

The Radius slider determines how wide the area of enhanced contrast is aroun
d
edges. In general, the amount you put in the Radius field depends on the
resolution of the image; the higher the resolution in pixels per inch, the
wider the Radius.

A good place to start is (image resolution/200). If the image is screen
resolution--100 pixels per inch or less--try a Radius of 1. Increasin ghte
Radius will also create undesireable halos around edges.

If you are sharpening an image which will be printed on a printing press, an
d
your image is the recommended resolution (twice the frequency of the halfton
e
you will be using to reproduce the image on press), use a Radius of (halfton
e
screen/100). So, for example, if your image is being printed on press with a
150-line-per-inch halftone, use a Radius value of 1.5.

The Threshold command determines how far apart two neighboring pixels must b
e
in tonal value in order to be sharpened. I usually start with a Threshold of
 3.
Lower Threshold values exaggerate noise along with edges; higher values don'
t
sharpen noise, but also produce more muted sharpening overall.

Note that if your image is intended for print, you should set the Amount val
ue
so that the image looks slightly over-sharpened on your screen! This is beca
use
the process of halftoning the image for print decreases the apparent sharpne
ss
of the image (which is why all images should have USM applied if they are go
ing
to be used for print).

>My flatbed is somewhat older (Microtek Scanmaker III with Scanwizard) but
>still decent.

That scanner wasn't particularly good even when it was brand-new. Sorry...

--
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html



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