Paint Shop Pro support - OT: Corel acquires Jasc Software

Author

OT: Corel acquires Jasc Software

All Things Mopar

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

My apologies - I forgot to paste in the link:

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?
pagename=Corel2/Section/Press/Release&sid=1047022959204&cid=
1047023901915

--
ATM

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

All Things Mopar wrote:
>
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915

Another one bites the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit,
Sony bought Video Factory, now Corel buys JASC. It
always makes me sad, because the small, indepedent
companies may have flaws, but their personnel are
present and human, and their products reflect needs
that actual individual users present in places like
this newsgroup.

If I'm gonna buy Corel, why not just buy Adobe? What's
the difference now?

Dennis

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
> All Things Mopar wrote:
> http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915
>
> Another one bites the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit,
> Sony bought Video Factory, now Corel buys JASC. It
> always makes me sad, because the small, indepedent
> companies may have flaws, but their personnel are
> present and human, and their products reflect needs
> that actual individual users present in places like
> this newsgroup.
>
> If I'm gonna buy Corel, why not just buy Adobe? What's
> the difference now?

Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
Album products continue. The same people continue to
work on the same products.

> Dennis

Richard Schafer

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

Yes, JASC's success is all about "value" of product and support.

Not necessarily true of Corel, AFAIK.

Will cultures collide? If they do, we know which one will survive.

Mr. Zaklika... mark your calendar for a year from new, and let us know
how much of your post is still true which I hope it is.

Thanks for being there for us-- your customers!

R.

======On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika
<kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote:=======
[color=darkred]
>Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
>working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
>Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
>Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
>Album products continue. The same people continue to
>work on the same products.
>

fugitive

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
wrote:
[color=darkred]
>Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
>Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
>working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
>Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
>Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
>Album products continue. The same people continue to
>work on the same products.
>

They also said that Chrysler would still be Chrysler after being
bought by the German co. That is very suspect.
I'm so sorry that this happened, but I guess some of the higher ups
with benefit with more green. Would anyone ever be willing to tell the
whole truth about the deal?

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:
>
> Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
> Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
> Album products continue. The same people continue to
> work on the same products.

I hope that remains true. If it does, it becomes the exception to recent
acquisitions of software I've used with great enthusiasm over the years.
The loss of Cool Edit began a feature bloat when it became Adobe
Audition, and complete abandonment of advice for earlier versions. The
same holds true for Sony's taking over Video Factory, which now (as a
baby version of Vegas) doesn't install properly and where support can't
fix problems.

I've appreciated PSP over the years ... I started with a version on
diskettes, either version 3 or earlier. Its easy and fast UI has always
maintained working efficiency over Photoshop, which I keep only for
certain tasks.

Best of luck in the future. I'll keep upgrading PSP as long as it exists
in a personally supported, user-centric product.

Dennis

Brendan R. Wehrung

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

All Things Mopar (none@none.xxx) writes:
> My apologies - I forgot to paste in the link:
>
> http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?
> pagename=Corel2/Section/Press/Release&sid=1047022959204&cid=
> 1047023901915
>
> --
> ATM

Here's the first paragraph from the latest Corel newsletter:

To Our Valued Customers,

Since becoming a private company last year, Corel is a stable, growing
organization. Offering our customers access to more top quality,
competitively priced software products forms an important part of our
current and future growth plans and I am pleased to tell you that today
Corel acquired Jasc Software, Inc., the award-winning developer of the
Paint Shop family of digital photography, imaging and graphics software. I
am confident that this acquisition will deliver immediate benefits to you,
our valued customer.

I guess they realized PhotoPaint, despite a couple of nice features, just
wasn't competative.

Brendan
--

Brendan R. Wehrung

2004-10-14, 7:16 pm

fugitive (gregfarr@earthlink..net) writes:
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> They also said that Chrysler would still be Chrysler after being
> bought by the German co. That is very suspect.
> I'm so sorry that this happened, but I guess some of the higher ups
> with benefit with more green. Would anyone ever be willing to tell the
> whole truth about the deal?

The worse thing for upgraders is that Corel is VERY interested in
maintaining a "list" price, rarely offering anything other than the
standard deal.

Brendan
--

Jonathan

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

No one has anything to WORRY ABOUT AT ALL. Corel, like Jasc, has long been
known for providing superb value for the money. With their efforts combined,
I belive Paint Shop Pro will only get better.

"Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
news:416EC1F9.F5A6839@jasc.com...[color=darkred]
> Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...n/Press/Release
&sid=1047022959204&cid=1047023901915[color=darkred]
>
> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
> Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
> Album products continue. The same people continue to
> work on the same products.
>

McGrandpa

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

"Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
news:416EC1F9.F5A6839@jasc.com
> Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
> Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
> Album products continue. The same people continue to
> work on the same products.

I'm really glad to hear that Kris. I was about to get very despondent.
McG.
[color=darkred]
>

Uni

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:
> Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
>
>
> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now.

Financial difficulties, Kris?

:-)

Uni

The Hemmelman's

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

In article <416EC1F9.F5A6839@jasc.com>, kzaklika@jasc.com says...

>
> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
> Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
> Album products continue. The same people continue to
> work on the same products.
>
>

I hope this remains true for the life of the product. The folks at Jasc
have always given a good value for the product. But I paid $49 for the
boxed edition of PSP v9 upgrade and I now see the price for the very
same thing is $59. Since nothing with the product has changed, I don't
understand the reason for the increase in price. I've always enjoyed
using PSP as it provides pretty much all the functionality I need. But
I just don't trust Corel as their products are overpriced like Adobe's
(IMHO) and they have "pay for support" so I can't help but be
disappointed that Corel now has their hands on the steering wheel.

(Just my unfounded opinion that I hope is wrong.)

--
Keith Hemmelman
---------------
mail - khemmelman
domain - pie.midco.net
(Reassemble for mail)

Cory Seedan

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
wrote:

>Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
>Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
>working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
>Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
>Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
>Album products continue. The same people continue to
>work on the same products.
>

Unless you are good at something Corel needs for one of it's existing
products, I'd be getting my resume out and around soon. You all may
be working on the same products now, but I have my doubts that such
products will still exist at some time in the not-so-distant future.

Larger software companies buy out smaller software companies for one
of two reasons. Either to branch out to acquire a new product and
market, or to absorb and eliminate a competitor within the same
market. Since Corel already produces graphics products, I must assume
the latter in this case.

At some point in the future, I anticipate a press announcement from
Corel corporate that PSP and other JASC products will no longer be
supported, and that most JASC staff will see severence notices inside
your pay statements.

Of course, there's a chance I could be wrong...
Whatever happens, good luck!

Bruce Brown

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

I have been a long time user of both products. PSP since it was a dos based
file conversion program and CorelDraw 3.0. I do all my photo editing and
digital work in PSP and all my layout and vector work in Corel. They both
work well together and I would be lost without either of these products on
my desktop. I pray that they continue to develop both lines and make them
both better and greater than they are now. I currently use PSP 9.0 and
CorelDraw 12.0.

Bruce Brown.

"Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <bathory@bathory.org> wrote in message
news:1097773597.P6rteitJEA1tUb3nH/RP+A@onlynews...
> All Things Mopar wrote:
> http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915
>
> Another one bites the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit,
> Sony bought Video Factory, now Corel buys JASC. It
> always makes me sad, because the small, indepedent
> companies may have flaws, but their personnel are
> present and human, and their products reflect needs
> that actual individual users present in places like
> this newsgroup.
>
> If I'm gonna buy Corel, why not just buy Adobe? What's
> the difference now?
>
> Dennis

Oxford Systems

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

"Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <bathory@bathory.org> wrote in message
news:1097773597.P6rteitJEA1tUb3nH/RP+A@onlynews...
> All Things Mopar wrote:
> http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915
>
> Another one bites the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit,
> Sony bought Video Factory, now Corel buys JASC. It
> always makes me sad, because the small, indepedent
> companies may have flaws,

Corel *is* a small independent company. I'm surprised they've been able to
hold on.

