Website Design Forum - positioning & css tools

Author

positioning & css tools

tyler.style@gmail.com

2006-04-03, 6:55 pm

I am sure this should be an easy question, but finding meaningful hits
on google has been difficult.

All I want is an editing tool that I can use to create forms or web
content areas that will generate positioning data in CSS rather than
using tables. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this?

Thanks muchly!

Tyler Style
tyler AT 4BotsDeleteMe DOT kinotox DOT com

Adrienne Boswell

2006-04-04, 3:52 am

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX writing in
news:1144101498.126052.196640@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I am sure this should be an easy question, but finding meaningful hits
> on google has been difficult.
>
> All I want is an editing tool that I can use to create forms or web
> content areas that will generate positioning data in CSS rather than
> using tables. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this?
>
> Thanks muchly!
>
> Tyler Style
> tyler AT 4BotsDeleteMe DOT kinotox DOT com
>
>

Take a look at <http://www.cavalcade-of-
coding.info/usenet/requiredform.html> or with server side coding for
required fields <http://www.intraproducts.com/usenet/requiredform.asp>.

I could also get a good CSS editor, TopStyle <http://www.bradsoft.com> is
very good.

--
Adrienne Boswell
Please respond to the group so others can share
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info

shaggy

2006-04-04, 6:57 am

you might like Balthisar Cascade (windows)
http://www.balthisar.com/site/index...display&ceid=11

Bluefish (*nix)
http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/index.html

or FCKeditor (server based)
http://www.fckeditor.net/default.html

tyler.style@gmail.com

2006-04-10, 7:22 pm

Well, thanks for replying guys, but you are misunderstanding. I don't
want a CSS editor. I want a web authoring tool that uses CSS for
positioning instead of tables. Doesn't look like there is such a
beast, alas.

Jim Moe

2006-04-10, 7:22 pm

tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
>
> All I want is an editing tool that I can use to create forms or web
> content areas that will generate positioning data in CSS rather than
> using tables. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this?
>
I have seen sites generated by Dreamweaver that uses position:absolute
to place all of the blocks. The sites are universally brittle, especially
with respect to font size.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

Adrienne Boswell

2006-04-11, 3:53 am

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX writing in
news:1144698805.938601.17310@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

> Well, thanks for replying guys, but you are misunderstanding. I don't
> want a CSS editor. I want a web authoring tool that uses CSS for
> positioning instead of tables. Doesn't look like there is such a
> beast, alas.
>
>

You could take a look at TopStyle Pro - <URL:http://www.bradsoft.com/>.
TopStyle does have WYSIWYG positioning. Again, by using semantic markup
eg:
<style type="text/css">
fieldset {padding:1em;}
legend {font-variant:small-caps}
label {display:block; width:10em; float:left; text-align:right}
input {margin-left:1em}
form br {clear:both}
</style>
<body>
<form method="post" action="yourscript">
<fieldset><legend>Labels are right aligned without using tables</legend>
<label for="field1">Field1:</label><input type="text" name="field1"
id="field1"><br>
.....
</fieldset>
</form>

--
Adrienne Boswell
Please respond to the group so others can share
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info

The Major

2006-04-11, 7:10 pm

In message <Xns97A1DC723C999arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>, Adrienne
Boswell <arbpen@yahoo.com> writes
>Gazing into my crystal ball I observed tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX writing in
>news:1144698805.938601.17310@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>You could take a look at TopStyle Pro - <URL:http://www.bradsoft.com/>.
>TopStyle does have WYSIWYG positioning.

I really don't think it has... in fact I know it hasn't. It has a review
mode that will show you the page you are working on in MSIE or FF, and
allow external review in any other browser you may have, but that's
hardly WYSIWYG...
--
Chris Hughes
"Reality is that which, when you cease to believe, continues to exist."
http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk

shaggy

2006-04-11, 7:10 pm

well - if you create a page layout using dreamweaver's layers they're
converted to css divs with absolute positioning, which is wyswig css
positioning in a kludgy non-liquid kind of way

kchayka

2006-04-11, 7:10 pm

The Major wrote:
> In message <Xns97A1DC723C999arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>, Adrienne
> Boswell <arbpen@yahoo.com> writes
>
> I really don't think it has...

