Paint Shop Pro support

Author

Moire

Dave Symes

2004-09-25, 7:15 am

In article <414618DF.4E13E8FA@jasc.com>,
Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Are you sure it is moiré? Are you sure you aren't capturing
> two interlaced (and therefore displaced) frames during one
> exposure? Try a shorter exposure time.

Thanks for the note Kris, I've been busy and only just got around to
trying out your suggestions.
As with Silver days we've been trying with 1/30th, 1/25th and 1/20th and
1/15th sec exposure times.

Are you sure about... "Try a shorter exposure time" that would imply
speeds more than 30th sec, whereas with telly pics the exposure time needs
to be = to, somewhere around or less than the scan rate.

(In photography shorter exposure time = Faster shutter speed, 1/125 is a
shorter exposure time than 1/30) ??

[Snip my bit]

> Try defocusing the camera a little. That's a standard trick
> for reducing moiré, if moiré is what you have.

[Snip]

Mmnn! interesting thought, I've now tried that, but to get rid of enough
moire/interference I have to defocus so much, that the image really is of
no use afterwards.

We've come to the conclusion that the problem originates from two things.

1) The image problems are made worse by the CCD and and screen
scan/pixelation interference patterns.

2) Modern CRT tubes don't give as good an image as they used to.
We've tested this one out by digging out the old camera to take a roll of
silver as a comparison, and comparing them with the same images taken in
the late nineteen eighties.

Notably better than the Digital camera images, but not as good as those
taken in the late Eighties... Same camera, same film type, same house, but
different modern TV.

So unfortunately the best answer ATM is continue with the Silver
photography, then put the negs through the Minlota film/slide scanner we
have.

I suppose another solution would be the one suggested by Bob G "Frame
capture from a video card", unfortunately I don't have one, and it's a
subject about which I know very little, apart from the basics.

But thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers
Dave S

--

LindaN

2004-09-25, 12:20 pm

"Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4cf3db1230dfs@ukgateway.net...
Dave Symes wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone has some useful advice.

SWMBO wants to get some pictures off the TV using the Oly DigiCamera
(3.3MPix) but of course the pixelation interference (CCD and TV screen)
causes large amounts of Moire to be generated.
>

This is an older article, but it should still apply:
http://www.textfiles.com/computers/photoscn.txt

This is newer:
http://www.photoxels.com/tutorial_tv.html

Both work.

Take care,
Linda

Kris Zaklika

2004-09-25, 12:20 pm

Dave Symes wrote:
[snip]

> Are you sure about... "Try a shorter exposure time"

Sorry, said the opposite of what I meant.

[snip]

Uni

2004-09-25, 7:18 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
> Sorry, said the opposite of what I meant.

That's okay, Kris. We're used to Jasc employees not getting it correct
the first time.

:-)

Uni

>
> [snip]

--
Got Milk? No, But Got super news!
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/supernews.html

Dave Symes

2004-09-25, 7:18 pm

In article <07e5d.2678$KF.21221@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
LindaN <Spl@.com> wrote:

> "Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
> news:4cf3db1230dfs@ukgateway.net...
> Dave Symes wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone has some useful advice.

> SWMBO wants to get some pictures off the TV using the Oly DigiCamera
> (3.3MPix) but of course the pixelation interference (CCD and TV screen)
> causes large amounts of Moire to be generated.
[color=darkred]
> This is an older article, but it should still apply:
> http://www.textfiles.com/computers/photoscn.txt

> This is newer:
> http://www.photoxels.com/tutorial_tv.html

> Both work.

> Take care,
> Linda

Thanks for the note, appreciated. :-)

Unfortunately suggestion 1 adds nothing to the knowledge we both already
have as long time general photographers, and on the silver side taking TV
piccies for 25 years.

Suggestion 2 again unfortunately adds nothing to the knowledge we already
have of of silver and digital TV photography.

But again I appreciate your suggestions.

Cheers
Dave S

--

Trev

2004-09-25, 7:18 pm

"Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4cf414ad9bdfs@ukgateway.net...
> In article <07e5d.2678$KF.21221@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> LindaN <Spl@.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the note, appreciated. :-)
>
> Unfortunately suggestion 1 adds nothing to the knowledge we both already
> have as long time general photographers, and on the silver side taking TV
> piccies for 25 years.
>
> Suggestion 2 again unfortunately adds nothing to the knowledge we already
> have of of silver and digital TV photography.
>
> But again I appreciate your suggestions.
>
> Cheers
> Dave S
>

When you can get a Pinnacle pctv card for £28 I would have given up
struggling by now
> --
>

Dave Symes

2004-09-25, 7:18 pm

In article <ooidnQbMqMgMVsjcRVnytQ@pipex.net>,
Trev <trevbowdenATwireless.pipexDOTnet> wrote:

[Snip]

> When you can get a Pinnacle pctv card for £28 I would have given up
> struggling by now

But then again, it's through struggle we learn.