Matthew Dranchak

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

I too have been a long time user of PSP ver 1 (still have the V1 3-1/2"
floppy) and Corel Draw ver 3 and have added upgrades as they were issued.
Both have worked very well for me, especially when I needed to work with a
vector image or add text to an image before PSP did some catching up. I
presently have both PSP V9 and CorelDraw Graphics Suite V12 on my computer.
I too hope that Corel does the right thing and treats it's hard earned
following right.

Matt D

"Bruce Brown" <bbrown5@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xLEbd.310077$787.138875@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> I have been a long time user of both products. PSP since it was a dos
based
> file conversion program and CorelDraw 3.0. I do all my photo editing and
> digital work in PSP and all my layout and vector work in Corel. They both
> work well together and I would be lost without either of these products on
> my desktop. I pray that they continue to develop both lines and make them
> both better and greater than they are now. I currently use PSP 9.0 and
> CorelDraw 12.0.
>
> Bruce Brown.
>
> "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <bathory@bathory.org> wrote in message
> news:1097773597.P6rteitJEA1tUb3nH/RP+A@onlynews...
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915[color=darkred]
>
>

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

Oxford Systems wrote:
>
> Corel *is* a small independent company. I'm surprised they've been able to
> hold on.

A small company with network television advertising? Our definitions of
small must be quite different. :)

Dennis

Angela M. Cable

2004-10-14, 11:15 pm

The Hemmelman's wrote:

> I hope this remains true for the life of the product. The folks at Jasc
> have always given a good value for the product. But I paid $49 for the
> boxed edition of PSP v9 upgrade and I now see the price for the very
> same thing is $59. Since nothing with the product has changed, I don't
> understand the reason for the increase in price.

The $49 price was pre-order pricing. They've done that as far back as I
can remember. If you buy before actual release, it's a bit cheaper. Once
the product goes gold, the price goes up slightly.

--
Angela M. Cable
Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester
Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source:
http://www.neocognition.com/

PSP Tutorial Links:
http://www.psplinks.com/

5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more:
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/

All Things Mopar

2004-10-15, 4:17 am

Angela M. Cable commented courteously ...

> The $49 price was pre-order pricing. They've done that as
> far back as I can remember. If you buy before actual
> release, it's a bit cheaper. Once the product goes gold,
> the price goes up slightly.

Hi, Angela.

PSP 9 has been working pretty well for me, but I have filed
3 serious annoyances. Can't help twanging your birdcage a
bit, though, by calling beta 3 PSP "gold". Wasn't it the
purpose of alchemy to try to turn lead to gold? Or, beta to
production?

Can't blame all the new millionaires at Jasc one bit. With a
bit of sleight of hand shipping beta 3 early, they got
gobbled up by a big guy and hit the big time. Being that
Jasc is privately held, can't be any problem with insider
trading with the SEC.

Anyway, when the current flurry of pros and cons over
Corel's acquisition dies down, we'll all go back to waiting
for the upcoming maintenence release, hoping that Tech
Support doesn't go 10-7, and hoping there will be a PSP 10
someday.

Have a great evening!

--

Jerry

Xalinai

2004-10-15, 4:17 am

fugitive wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
> wrote:
>
> http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...Section/Press/R
> elease&sid=1047022959204&cid=1047023901915 >> >> Another one bites
> the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit, >> Sony bought Video Factory, now
> Corel buys JASC. It >> always makes me sad, because the small,
> indepedent >> companies may have flaws, but their personnel are
>
>
>
>
> They also said that Chrysler would still be Chrysler after being
> bought by the German co. That is very suspect.

Yes. But Chrysler could only become better. That makes a difference.

Michael

Carl Frisk

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

I've worked for a several companies that had been bought out several times, and worked for larger companies that have
bought many smaller companies. Even once worked for a company that got bought by a bigger company that was a competitor
of the bigger company I worked for as an onsite vender of the competition. That was weird. We could have no contact
with the parent company and very limited contact with our own company. Anyway I digress....

If the smaller company can maintain profits and provide abstract value to the parent company they usually pretty much
leave you alone. If the bean counters show up in the next few months think about getting out. They are gutting the
smaller company. Seen it every time. If the bean counters have already been there clear your mind and look for signs.
Look for management changes that don't make sense. Remember now it's about money and nothing else. You are no longer
JASC. You are new and improved. I'm not bitter I just kept an open mind and made quite a bit of money on mergers
myself. Look out for yourself first, the company won't.

Sometimes after the merger things actually get better and both companies find a way to work together and help each other
out. I've seen that too.

Good luck.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

"Richard Schafer" <x5x@xxx.com> wrote in message news:pjgtm0dba9rch31rm1jc5o1l4qtm465sbl@4ax.com...
> Yes, JASC's success is all about "value" of product and support.
>
> Not necessarily true of Corel, AFAIK.
>
> Will cultures collide? If they do, we know which one will survive.
>
> Mr. Zaklika... mark your calendar for a year from new, and let us know
> how much of your post is still true which I hope it is.
>
> Thanks for being there for us-- your customers!
>
> R.
>
> ======On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika
> <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote:=======
>
>

Carl Frisk

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

"Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <bathory@bathory.org> wrote in message news:1097804086.dNxIw9j0ngQE77reo3ohIQ@onlynews...
> Oxford Systems wrote:
>
> A small company with network television advertising? Our definitions of
> small must be quite different. :)
>
> Dennis

After downsizing they are under $120M in revenue, though most likely more profitable now because of it. This information
is from Amish Mehta the acting CEO of Corel. Amish is a principle of Vector Capital who owns Corel. Corel is sort of
Amish's pet project right now. If you read his interviews you will see two threads. Marketing and Competing With
Microsoft. Marketing channels and Amish are almost the same thing. I'd say he bought JASC for their brand and for their
marketing channel. Note that in Amish's mind it's Word Perfect first, Draw second. Interestingly enough Amish is the
only one not in the 'team photo' for Vector Capital.

For those who care if you trace back to Vector Capital and get their thinking you'll see exactly why JASC was bought by
Corel/Vector Capital.

So, Corel is a very small company in the world of today's companies. Vector Capital could light a fire with $120M every
day of the week for the rest of the year and not even notice it was gone. Most likely they would toast marshmellows on
the fire. Vector Capital is no giant in the world of VCs (Venture Capitalists).

Also owned by Vector Capital is Real Networks.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

Cory Seedan wrote:
[snip]

> Larger software companies buy out smaller software companies for one
> of two reasons.

By various measures Corel is a company about three times
the size of Jasc and, like Jasc, is privately held.

> Either to branch out to acquire a new product and
> market, or to absorb and eliminate a competitor within the same
> market. Since Corel already produces graphics products, I must assume
> the latter in this case.

If you have been following this newsgroup, you will have
seen recurrent suggestions to use software other than PSP
and seen requests for comparisons between PSP and other
software. In neither case is Corel mentioned. This is
because Jasc and Corel products provide different capabilities
and compete in different markets. They complement each other
and now all these products are available from a single
company - Corel.

[snip]

> Whatever happens, good luck!

Thank you.

Uni

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:
> Cory Seedan wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
> By various measures Corel is a company about three times
> the size of Jasc and, like Jasc, is privately held.
>
>
>
>
> If you have been following this newsgroup, you will have
> seen recurrent suggestions to use software other than PSP
> and seen requests for comparisons between PSP and other
> software. In neither case is Corel mentioned. This is
> because Jasc and Corel products provide different capabilities
> and compete in different markets. They complement each other
> and now all these products are available from a single
> company - Corel.
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
> Thank you.

Boy, you're up early, Kris. Another sleepless night, perhaps?

:-)

See, Kris, it pays to be nice to The Uni.

