A little while ago I was asked to tidy up the English translation of a
site. It didn't take me long to realise it had more problems than the
English grammar: frames, Javascript-dependent, mediocre when printed,
slow for the content etc. After some discussions with the owner I got
permission to restructure it, though with strict instructions to change
the actual page layout as little as possible. The new version is now
online at http://www.atlis.nl/

Your comments would be welcome.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

"Stephen Poley" <sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:c8jhj09gfrd9uc0ikjtpifk16pmt07hq98@4ax.com...
> A little while ago I was asked to tidy up the English translation of a
> site. It didn't take me long to realise it had more problems than the
> English grammar: frames, Javascript-dependent, mediocre when printed,
> slow for the content etc. After some discussions with the owner I got
> permission to restructure it, though with strict instructions to change
> the actual page layout as little as possible. The new version is now
> online at http://www.atlis.nl/
>
> Your comments would be welcome.
>

Looks a nice clean site.

I use a 1440x900 laptop and the pages spreads nicely over the full window.

There is a minor validation error on
http://www.atlis.nl/en/pm/services/project_start.html and there doesn't
appear to be an English version of the pyramid image on that page which is a
shame.

I havent checked all the pages in the validator but with the exception of
the one above all those that I have checked do validate.

I like the fact that even with Javascript disabled I can still get to the
"top" level of each menu and get the "lower" menu options from the text on
that page. I mean, I can navigate the site without JS.

I tried it with Opera, FF and IE6 and it looked consistent in all browsers
with no obvious problems (I'm using windows XP BTW).

I feel like that bot/twat Ginae but it does look very nice
indeed...doubtless a better person than me will pick it to bits though :)

HTH

Deryck

Stephen Poley <sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>http://www.atlis.nl/
>
>Your comments would be welcome.

1) The use of national flags for language selection is not smart.
2) It's currently a strange mix, some elements adapt to my window width,
but the important bit (the content) doesn't.
3) You've not specified a background colour, that's only ok if you don't
specify a foreground colour. Currently it breaks with certain user
specified preferences.
4) The blue'ish image on the top left is strictly decorative, hence it
should disappear when viewed sans css (including the space it occupies).
5) Page linearity is a real mess, look at it sans css.
6) Good coding style: quote all attribute values.
7) List of links (nav) not marked up as such.
8) Company logo appears twice sans css, one should not.
9) "Submenu's: rest van de pagina negeren." makes no semantic sense,
read the page content out loud.
10) No form mail fallback.
11) More good coding style: choose lower or upper case, stick to it
(currently it's a mix).
12) The html doesn't validate.
13) The "submenu" at the end of the index page is superfluous, these sub
links are present on the pages that can be reached via the "main" menu
(I'm looking at it sans css and sans js).
14) The breadcrumb bar is orphaned off to the right due to it being a
part fixed width site.
15) The company address, email, phone #, main navbar and breadcrumb bar
are not properly structurally separated sans css.

--
Spartanicus

In message <c8jhj09gfrd9uc0ikjtpifk16pmt07hq98@4ax.com>, Stephen Poley
<sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> writes
>A little while ago I was asked to tidy up the English translation of a
>site. It didn't take me long to realise it had more problems than the
>English grammar: frames, Javascript-dependent, mediocre when printed,
>slow for the content etc. After some discussions with the owner I got
>permission to restructure it, though with strict instructions to change
>the actual page layout as little as possible. The new version is now
>online at http://www.atlis.nl/
>
>Your comments would be welcome.
>
English Version:

(1) The <title></title> contents on the English home page is in Dutch.

(2) The menu needs a separator between each item  e.g. "|".

(3) The 'Home' link on the Home page is still active, as is the 'Project
Management' link on the Project Management page, etc.

(4) Most pages could do with some headings ( <h1><h2><h3> etc.)

(5) It could do with a 'skip to main content' link at the start of each
page.

(6) Dutch annotated diagram on English page.

(7) 'You are here' would be nice to announce the bread crumb.

(8) On the Atlis page, 'This Site' points to the same page as
'Customers'.

regards

--
Jake

In message <JzqEwwe$eOOBFwtO@gododdin.demon.co.uk>, jake
<jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <c8jhj09gfrd9uc0ikjtpifk16pmt07hq98@4ax.com>, Stephen Poley
><sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> writes 
>English Version:
>
[snip]

>(4) Most pages could do with some headings ( <h1><h2><h3> etc.)
>
Forget this one; I didn't have my stylesheet switched in when I looked
at the pages.

[snip]

>regards
>

--
Jake

Stephen Poley <sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> http://www.atlis.nl/

Well, it does not validate.

Besides that, and the ugly dividers on the menu at top, and the meaningless
graphic element on the left, and the odd way the site is structured on the
server (../../../) ... um, okay. Maybe it is not that good.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

Chris Beall <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote in
news:YB8_c.10894$Y94.8597@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:

> First, how do you view a site without the associated CSS? (Um, as a real
> user, not a hacker.)

In Firefox with the Web Developer extension loaded,
Disable > Disable Styles, or else Ctrl+Shift+D.

No matter what your 'regular browser' is, it's worthwhile
getting Firefox and the Web Developer extension(and the
DOM Inspector, and LiveHTTPHeaders, and Google Pagerank,
and probably others ;-)

--
Dave Patton
Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
http://www.confluence.org/
My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/

Chris Beall <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:

>First, how do you view a site without the associated CSS?

In my UA I use Ctrl-G.
 
>
>It adapts fine in my environment.

The text doesn't flow in the available space:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/atlis.nl.png
 
>
>I've never heard the term 'page linearity' before. Google didn't help.
>Can you tell me what you mean by this?

 
>
>Does this imply rethinking his entire drop-down menu implementation?

I have js disabled, I didn't look at how the drop down menu is
implemented, at any rate currently it's wrong because it disassociates
the main menu items from the sub menu items.
 
>
>I didn't understand this one.

It appears on the right in a otherwise blank space:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/test/atlis.nl.png

--
Spartanicus

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 01:10:16 +0000, Chris Beall wrote:

> OK, this isn't my site, but I think there's a chance here for me to
> learn something important.
> First, how do you view a site without the associated CSS? (Um, as a real
> user, not a hacker.)

Use Opera.

--
Jeffrey Silverman
jeffreyPANTS@jhu.edu
** Drop "PANTS" to reply by email

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 10:18:41 +0100, Spartanicus wrote:

> Page/content linearity means placing the content in a logical order.
>
> http://www.atlis.nl/nl/atlis/ has a decorative image, a postal address,
> phone numbers, a nav section and a bread crumb bar before the actual
> page header (which should be "About Atlis" btw), all this preceding
> stuff should be positioned *in the source* below the "Atlis" header and
> it's following paragraph.

I'll extend this definition a smidge by saying that, since CSS positioning
really lets you move bits anywhere on the page you want, the actual
position and ordering of the content in the HTML code can be in any order.

So, to help with accessibility and improve cross-browser or CSS-disabled
readability, it is good to actually order <div>'s in the HTML source in a
way that makes sense.

--
Jeffrey Silverman
jeffreyPANTS@jhu.edu
** Drop "PANTS" to reply by email