Yes there are a number of TV/Video cards that would do the business, and I
might go down that path eventually, but first, because I'm a Grumpy,
cussed old B, I'm going to experiment fully with the gear I've already got.

Cheers
Dave S

PS: Three people I've had personal contact with, regarding Cards, say
don't touch Pinnacle products with a barge pole... (Well they actually
used the excrement epithet).

Personally, never used any of their products so I wouldn't know.
D.

--

Trev

2004-09-26, 7:17 am

"Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4cf4265611dfs@ukgateway.net...
> In article <ooidnQbMqMgMVsjcRVnytQ@pipex.net>,
> Trev <trevbowdenATwireless.pipexDOTnet> wrote:
>
> [Snip]
>
>
> But then again, it's through struggle we learn.
>
> Yes there are a number of TV/Video cards that would do the business, and I
> might go down that path eventually, but first, because I'm a Grumpy,
> cussed old B, I'm going to experiment fully with the gear I've already
> got.
>
> Cheers
> Dave S
>
> PS: Three people I've had personal contact with, regarding Cards, say
> don't touch Pinnacle products with a barge pole... (Well they actually
> used the excrement epithet).
>
> Personally, never used any of their products so I wouldn't know.
> D.
I have a pinnacle dc10 analogue in and out along with Studio 8 edit suite.
I have had no problems. I also have a 7 year old avermedia TV card working
well thought win 98 then XP. I have herd the same stories but then I dont
have a problem opening tif or tiff's either

Uni

2004-09-26, 7:17 am

Trev wrote:
> "Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
> news:4cf4265611dfs@ukgateway.net...
>
>
> I have a pinnacle dc10

I had thoughts of purchasing that card, but then along came ATI's Radeon
card, with VIVO (Video In Video Out), and it changed my mind!!!

:-)

Uni

LindaN

2004-09-26, 12:16 pm

"Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4cf414ad9bdfs@ukgateway.net...
>
> Thanks for the note, appreciated. :-)
>
> Unfortunately suggestion 1 adds nothing to the knowledge we both already
> have as long time general photographers, and on the silver side taking TV
> piccies for 25 years.
>
> Suggestion 2 again unfortunately adds nothing to the knowledge we already
> have of of silver and digital TV photography.
>
> But again I appreciate your suggestions.
>
> Cheers
> Dave S
>
>

Your original questions from your original post:
==================
>Dave S wrote:
>Back in the old silver days it wasn't a problem, we just took the piccies
>and that was that, and they came put okay, and over the years we've taken
>a lot.
>
>So I suppose I have two different questions:
>
>1) Anyone found a good way to take TV pics with a digital camera?
>
>2) Any known tutorials about cleaning up digitally taken TV piccies?
>
>Cheers
>Dave S
=================

Both of the articles posted solve question 1. Do them right and your second
question doesn't need to be asked.

If it is something else you wish to do than perhaps wording the questions so
they correctly point to what you hope to achieve will assist people in
giving you the help you've asked for. :-)

Take care,
Linda

Dave Symes

2004-09-26, 7:22 pm

In article <sky5d.2705$KF.21406@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
LindaN <Spl@.com> wrote:
> "Dave Symes" <dfs@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
> news:4cf414ad9bdfs@ukgateway.net...
[color=darkred]
> Your original questions from your original post: ==================
> =================

> Both of the articles posted solve question 1. Do them right and your
> second question doesn't need to be asked.

> If it is something else you wish to do than perhaps wording the
> questions so they correctly point to what you hope to achieve will
> assist people in giving you the help you've asked for. :-)

> Take care, Linda

The point is, neither article adds anything to the knowledge we already
have... we've been there, done that, bought the T shirt and heard the fat
lady sing many times...

Despite all that, and despite much new experimenting along those well worn
tracks, there was no noticeable improvement in the picture quality.

However, as I also mentioned we'd dug out an old silver camera, and put a
roll through that.
It gave us a clue, in that comparing the new images with some (Same) taken
a few years previously (different & new TV) there was a noticeable
difference.

The modern TV is the source of much of the trouble.
If I reduce the image mode on the TV to the smallest it can display,
fiddle with the brightness and contrast a bit, and only use 1/15 sec on
the Digicam, and take three picture in succession, one of the three will
be good enough for me to process through PSP and end up with a
satisfactory result.

Considering what SWMBO wants do do with the pictures, I think enough
effort has been expended on the subject...
She can now get on with taking her pictures while I get on with my stuff.

Cheers
Dave S

--