:-)

Uni

All Things Mopar

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

Kris Zaklika commented courteously ...

> If you have been following this newsgroup, you will have
> seen recurrent suggestions to use software other than PSP
> and seen requests for comparisons between PSP and other
> software. In neither case is Corel mentioned. This is
> because Jasc and Corel products provide different
> capabilities and compete in different markets. They
> complement each other and now all these products are
> available from a single company - Corel.

Good points, Kris.

But, being that you are in the research end of Jasc, not
development (I think), not marketing, and not "senior
management", mighten we all worry that PSP will easily
survive, but inside some "Corel Suite" or other, at much
higher cost?

--
ATM

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-15, 12:14 pm

All Things Mopar wrote:
>
> Kris Zaklika commented courteously ...
>
>
> Good points, Kris.
>
> But, being that you are in the research end of Jasc, not
> development (I think), not marketing, and not "senior
> management", mighten we all worry that PSP will easily
> survive, but inside some "Corel Suite" or other, at much
> higher cost?

I and many others at Jasc have met with Corel management and
the Corel CEO. As was Jasc, Corel too is a company interested
in providing value. In the words of the Corel CEO: "We are
aggressively focused on providing software that delivers
very high value, a very high set of features and very high
compatibility with other products out there and on becoming
the value-conscious customer's and the SMB customer's
software provider of choice. Some of the other companies,
such as Microsoft and Adobe, have done a good job of cornering
the enterprise market, but the products and price points that
they offer don't always make a lot of sense for SMBs and
value-conscious customers." Don't compare the price of PSP
to the price of CorelDRAW since the products do not compete.
Instead compare CorelDRAW Graphics Suite 12 ($399) to Adobe
Illustrator CS ($499) or compare WordPerfect Office Suite 12
($300) to Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 ($499)
or Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003 ($399). The words
parallel the actions. Now compare PSP to Adobe Photoshop CS.
Do you see the correlation?

> --
> ATM

Jules

2004-10-15, 12:15 pm

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika wrote:

> Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
> working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
> Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
> Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
> Album products continue. The same people continue to
> work on the same products.

Have the Jasc team been given some sort of longer-term guarantee of that?
I wouldn't trust Corel as far as I could throw them, but Jasc have always
seemed like a friendly company with good support, and a programming team
who know what they're doing.

cheers,

Jules

Tetractys

2004-10-15, 12:15 pm

Carl Frisk wrote:

> If the smaller company can maintain profits
> and provide abstract value to the parent
> company they usually pretty much leave you
> alone.

Huh? "Abstract value?" What is that, on a
financial statement? If the smaller company
is providing cash to the larger company, look
for the larger company to eliminate the
capital budgets of the smaller company,
thereby ruining their future projects.

Tetractys

2004-10-15, 12:15 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:

> I ... met with ... the Corel CEO...
> In the words of the Corel CEO:
> "We are aggressively focused on providing
> software that delivers very high value, a very
> high set of features and very high compatibility
> with other products out there and on becoming
> the value-conscious customer's and the SMB
> customer's software provider of choice."

I do not find Dilbert-speak reassuring.

> ... compare PSP to Adobe Photoshop CS.
> Do you see the correlation?

Yes. I see the price-point of PSP increasing;
I see suite packaging, and I see marketing decisions
being made to increase the "perception of value"
as Corel defines it, not as the traditional PSP
customer has come to define it. I also see,
as a long-time WordPerfect user and long-time
PSP user, a degradation of support, coding
talent and responsiveness.

If what Corel did to WordPerfect is any clue,
new major releases will include long-standing
flaws left unaddressed and provide limited new
functionality. Major new flaws will be introduced,
and previously-functioning modules will be
removed or broken with no mention. For the
last few releases of WordPerfect, for example,
the spell checker does not work properly with
possessives (all properly-spelled words with
an apostrophe are tagged as misspelled), and
the dictionary has been unfit for use in a Kinder-
garten class (a good one is sold at additional
cost to the user). These problems will persist
despite numerous patches, and no "escalation
to Corel" will result in their resolution -- for years.

While WordPerfect was once a fine stand-alone
word processor, it is now practically unavailable
separate from the office suite, which packages
it with a set of utilities and other programs of
little value to the user of WP, but which drive
up the "value" as defined by Corel, and thus
the price point. I look for the "PSP Suite" to be
pumped up with extras and "valuable" additions,
and for the price to rise closer to that of PS CS.

I look for the kind of vapid marketing blahblah
quoted above to be plastered all over the Corel
website, and for the triumphal horns to sound
as the once-fine JASC product becomes one
crippled with the unsatisfying Corel corporate
methodology. Sorry, but I've used WordPerfect
every day for the last 20 years -- every day --
and have purchased every single upgrade. I'm
quite familiar with what a Corel takeover means
to a niche product.

There are many in the WP community who are
eager for Corel to succeed, and I am one. But
I have been disappointed in the lack of talent
at Corel focused on solving the long-standing
technical problems with WP -- there is still no
Unicode support, for example. It's very frustrating
to see a major issue, such as, say, inability to
properly format an envelope, be "escalated
to Corel," then sit for months, then years,
through patch after patch after patch, into
the next major release, then the next, before
it is finally, unsatisfactorily addressed.

This starts at the top, with the guy you quote
as saying they want to "deliver very high
value, a very high set of features" -- which I
interpret to mean "expensive bloat."

This is marketing drivel designed to impress
investors. "We will charge good money and
deliver lots of new features."

I would have been more comforted had the
CEO's comment mentioned technical excellence,
a focus on recruiting and retaining technical
personnel, and on responding to customer
issues.

Corel -- in real estate parlance -- is all about
curb appeal. The furnace doesn't work, and
there isn't any insulation in the attic, but the
house sure looks good in the advertisement.

All Things Mopar

2004-10-15, 12:15 pm

Tetractys commented courteously ...

> Kris Zaklika wrote:
>

[snip]
[color=darkred]
> I do not find Dilbert-speak reassuring.

That's precious!

> If what Corel did to WordPerfect is any clue,
> new major releases will include long-standing
> flaws left unaddressed and provide limited new
> functionality. Major new flaws will be introduced,
> and previously-functioning modules will be
> removed or broken with no mention. For the
> last few releases of WordPerfect.

[snip]

Back in 1997-98, Chrysler, where I worked, did a year-long
study whether to stay with what was termed "best of the
breed" (Lotus 1-2-3, Lotus FreeLance, and WordPerfect), go
with the emerging suites, or simply cut-over to Microsoft
Office 97.

The decision to convert to Office 97 was not a suprise to
the IT folks or the Finance folks, but it sure hit the
everyday users hard! The learning curve was very steep, lots
of people had to go to long classes to *barely* be able to
do their job, etc.

One good thing: Chrysler negotiated a deal with M$ to sell
Office 97 to all of us for our home PCs for only $26 (!).
The idea was to intice home users to learn the product,
which would help on the job.

That's a long way around the mulberry bush to my saying that
it looks like Chrysler made the right decision. WordPerfect,
1-2-3, and FreeLance were and are superior to Office, but
Office is now the "standard of the world", much like PS CS,
and you've very eloquently pointed out how an excellent
product like WordPerfect, written by a very small company,
can be completely destroyed by a greedy owner.

Too bad. I feel sorry for the pain and suffering you go
through with WP. And, of course, I'd hate to see that happen
with PSP.

It also pains me greatly that the only Jasc'er that is
active here and on the Jasc User Forums is Kris Zaklika.
Everyone learns from his many helpful tips, mini tuts,
explanation of arcane mathematical things about graphics,
etc.

But, I *really* wish that someone in Jasc Tech Support
*management* would answer the TS issues, and I *really* wish
someone in Jasc "senior management" would answer these Corel
questions, and without "Dilbert speak".