I don't think it matters either way. The important thing to note is that
you shouldn't use CSS positioning unless you really know what you are doing.

I get the impression the OP doesn't, thus it is likely his layout will
fall apart at the slightest nudge, making the site unusable. :(

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tyler.style@gmail.com

2006-04-11, 7:10 pm

Well, I am moderately familiar with CSS, but not enough to be able to
zip it off by hand with no problems. The whole point of WYSIWYG tools
is that you DON'T have to be an expert. Thought that DOES let the
completely ignorant generate enormous steaming piles of poo (FrontPage,
anyone).

I just find it a pain in the butt to have to fiddle with the numbers in
the style sheet every time I want to see how things would look with a
different layout; I'd much rather be able to drag and drop. Plus since
I am not a wizard, I find it helpful to see what automatic generation
does, and then tweak by hand.

Dreamweaver may be brittle and break easily, but all that shows is that
it does a poor job of it, not that all CSS should be done by hand.
Methinks it likely that someone will get around to pumping out a tool
for it sooner or later, as css positioning becomes even more widely
adopted and the general populace discovers how much tables suck for
layout...

kchayka

2006-04-11, 7:10 pm

tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
> Well, I am moderately familiar with CSS, but not enough to be able to
> zip it off by hand with no problems. The whole point of WYSIWYG tools
> is that you DON'T have to be an expert.

These tools only give you a false sense of security. Where CSS
positioning is concerned, you DO have to know what you're doing if you
expect the result to be usable in a variety of browsing environments.

Every so-called WYSIWYG tool I've ever seen does positioning using
absolute sizes at absolute x/y coordinates. This assumes everyone will
use the same browser, O/S, window size, default text size, font, screen
resolution, and everything else as you. That isn't going to happen in
the real world, so the design is naturally very fragile.

You would be better off getting some well-tested templates and learn
from them, rather than relying on an inherently broken tool. You might
start here:
<URL:http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts>

> Dreamweaver may be brittle and break easily, but all that shows is that
> it does a poor job of it, not that all CSS should be done by hand.

There is more to CSS than positioning. Regardless, all positioning
should be done by hand.

Learn how to use positioning correctly first, then, if still want to use
a so-called WYSIWYG editor, you will at least know how to correct the
mistakes it makes.

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Please reply to the group so everyone can share.

Adrienne Boswell

2006-04-11, 11:11 pm

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed The Major
<The.Major@farnsebarnse.demon.co.uk> writing in news:oD7KCtLfy3OEFwu4
@epicure.demon.co.uk:

>
> I really don't think it has... in fact I know it hasn't. It has a review
> mode that will show you the page you are working on in MSIE or FF, and
> allow external review in any other browser you may have, but that's
> hardly WYSIWYG...

Yup, it does, it's under Tools - Edit Box Properties or Edit Position
Properties. You have to be in an existing declaration (just the name will
suffice to enable the tool).

--
Adrienne Boswell
Please respond to the group so others can share
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info

tyler.style@gmail.com

2006-04-13, 10:58 pm

Oh, I agree that I should learn to do it myself and then correct the
editor. I do that with other DHTML all the time. None the less,
having no mentor, any sort of example will do, and I want examples
close to what I am trying to do. I'm a fan of learning from example,
and copy/paste/tweak. Rather than search 'em out, it's easier to
generate them and study them in a WYSIWYG.

Plus, I've found one that does what I was asking for: DHE Editor
(www.hexagora.com) uses CSS positioning. Need to play around with that
a bit, and see what I can see see see...

Still open to any suggestions, though!

frederick@southernskies.co.uk

2006-04-15, 7:04 pm

tyler.style@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
> Plus, I've found one that does what I was asking for: DHE Editor
> (www.hexagora.com) uses CSS positioning. Need to play around with that
> a bit, and see what I can see see see...
Well, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

But their website doesn't fill me with as much confidence as it might.
Is it me or are they trying to use frames to centre their content?!
And, assuming that they use their own software for coding their
website, it looks like you'll be doing a lot of deleting to get rid of
unnecessary font declarations!

Cheers,

AGw.

jensen.aa@gmail.com

2006-05-08, 7:02 pm

www.webMODULES.com is a free hosted Content Management System. yes is
said Free and Hosted in the same sentence.