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This is Interesting: Free Magazines for Graphics designers and webmasters
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 09-10-04 - 12:22 AM 
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Spartanicus wrote:
> Stephen Poley <sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> wrote:
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Spartanicus,
OK, this isn't my site, but I think there's a chance here for me to
learn something important.
First, how do you view a site without the associated CSS? (Um, as a real
user, not a hacker.)
(snip assorted numbered responses)
> 2) It's currently a strange mix, some elements adapt to my window width,
> but the important bit (the content) doesn't.
It adapts fine in my environment. Do you mean it doesn't adapt without
CSS? If so, how COULD it adapt? Except for <pre>, shouldn't raw HTML
adapt just fine?
> 5) Page linearity is a real mess, look at it sans css.
I've never heard the term 'page linearity' before. Google didn't help.
Can you tell me what you mean by this?
> 13) The "submenu" at the end of the index page is superfluous, these sub
> links are present on the pages that can be reached via the "main" menu
> (I'm looking at it sans css and sans js).
Does this imply rethinking his entire drop-down menu implementation?
Without CSS, there's no display:none to hide this stuff.
> 14) The breadcrumb bar is orphaned off to the right due to it being a
> part fixed width site.
I didn't understand this one. May it's the process I used to remove CSS.
The breadcrumb showed up right after the phone number and before the
primary page content. Or was the site changed after your post?
Thanks for any enlightenment you care to provide.
Chris Beall
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09-10-04 - 12:23 AM
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On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 10:18:41 +0100, Spartanicus wrote:
> Page/content linearity means placing the content in a logical order.
>
> http://www.atlis.nl/nl/atlis/ has a decorative image, a postal address,
> phone numbers, a nav section and a bread crumb bar before the actual
> page header (which should be "About Atlis" btw), all this preceding
> stuff should be positioned *in the source* below the "Atlis" header and
> it's following paragraph.
I'll extend this definition a smidge by saying that, since CSS positioning
really lets you move bits anywhere on the page you want, the actual
position and ordering of the content in the HTML code can be in any order.
So, to help with accessibility and improve cross-browser or CSS-disabled
readability, it is good to actually order <div>'s in the HTML source in a
way that makes sense.
--
Jeffrey Silverman
jeffreyPANTS@jhu.edu
** Drop "PANTS" to reply by email
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09-10-04 - 12:23 AM
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Spartanicus wrote:
> Chris Beall <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:
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> In my UA I use Ctrl-G.
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> The text doesn't flow in the available space:
> http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/atlis.nl.png
OK, got it. You're using a much higher window size than I do. Note,
however, that there is a point of view that says that long text lines
are hard to read ('cause your eyeballs get confused when they do a
carriage return). One recommendation that I once saw was that a line of
text should not exceed the combined length of the upper and lowercase
alphabet in the font being used.
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> I have js disabled, I didn't look at how the drop down menu is
> implemented, at any rate currently it's wrong because it disassociates
> the main menu items from the sub menu items.
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> It appears on the right in a otherwise blank space:
> http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/atlis.nl.png
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OK, I understand. Another consequence of your larger window size. This
seems to be a general problem with a 3-column design in which the widths
of the left and right columns are fixed. When the window size gets
large, all of the increase is applied to the center column, which then
gets longer than a 'good' line of text should be (see above), resulting
in lots of blank space. This could be made more attractive by centering
the paragraph (still left-justified) within the center column, thus
splitting the empty space. I think I'd prefer a solution in which the
side columns expand, so the proportions remain the same at all window sizes.
Thanks,
Chris Beall
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