Kris sometimes acts like a Jasc "official" spokesman but
when pressed, quickly qualifies his statements as reflecting
his research function within the company. That takes nothing
away from his considerable credentials as a graphics expert,
but doesn't say much for his credibility as a Jasc
spokesman.

--

Jerry

P.S. Don't bother replying, Kris. I already know what you'd
say.

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

All Things Mopar wrote:
[snip]

> Kris sometimes acts like a Jasc "official" spokesman but
> when pressed, quickly qualifies his statements as reflecting
> his research function within the company. That takes nothing
> away from his considerable credentials as a graphics expert,
> but doesn't say much for his credibility as a Jasc
> spokesman.

I've said what is appropriate for me to say. For the official
Jasc spokesman's version, or rather Corel spokesman's version
since there is no separate Jasc company, read the web site:
http://www.jasc.com/aboutjasc/?
I never post to newsgroups or forums in any official capacity.
I simply choose not to hide my affiliation with Jasc. Any
official statements come from official sources. See this link:
http://www.jasc.com/aboutjasc/contact/?
In particular note the Director of Corporate Communications.

> --
>
> Jerry
>
> P.S. Don't bother replying, Kris. I already know what you'd
> say.

I take pride in being less predictable than you.

All Things Mopar

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

Kris Zaklika commented courteously ...

> I've said what is appropriate for me to say. For the
official
> Jasc spokesman's version, or rather Corel spokesman's
version
> since there is no separate Jasc company, read the web
site:
> http://www.jasc.com/aboutjasc/?

> I never post to newsgroups or forums in any official
capacity.
> I simply choose not to hide my affiliation with Jasc. Any
> official statements come from official sources. See this
link:
> http://www.jasc.com/aboutjasc/contact/?
> In particular note the Director of Corporate
Communications.

You should know, Dr. Zaklika, that whenever *any* person
from *any* company says something in a public forum, they
are actually acting in an official manner, even if they are
not authorized to do so by their management.

If you don't believe that, ask your lawyers...

-- Jerry

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

All Things Mopar wrote:
[snip]

> You should know, Dr. Zaklika, that whenever *any* person
> from *any* company says something in a public forum, they
> are actually acting in an official manner, even if they are
> not authorized to do so by their management.

I guess you feel that only retired and out of work persons
are entitled to speak for themselves in public. According
to you, anyone who works for a living is speaking for their
company. However, I am not. I am a former employee of Jasc,
currently working for Corel Corporation, trying to help
users of PSP understand the product and to reassure them
that we haven't all gone away because of the Jasc purchase.
If Corel has a different policy about my participation in
newsgroups than did Jasc, I will follow that policy.

Jim Thompson

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:59:23 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
wrote:

>All Things Mopar wrote:
>[snip]
>
>
>I guess you feel that only retired and out of work persons
>are entitled to speak for themselves in public. According
>to you, anyone who works for a living is speaking for their
>company. However, I am not. I am a former employee of Jasc,
>currently working for Corel Corporation, trying to help
>users of PSP understand the product and to reassure them
>that we haven't all gone away because of the Jasc purchase.
>If Corel has a different policy about my participation in
>newsgroups than did Jasc, I will follow that policy.

"All Things Mopar" is incorrect. _Official_statements_ can only come
from _officers_, or specifically-designated spokespersons.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Retiredff

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:

> If Corel has a different policy about my participation in
> newsgroups than did Jasc, I will follow that policy.

And we will all keep our fingers crossed that there policy is in line with
the company formerly known as Jasc!

All Things Mopar

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

Jim Thompson commented courteously ...

> "All Things Mopar" is incorrect. _Official_statements_
can
> only come from _officers_, or specifically-designated
> spokespersons.

You are right in what you say, but that does not make what I
said incorrect. Let's review a few things.

U.S. Labor Law differentiates between active (on-roll) and
inactive (laid off or retireed) employees, which goes to Dr.
Zaklika's retort to me in a post above. U.S. Labor Law also
deals with the complexities of what is known as "implied
employment", which most often comes up with temps and
contractors.

Bob Voit, owner of the former Jasc, and the CEO of Corel
can, and did, make *official* statements about what has
happened so far and what everyone can expect in the future.
These statements are necessarily vague for what should be
obvious reasons.

Spokespersons for a U.S. Corporations must be authorized by
an Officer to make "official" statements to the press, as
you observed in your comment to me. However, and this is a
*big* however, it is very easy for an authorized spokesman
to stray from the "approved" statement during a press
interview or in a variety of other ways, such as posting to
a company-sponsor User Forum or to a Usenet NG.

Then, there are a variety of ways that people below the rank
of Officer come in contact with the press. They may have
many titles, some even as so-called "executives" of the
company. What they say technically is *not* approved by an
officer (how could it be, it is speaking extemporaneously)
and may not even represent the management direction of their
company.

Then we have "on the record" and "off the record". But, I'll
put that confusion aside for now...

I know nothing at all about Canadaian corporate or employee
law, nor do I know anything substantial about the specific
laws governing a privately held company, such as Jasc
formerly was.

But, in my company, which was publically held in the U.S.
prior to a merger with DaimlerChrysler AG, over the years
there were a very large number of cases where executives,
managers, engineers, marketing specialists, financial
analysts, what have you, make statements without official
authorization that later came back to haunt the company in
court battles over such things as product liability, full
financial disclosure, shareholder lawsuits, express or
implied promises to perform, product content and direction,
and the like.

What someone from Jasc chooses to say or not say is entirely
their business. I was simply commenting that an employee,
particularly someone of Dr. Zaklika's position in the
company, should not make off-hand comments which might be
construed by the public as being the official position of
the company.

Again, this is less an issue for a privately held company,
as there is no risk of investors being misled. Having said
that, I believe that Dr. Zaklika has commented in the past
that Jasc did have a Board of Directors, and I imagine that
Corel does as well, under the appropriate Canadian statutes
governing privately held corporations.

In conclusion, employees of a company, public or private,
cannot close the door to corporate liability when making
statements after normal business hours. It isn't that
simple. And, IMHO, it is far more dangerous to quote would-
be policy on Usenet than it is when talking to the press.

Keep in mind, these are my educated opinions based on
working with attorneys on a variety of legal issues,
principally copyright, trademark, and information security,
although early in my career as an engineer I did assist
attorneys doing work to defend the company in product
liability cases. I am not an attorney or paralegal and do
not claim to be giving legal advice in any form.

--

Jerry

fugitive

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

>I and many others at Jasc have met with Corel management and
>the Corel CEO. As was Jasc, Corel too is a company interested
>in providing value. In the words of the Corel CEO: "We are
>aggressively focused on providing software that delivers
>very high value, a very high set of features and very high
>compatibility with other products out there and on becoming
>the value-conscious customer's and the SMB customer's
>software provider of choice. Some of the other companies,
>such as Microsoft and Adobe, have done a good job of cornering
>the enterprise market, but the products and price points that
>they offer don't always make a lot of sense for SMBs and
>value-conscious customers." Don't compare the price of PSP
>to the price of CorelDRAW since the products do not compete.
>Instead compare CorelDRAW Graphics Suite 12 ($399) to Adobe
>Illustrator CS ($499) or compare WordPerfect Office Suite 12
>($300) to Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 ($499)
>or Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003 ($399). The words
>parallel the actions. Now compare PSP to Adobe Photoshop CS.
>Do you see the correlation?

Maybe ot, but I was part of a nice company, bought by a larger one.
Anyone ever hear of North American Aviation? The built the Saturn 5,
Apollo of moon shot fame. While I was still working there in, 1968
the name changed to North American Rockwell, and some time later, to
Rockwell. Fully obsorbed. Like an octopus, eating smaller octopi.

Mike Kozlowski

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

In article <416EC1F9.F5A6839@jasc.com>,
Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote:

>Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
>working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
>Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
>Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
>Album products continue. The same people continue to
>work on the same products.

Sure, right now. But Corel's entire corporate history basically
consists of 1) making CorelDraw, and 2) buying products and then
making them suck. It's hard to believe that the powerful Sucking
Force Corel emanates will fail to taint PSP.

--
Mike Kozlowski
http://www.klio.org/mlk/

SVTKate

2004-10-15, 7:15 pm

I think it stinks.
It seldom happens that a product remains as good as it once was once aquired
by a larger company. Politics always becomes a factor.
I personally think this stinks.

Oh! And speaking of upgrades, I purchased mine, have yet to receive it!

Kate
PSP user since Ver. 4

"Brendan R. Wehrung" <ck183@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:ckmtd9$m35$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...
|
| fugitive (gregfarr@earthlink..net) writes:
| > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:14:17 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
| > wrote:
| >
| >>Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
| >>>
| >>> All Things Mopar wrote:
| >>> >
| >>>
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satell...d=1047023901915
| >>>
| >>> Another one bites the dust. Adobe bought Cool Edit,
| >>> Sony bought Video Factory, now Corel buys JASC. It
| >>> always makes me sad, because the small, indepedent
| >>> companies may have flaws, but their personnel are
| >>> present and human, and their products reflect needs
| >>> that actual individual users present in places like
| >>> this newsgroup.
| >>>
| >>> If I'm gonna buy Corel, why not just buy Adobe? What's
| >>> the difference now?
| >>
| >>Price and value for money. Jasc is still here and still
| >>working in the same way as before. It's simply part of
| >>Corel right now. The Paint Shop brand remains and the
| >>Paint Shop Pro, Paint Shop Studio and Paint Shop Photo
| >>Album products continue. The same people continue to
| >>work on the same products.
| >>
| >>> Dennis
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > They also said that Chrysler would still be Chrysler after being
| > bought by the German co. That is very suspect.
| > I'm so sorry that this happened, but I guess some of the higher ups
| > with benefit with more green. Would anyone ever be willing to tell the
| > whole truth about the deal?
|
|
| The worse thing for upgraders is that Corel is VERY interested in
| maintaining a "list" price, rarely offering anything other than the
| standard deal.
|
| Brendan
| --
|
|

Sally Beacham

2004-10-15, 11:14 pm

"Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
news:416FBF0C.40CE616B@jasc.com...
> All Things Mopar wrote:
>
> I and many others at Jasc have met with Corel management and
> the Corel CEO. As was Jasc, Corel too is a company interested
> in providing value. In the words of the Corel CEO: "We are
> aggressively focused on providing software that delivers
> very high value, a very high set of features and very high
> compatibility with other products out there and on becoming
> the value-conscious customer's and the SMB customer's
> software provider of choice. Some of the other companies,
> such as Microsoft and Adobe, have done a good job of cornering
> the enterprise market, but the products and price points that
> they offer don't always make a lot of sense for SMBs and
> value-conscious customers." Don't compare the price of PSP
> to the price of CorelDRAW since the products do not compete.
> Instead compare CorelDRAW Graphics Suite 12 ($399) to Adobe
> Illustrator CS ($499) or compare WordPerfect Office Suite 12
> ($300) to Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 ($499)
> or Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003 ($399). The words
> parallel the actions. Now compare PSP to Adobe Photoshop CS.
> Do you see the correlation?

I am very encouraged by this news - I've used many Corel products, including
the Graphics Suite, and Painter, and have wished that many of the things
I've liked in those products could become part of PSP. Who knew?

I think it's a good sign that Venture has remodeled the historically
embattled Corel structure (three cheers for the American Way ;-)))))) A
bigger company doesn't have to mean bad things - lots more company resources
now can be used to give me goodies.

Kris, Kris, can I have a textile filter now? How about a better gradient
tool? How about... objects on a path?

Now's a good time to ask Santa.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Carl Frisk

2004-10-15, 11:14 pm

Not so. If a company can buy another company that provides intangible assets like a strong partnership\working
relationship into another company or market segment that they couldn't reach before, it goes on the bottom line in the
decision making process and in the addendums of the financial statements. Eventually marketing will pick that point up
and spread the word. As I think we have already begun to see with Corel/JASC. This is a good sign. Corel wanted JASC
for the still growing digital photography market. Amish Metah stated this without mentioning JASC around January of
this year if I remember right.
One thing Amish is, is smart and knows how to make money. That's his job. He knows full well how to spend money to
make money. Hopefully he sees the sense in budgeting JASC well enough to accomplish the market penetration he is
seeking. This doesn't mean that JASC won't see a budget restructure, it will. How it plays out is anyone's guess, even
Amish's. Amish is not afraid to spend money to make money, that is a plus for JASC. He also will be watching for
returns much more closely than the current culture at JASC is used to IMO.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

"Tetractys" <usenetdog@tetractysdog.com> wrote in message news:VtadnaTwuaHASPLcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> Carl Frisk wrote:
>
>
> Huh? "Abstract value?" What is that, on a
> financial statement? If the smaller company
> is providing cash to the larger company, look
> for the larger company to eliminate the
> capital budgets of the smaller company,
> thereby ruining their future projects.
>

Carl Frisk

2004-10-15, 11:14 pm

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:ckpmim0112l@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
> news:416FBF0C.40CE616B@jasc.com...
>
> I am very encouraged by this news - I've used many Corel products, including
> the Graphics Suite, and Painter, and have wished that many of the things
> I've liked in those products could become part of PSP. Who knew?
>
> I think it's a good sign that Venture has remodeled the historically
> embattled Corel structure (three cheers for the American Way ;-)))))) A
> bigger company doesn't have to mean bad things - lots more company resources
> now can be used to give me goodies.
>
> Kris, Kris, can I have a textile filter now? How about a better gradient
> tool? How about... objects on a path?
>
> Now's a good time to ask Santa.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)
>
>
>

That's Vector Capital not Venture. Great feature requests BTW!
http://www.vectorcapital.com/

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

Uni

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Carl Frisk wrote:
> "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <bathory@bathory.org> wrote in message
> news:1097804086.dNxIw9j0ngQE77reo3ohIQ@onlynews...
>
>
>
> After downsizing they are under $120M in revenue, though most likely
> more profitable now because of it. This information is from Amish Mehta
> the acting CEO of Corel. Amish is a principle of Vector Capital who owns
> Corel.

Amish Mehta, eh? Nice all American name, I must say.

:-)

Uni

Corel is sort of Amish's pet project right now. If you read his
> interviews you will see two threads. Marketing and Competing With
> Microsoft. Marketing channels and Amish are almost the same thing. I'd
> say he bought JASC for their brand and for their marketing channel.
> Note that in Amish's mind it's Word Perfect first, Draw second.
> Interestingly enough Amish is the only one not in the 'team photo' for
> Vector Capital.
>
> For those who care if you trace back to Vector Capital and get their
> thinking you'll see exactly why JASC was bought by Corel/Vector Capital.
>
> So, Corel is a very small company in the world of today's companies.
> Vector Capital could light a fire with $120M every day of the week for
> the rest of the year and not even notice it was gone. Most likely they
> would toast marshmellows on the fire. Vector Capital is no giant in the
> world of VCs (Venture Capitalists).
>
> Also owned by Vector Capital is Real Networks.
>

Cliff

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:35:59 GMT, "Carl Frisk"
<carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Also owned by Vector Capital is Real Networks.

Now there's a comforting statement if I ever saw one.

Uni

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Kris Zaklika wrote:
> All Things Mopar wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
> I guess you feel that only retired and out of work persons
> are entitled to speak for themselves in public. According
> to you, anyone who works for a living is speaking for their
> company. However, I am not. I am a former employee of Jasc,
> currently working for Corel Corporation, trying to help
> users of PSP understand the product and to reassure them
> that we haven't all gone away because of the Jasc purchase.
> If Corel has a different policy about my participation in
> newsgroups than did Jasc, I will follow that policy.

Not to worry, Kris. You can always use an alias and Amish Mehta will
know nothing about your usenet activity. Honest!!!

:-)

Uni

Uni

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Cliff wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:35:59 GMT, "Carl Frisk"
> <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Now there's a comforting statement if I ever saw one.

Wait a second, Cliff. Is that the Real Player Real Network? I haven't
come across a Real Player file in ages!!!!

:-)

Uni

Uni

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Sally Beacham wrote:
> "Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
> news:416FBF0C.40CE616B@jasc.com...
>
>
>
> I am very encouraged by this news - I've used many Corel products, including
> the Graphics Suite, and Painter, and have wished that many of the things
> I've liked in those products could become part of PSP. Who knew?
>
> I think it's a good sign that Venture has remodeled the historically
> embattled Corel structure (three cheers for the American Way ;-)))))) A
> bigger company doesn't have to mean bad things - lots more company resources
> now can be used to give me goodies.
>
> Kris, Kris, can I have a textile filter now? How about a better gradient
> tool? How about... objects on a path?
>
> Now's a good time to ask Santa.
>
>

Hey, Sally, are you and Ron Lacey going to team up again and write books
about Corel Software, now?

:-)

Uni

Brendan R. Wehrung

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

All Things Mopar (none@none.xxx) writes:
> Kris Zaklika commented courteously ...
>
>
> Good points, Kris.
>
> But, being that you are in the research end of Jasc, not
> development (I think), not marketing, and not "senior
> management", mighten we all worry that PSP will easily
> survive, but inside some "Corel Suite" or other, at much
> higher cost?
>
> --
> ATM

Or a redux dumbed down version of Corel Essentials, with (say) Draw 10 and
PSP 8 minus vector capabilities)? It ight actually be quite capable, at
that.

Brendan

--

Brendan R. Wehrung

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Kris Zaklika (kzaklika@jasc.com) writes:[color=darkred]
> All Things Mopar wrote:
>
> I and many others at Jasc have met with Corel management and
> the Corel CEO. As was Jasc, Corel too is a company interested
> in providing value. In the words of the Corel CEO: "We are
> aggressively focused on providing software that delivers
> very high value, a very high set of features and very high
> compatibility with other products out there and on becoming
> the value-conscious customer's and the SMB customer's
> software provider of choice. Some of the other companies,
> such as Microsoft and Adobe, have done a good job of cornering
> the enterprise market, but the products and price points that
> they offer don't always make a lot of sense for SMBs and
> value-conscious customers." Don't compare the price of PSP
> to the price of CorelDRAW since the products do not compete.
> Instead compare CorelDRAW Graphics Suite 12 ($399) to Adobe
> Illustrator CS ($499) or compare WordPerfect Office Suite 12
> ($300) to Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 ($499)
> or Microsoft Office Standard Edition 2003 ($399). The words
> parallel the actions. Now compare PSP to Adobe Photoshop CS.
> Do you see the correlation?
>

Unless they change their marketing tactics, the active words for Corel are
"price points". I'm one of those patient shoppers who will live with old
versions until the bugs are corrected (started with PSP 7.02 and 8.10
instead of being an early adopter) and they offered a sale price ($30 each
time, as I recall). I waited through two versions of Word Perfect and
Corel Draw Suite before finding a price that wasn't the standard Corel
"sale price" marketed in a number of ways. They are active endorers of
price fixing (excuse me, "manufacturer suggested price") and stick to it
pretty religiously. Well, I bought CD12 and can wait for PSP10 if needed,
having 8 (which I am happy with), unless they do a dump of current boxed 9
instead of just pasting stickers on the current boxed product logos.

Maybe I'll look for a $30 special on Elements 3 meantime. Can't have too
many image editors and it rpobably won't be as castrated as 2 is.

Brendan
--

Brendan R. Wehrung

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

All Things Mopar (none@none.xxx) writes:
>
> But, I *really* wish that someone in Jasc Tech Support
> *management* would answer the TS issues, and I *really* wish
> someone in Jasc "senior management" would answer these Corel
> questions, and without "Dilbert speak".
>
> Kris sometimes acts like a Jasc "official" spokesman but
> when pressed, quickly qualifies his statements as reflecting
> his research function within the company. That takes nothing
> away from his considerable credentials as a graphics expert,
> but doesn't say much for his credibility as a Jasc
> spokesman.
>

User groups under Support on the Corel web site are usually helpful for
all but the most stubborn problems. Sort of like here.

And they lack a Uni.

Brendan
--

Uni

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
> All Things Mopar (none@none.xxx) writes:
>
>
>
> User groups under Support on the Corel web site are usually helpful for
> all but the most stubborn problems. Sort of like here.
>
> And they lack a Uni.

My advice, stick with an American owned software company, like Adobe!

:-)

Uni

Tetractys

2004-10-16, 4:14 am

Carl Frisk wrote:

> If a company can buy another company that
> provides intangible assets like a strong
> partnership\working relationship into another
> company or market segment that they couldn't
> reach before, it goes on the bottom line in the
> decision making process and in the addendums
> of the financial statements.

The "bottom line" is not "in the decision-making
process" and does not show up in the addenda.
It's all about the Benjamins, and they're on
pages 1 and 2.

> Eventually marketing will pick that point up
> and spread the word.

Hallelujah, amen.

> As I think we have already begun to see with
> Corel/JASC.

That fast, huh?

> This is a good sign.

If you're reading signs already, then you're
flying on a hopeful carpet. I'm reading the record.

> One thing Amish is, is smart and knows how
> to make money. That's his job.

That's my point. He knows how to make money,
not software. I'm not an investor, I'm a user.

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-16, 12:14 pm

SVTKate wrote:
>
> I think it stinks.
> It seldom happens that a product remains as good as it once was once aquired
> by a larger company.

By various measures, prior to the purchase Corel was about
three times the size of Jasc. Technically that makes Corel
a larger company but not very much larger. The Corel people
are very much like the Jasc people, right down to the winter
weather both have to live through at their respective
locations.

> Politics always becomes a factor.
> I personally think this stinks.

I'm much more optimistic than you.

> Oh! And speaking of upgrades, I purchased mine, have yet to receive it!

See my reply to your other thread on this topic.

[snip]

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-16, 12:14 pm

Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
> In article <416EC1F9.F5A6839@jasc.com>,
> Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sure, right now. But Corel's entire corporate history basically
> consists of 1) making CorelDraw, and 2) buying products and then
> making them suck. It's hard to believe that the powerful Sucking
> Force Corel emanates will fail to taint PSP.

Corel's entire corporate history is irrelevant. The company
is now owned by a Vector Capital, an investor with a focus
on results. Nobody at Corel is doing things the old way and
there will be a sharper focus at Jasc too. The latest release
of Painter, for instance, has received a very positive
reception.

> --
> Mike Kozlowski
> http://www.klio.org/mlk/

Uni

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

Tetractys wrote:
> Carl Frisk wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The "bottom line" is not "in the decision-making
> process" and does not show up in the addenda.
> It's all about the Benjamins, and they're on
> pages 1 and 2.
>
>
>
>
> Hallelujah, amen.
>
>
>
>
> That fast, huh?
>
>
>
>
> If you're reading signs already, then you're
> flying on a hopeful carpet. I'm reading the record.
>
>
>
>
> That's my point. He knows how to make money,

It is obvious from the price of Epicor software!

:-)

If I remember correctly, it's over $100,000 USD!

:-)

It is sad that Mr. Voit sold out to foreigners.

Uni

> not software. I'm not an investor, I'm a user.
>
>

Tetractys

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:

> Corel's entire corporate history is irrelevant.
> The company is now owned by a Vector
> Capital, an investor with a focus on results.

By that same logic, the entire history of JASC
is now irrelevant. They are now owned by Corel.
You can't have it both ways -- ignoring corporate
history when it's convenient, bringing it up when
it suits your point. Either corporate history matters
or it doesn't. I say it does, in both cases.

> Nobody at Corel is doing things the old way
> and there will be a sharper focus at Jasc too.

On what? Other posts, including your own, have
indicated the focus will be on increasing features
and value. These are key words to investors, not
to users. I do hope you are correct, and the
sharper focus is not on increasing perceived
value to maximize profit, but on increasing
service, support, repair, stability and compatibility
in order to solidify the user base. If Vector, Corel,
JASC can do that in the short term, then I
will be very happy, and will speak just as
long and loud in praise of the new ownership.

> The latest release of Painter, for instance, has
> received a very positive reception.

The latest release of WordPerfect has not.
It continues the Corel tradition of not fixing
bugs, of charging a high price for little or no
improvement, and of introducing new problems,
then not addressing them in patches. Many
WordPerfect users are uninstalling WP12
and going all the way back to WP8 SP3 in
order to have a product with a good set of
functioning features. That's when Corel bought
WP. After that, the history has not been good.
The introduction of Vector to the equation has
done nothing to dispel the grumbling.

fugitive

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:26:45 -0500, Kris Zaklika <kzaklika@jasc.com>
wrote:

>SVTKate wrote:
>
>By various measures, prior to the purchase Corel was about
>three times the size of Jasc. Technically that makes Corel
>a larger company but not very much larger. The Corel people
>are very much like the Jasc people, right down to the winter
>weather both have to live through at their respective
>locations.
>
>
>I'm much more optimistic than you.
>
>
>See my reply to your other thread on this topic.
>
>[snip]

None of us was born pessimistic, life just has it's way with you. I
hope your correct, and that all works out well, but stuff happened.
Enron still owns my Elect company. My rates went up 33% in one day.
Remember Rambler, bought by Chrysler, not any more, gone.

All Things Mopar

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

Tetractys commented courteously ...

> By that same logic, the entire history of JASC
> is now irrelevant. They are now owned by Corel.
> You can't have it both ways -- ignoring corporate
> history when it's convenient, bringing it up when
> it suits your point. Either corporate history matters
> or it doesn't. I say it does, in both cases.

No one from Corel (formerly Jasc) is going to give you any
specifics even if they know. I've challenged Kris before to
no avail to get someone who is authorized to speak to these
issues to make a public statement, but he prefers to shoot
from the hip on his own.

I give him great kudos for his considerable technical skill,
but he has no credibility with me when talking about Corel's
management positions.

That's my opinion, your mileage may vary ...

--
Jerry

"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be
explained by stupidity!"

Uni

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

All Things Mopar wrote:
> Tetractys commented courteously ...
>
>
>
>
> No one from Corel (formerly Jasc) is going to give you any
> specifics even if they know. I've challenged Kris before to
> no avail to get someone who is authorized to speak to these
> issues to make a public statement, but he prefers to shoot
> from the hip on his own.
>
> I give him great kudos for his considerable technical skill

It is obvious that his technical skill didn't take PSP to higher
grounds, as he expected. Oh, well, just one more American based software
company absorbed by foreigners.

:-)

Amen, Allah

:-)

Uni

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-16, 7:15 pm

Tetractys wrote:
[snip]

>
> That's my point. He knows how to make money,
> not software. I'm not an investor, I'm a user.

Actually, Amish Mehta has quite extensive and successful
experience with software companies:
http://www.vectorcapital.com/team/robert.htm
You'll also see that he is a very bright individual indeed.
From where I'm sitting, with kids to put through college,
making money is not an evil. Meanwhile, all of us here are
planning to make plenty of software for you to use.

Sally Beacham

2004-10-16, 11:14 pm

"Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zH%bd.465$7d7.352@trnddc04...
> "Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message
news:ckpmim0112l@news2.newsguy.com...
including[color=darkred]
A[color=darkred]
resources[color=darkred]
gradient[color=darkred]
>
> That's Vector Capital not Venture. Great feature requests BTW!
> http://www.vectorcapital.com/

Yeah, I know, I was tired... venture capital, Vector Capital, ... you get
the drift.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Uni

2004-10-16, 11:14 pm

Kris Zaklika wrote:
> Tetractys wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
> Actually, Amish Mehta has quite extensive and successful
> experience with software companies:
> http://www.vectorcapital.com/team/robert.htm
> You'll also see that he is a very bright individual indeed.

His only goal is to team up similar product software companies, like
when Epicor bought out Vista. Vista only has 3000 companies using their
software. Epicor originally offered Vantage. Only the largest of large
companies could afford it. But now Epicor can offer Vista, a barebone,
cheaper piece of software as an alternative to the overpriced Vantage,
both MRP applications. In my opinion, PSP won't be Corel's flagship
application, but like Vista, a cheaper alternative to Corel's Painter.
If Mehta was so bright, he would have financially helped Jasc, instead
of having Corel buy you out.

Uni

Tetractys

2004-10-16, 11:14 pm

Kris Zaklika
> Tetractys wrote:

[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Actually, Amish Mehta has quite extensive and successful
> experience with software companies:
> http://www.vectorcapital.com/team/robert.htm

I am quite familiar with Manugistics, thank you,
having been a user and purchaser of Statgraphics
for a long, long time. The history of that application
is not a pleasant one for the user.

> You'll also see that he is a very bright individual indeed.
> From where I'm sitting, with kids to put through college,
> making money is not an evil. Meanwhile, all of us here are
> planning to make plenty of software for you to use.

Making money is fine. I wish you well. I wish Corel well.
I wish Amish Mehta well. I also hope that the development
of future versions of Corel products and the support
offered for current ones follows a path different from
that described by the past, where the money flowed
into Corel, but the value stream outward was not
commensurate.

Carl Frisk

2004-10-17, 7:14 am

Yeah easy to do esp. when tired. Since Vector Capital is a venture capital company:)

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:cks7v80181o@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zH%bd.465$7d7.352@trnddc04...
> news:ckpmim0112l@news2.newsguy.com...
> including
> A
> resources
> gradient
>
> Yeah, I know, I was tired... venture capital, Vector Capital, ... you get
> the drift.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)
>
>
>

McGrandpa

2004-10-17, 7:14 am

"Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
news:41718713.8A4484F2@jasc.com
> Tetractys wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
> Actually, Amish Mehta has quite extensive and successful
> experience with software companies:
> http://www.vectorcapital.com/team/robert.htm
> You'll also see that he is a very bright individual indeed.
> From where I'm sitting, with kids to put through college,
> making money is not an evil. Meanwhile, all of us here are
> planning to make plenty of software for you to use.

And that is really all we need, isn't it? :) I am really glad that
things are working well for you folks at Jasc, Kris. It's no issue to
me if the Corel logo is on the package, as long as the folks at Jasc are
still putting Paint Shop Pro in the package :)

SVTKate

2004-10-17, 7:14 am

....and that Kris will be willing and able to offer his kind assistance as he
has in the past.

Why did this thread suddenly begin to look like a Witch Hunt and Kris the
hunted? He's a nice guy folks, chill out a little
Hell, when it all comes down to it, it's just a damn piece of software! If
it all goes to hell in a hand basket, yea, we'll be disappointed, but so
what!

There is no reason for things to get so ugly.

Kate

Sally Beacham

2004-10-17, 12:14 pm

"Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eKqcd.577$EP4.564@trnddc06...
> Yeah easy to do esp. when tired. Since Vector Capital is a venture
capital company:)

Yeah, and we venture to use vectors all the time... some of us more
adventurously than others.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Carl Frisk

2004-10-17, 7:14 pm

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:cktvlh07ah@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eKqcd.577$EP4.564@trnddc06...
> capital company:)
>
> Yeah, and we venture to use vectors all the time... some of us more
> adventurously than others.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)
>
>
>

ROTFL :) I venture to say you have quite a wry sense of humor Sally.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-17, 7:14 pm

Carl Frisk wrote:
>
> "Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:cktvlh07ah@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> ROTFL :) I venture to say you have quite a wry sense of humor Sally.

Yes, she frequently capitalizes on it. Now she's learned to
Corelate her wording too :)

> --
> ...Carl Frisk
> Anger is a brief madness.
> - Horace, 20 B.C.
> http://www.carlfrisk.net

Sally Beacham

2004-10-17, 11:15 pm

"Kris Zaklika" <kz@visi.com> wrote in message
news:4172EEEC.A48A0BF7@visi.com...
> Carl Frisk wrote:
news:cktvlh07ah@news2.newsguy.com...[color=darkred]
>
> Yes, she frequently capitalizes on it. Now she's learned to
> Corelate her wording too :)
>

Am I to assume that your fellow employees are now Corelatives?

You got me started. This could get ugly.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Carl Frisk

2004-10-17, 11:15 pm

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:ckurnr014jj@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> "Kris Zaklika" <kz@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:4172EEEC.A48A0BF7@visi.com...
> news:cktvlh07ah@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> Am I to assume that your fellow employees are now Corelatives?
>
> You got me started. This could get ugly.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)
>
>
>

Won't get ugly if we corral it in, in time.

Sally Beacham

2004-10-17, 11:15 pm

"Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2rDcd.7081$232.5516@trnddc09...
> "Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message
news:ckurnr014jj@news4.newsguy.com...
venture[color=darkred]
>
> Won't get ugly if we corral it in, in time.

Can we please stay on a Corelevant topic?

Otherwise I will have to Corelinquish my spot in this thread and go in
search of supper.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Carl Frisk

2004-10-18, 4:14 am

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:ckv16o01a8p@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> "Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2rDcd.7081$232.5516@trnddc09...
> news:ckurnr014jj@news4.newsguy.com...
> venture
>
> Can we please stay on a Corelevant topic?
>
> Otherwise I will have to Corelinquish my spot in this thread and go in
> search of supper.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)
>
>
>

At least it says OT in the subject or I would have to come up with some sort of Corelation between this post and all the
previous posts in this thread. Hope you had a good meal:)

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

Carl Frisk

2004-10-18, 4:14 am

"Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:WjIcd.2592$TW4.2589@trnddc07...
> "Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message news:ckv16o01a8p@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> At least it says OT in the subject or I would have to come up with some sort of Corelation between this post and all
> the previous posts in this thread. Hope you had a good meal:)
>
> --
> ...Carl Frisk
> Anger is a brief madness.
> - Horace, 20 B.C.
> http://www.carlfrisk.net

Actually I meant to say 'I would have to "draw some sort of Corelation"'.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net

Kris Zaklika

2004-10-18, 4:14 am

Carl Frisk wrote:
>
> "Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:WjIcd.2592$TW4.2589@trnddc07...
>
> Actually I meant to say 'I would have to "draw some sort of Corelation"'.

Even though this is a PSP group, I see you can't stop the
R.A.V.E. about CorelDRAW. The correction makes your post
WordPerfect. Perhaps you should have a Painter make some
DRAWings of it. He can CorelTRACE the text and apply some
PHOTO-PAINT to it, running it through the JPEG Optimizer
in PSP for posting to a binaries newsgroup. He can KnockOut
all this stuff while keeping his Studio clean by organizing
his work in an Album. If he needs to make Presentations, he
can drive his Audi Quattro Pro to get there. I suppose he
will keep his Kai Power Tools in the trunk in case they are
needed as Essentials on Hwy 101 to Ventura.

In case you were wondering: http://tinyurl.com/4jyxq and,
no, I don't work in Marketing :)

> --
> ...Carl Frisk
> Anger is a brief madness.
> - Horace, 20 B.C.
> http://www.carlfrisk.net

Sally Beacham

2004-10-18, 12:14 pm

"Kris Zaklika" <kz@visi.com> wrote in message
news:4173640D.65F811DF@visi.com...
> Carl Frisk wrote:
news:WjIcd.2592$TW4.2589@trnddc07...[color=darkred]
news:ckv16o01a8p@news4.newsguy.com...[color=darkred]
us more[color=darkred]
Sally.[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
some sort of Corelation between this post and all[color=darkred]
Corelation"'.[color=darkred]
>
> Even though this is a PSP group, I see you can't stop the
> R.A.V.E. about CorelDRAW. The correction makes your post
> WordPerfect. Perhaps you should have a Painter make some
> DRAWings of it. He can CorelTRACE the text and apply some
> PHOTO-PAINT to it, running it through the JPEG Optimizer
> in PSP for posting to a binaries newsgroup. He can KnockOut
> all this stuff while keeping his Studio clean by organizing
> his work in an Album. If he needs to make Presentations, he
> can drive his Audi Quattro Pro to get there. I suppose he
> will keep his Kai Power Tools in the trunk in case they are
> needed as Essentials on Hwy 101 to Ventura.
>
> In case you were wondering: http://tinyurl.com/4jyxq and,
> no, I don't work in Marketing :)

I was looking for the leftover Bryce and beans for a snack, but somebody ate
it already. Musta been my friend Xara. See if we invite HER over again.

I told you it was gonna get ugly.

--
Sally Beacham
www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

fugitive

2004-10-18, 7:15 pm

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:40:36 -0400, "Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com>
wrote:

>
>"Kris Zaklika" <kz@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:4173640D.65F811DF@visi.com...
>news:WjIcd.2592$TW4.2589@trnddc07...
>news:ckv16o01a8p@news4.newsguy.com...
>us more
>Sally.
>in
>some sort of Corelation between this post and all
>Corelation"'.
>
>I was looking for the leftover Bryce and beans for a snack, but somebody ate
>it already. Musta been my friend Xara. See if we invite HER over again.
>
>I told you it was gonna get ugly.

You've passed ugly, into the next zone. Please stop, before all
passengers barf.

McGrandpa

2004-10-18, 7:16 pm

"Sally Beacham" <catintheh@t.com> wrote in message
news:ckv16o01a8p@news4.newsguy.com
> "Carl Frisk" <carlf13@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2rDcd.7081$232.5516@trnddc09...
> news:ckurnr014jj@news4.newsguy.com...
> venture
>
> Can we please stay on a Corelevant topic?
>
> Otherwise I will have to Corelinquish my spot in this thread and go in
> search of supper.
>
>
> --
> Sally Beacham
> www.dizteq.com / www.lvsonline.com
> Paint Shop Pro 8 Zero to Hero
> Digital Scrapbooking (Course Technology)

Ya'll fix supper, I'll Paint the Shop like a Pro ;)
McG.

2pods

2004-10-18, 7:16 pm

"Kris Zaklika" <kzaklika@jasc.com> wrote in message
news:416FAAF8.2D2ED63F@jasc.com...
> Cory Seedan wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
> By various measures Corel is a company about three times
> the size of Jasc and, like Jasc, is privately held.
>
>
> If you have been following this newsgroup, you will have
> seen recurrent suggestions to use software other than PSP
> and seen requests for comparisons between PSP and other
> software. In neither case is Corel mentioned. This is
> because Jasc and Corel products provide different capabilities
> and compete in different markets. They complement each other
> and now all these products are available from a single
> company - Corel.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Thank you.

Yet another favourite program bought up.

Symantec bought Powerquest, no more Drive Image, "have our Ghost program
instead"

Well, I was going to upgrade to PSPv9, but now I don't know.
I use to have Coreldraw v.5 (shudder)

fugitive

2004-10-18, 11:14 pm

>
>Ya'll fix supper, I'll Paint the Shop like a Pro ;)
>McG.
>

OMG, I'm gonna Ralph!

Michelle

2004-10-18, 11:14 pm