Adobe Illustrator - VECTOR or Not?...You be the judge!

Author

VECTOR or Not?...You be the judge!

woodsie

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

well i've seen some vector work in my time but this BLOWS THE MIND.

however, since i can't read any of the details (does anyone read asian
languages here???) i have my doubts on what was actually done and used
(eg. photoshoping, 3d,..... streamline anyone) to achieve the end result.

i'll let you guys be the judge on this one....

http://www.photoshopcn.com/bbs/view...=150569&fpage=1

http://www.geocities.jp/real_trace/

ps. the first link contains alot of pics so it might take a while to load
but it's certainly worth the wait.

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

woodsie wrote:
> well i've seen some vector work in my time but this BLOWS THE MIND.
>
> however, since i can't read any of the details (does anyone read asian
> languages here???) i have my doubts on what was actually done and used
> (eg. photoshoping, 3d,..... streamline anyone) to achieve the end result.
>
> i'll let you guys be the judge on this one....
>
> http://www.photoshopcn.com/bbs/view...=150569&fpage=1
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/real_trace/
>
> ps. the first link contains alot of pics so it might take a while to load
> but it's certainly worth the wait.
Yes, it's very impressive.. 3D generated and enhanced in Photoshop and
Illustrator...

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

MArtin Chiselwitt wrote:
> woodsie wrote:
>
>
> Yes, it's very impressive.. 3D generated and enhanced in Photoshop and
> Illustrator...
Actually, i am not at all sure how he has made these..... :0

Matt Bostock

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

I refuse to believe that
http://www.aiclub.cn/images/upload/...6/29/053711.jpg is vector....
look at the blur in the background.

Matt

woodsie wrote:
> well i've seen some vector work in my time but this BLOWS THE MIND.
>
> however, since i can't read any of the details (does anyone read asian
> languages here???) i have my doubts on what was actually done and used
> (eg. photoshoping, 3d,..... streamline anyone) to achieve the end result.
>
> i'll let you guys be the judge on this one....
>
> http://www.photoshopcn.com/bbs/view...=150569&fpage=1
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/real_trace/
>
> ps. the first link contains alot of pics so it might take a while to load
> but it's certainly worth the wait.

Matt Bostock

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

If those really are vector... they are obscenely good. Better even than
3D renders.

Matt

woodsie wrote:
> well i've seen some vector work in my time but this BLOWS THE MIND.
>
> however, since i can't read any of the details (does anyone read asian
> languages here???) i have my doubts on what was actually done and used
> (eg. photoshoping, 3d,..... streamline anyone) to achieve the end result.
>
> i'll let you guys be the judge on this one....
>
> http://www.photoshopcn.com/bbs/view...=150569&fpage=1
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/real_trace/
>
> ps. the first link contains alot of pics so it might take a while to load
> but it's certainly worth the wait.

woodsie

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

In article <kS27d.1219$UK2.600@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, Matt Bostock
<matt@mattbostock.com> wrote:

>I refuse to believe that
>http://www.aiclub.cn/images/upload/...6/29/053711.jpg is vector....
>look at the blur in the background.

that why i think there's other apps involved.

the worst offender is the lettuce. there's just too many colour shifts and
blur's going on for all that to be vector.

Wizard of Draws

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

On 9/30/04 10:32 PM, in article
none-0110041232180001@c211-28-190-157.mckinn1.vic.optusnet.com.au, "woodsie"
<none@none.com> wrote:

> In article <kS27d.1219$UK2.600@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, Matt Bostock
> <matt@mattbostock.com> wrote:
>
>
> that why i think there's other apps involved.
>
> the worst offender is the lettuce. there's just too many colour shifts and
> blur's going on for all that to be vector.

I'd have to vote for Illustrator and at least one other program.
I don't understand the logic (other than for purely portfolio purposes) in
using Illustrator to accomplish a photographic rendering. It's much more
cost-effective to simply use a camera and Photoshop.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

woodsie

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

In article <BD823EDB.262D5%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com>, Wizard of
Draws <jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com> wrote:

>On 9/30/04 10:32 PM, in article
>none-0110041232180001@c211-28-190-157.mckinn1.vic.optusnet.com.au, "woodsie"
><none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'd have to vote for Illustrator and at least one other program.
>I don't understand the logic (other than for purely portfolio purposes) in
>using Illustrator to accomplish a photographic rendering. It's much more
>cost-effective to simply use a camera and Photoshop.

the only benefit would be creating something u couldn't straight out
photograph or alter in PS.

Orchid

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

MArtin Chiselwitt <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> woodsie wrote:
<snip>[color=darkred]
> Yes, it's very impressive.. 3D generated and enhanced in Photoshop and
> Illustrator...

It isn't 3D generated as nearly as I and the Japanese staff in my
company can work out from what is written on the site. The person I had
translate is very good at translating (Japanese native with high English
proficiency) but not so great at understanding the technical talk of
Illustrator usage. I can understand the technical talk but can't read
all of the Japanese. However, I think, we figured it out.

The information on the site says that this is Illustrator-only work
using the pen, pencil and gradient mesh. The writer specifically said he
couldn't do some of the things he wanted to with just the pen and had to
use the pencil. The site is to promote a book on learning to use the
gradient mesh tools optimally in Illustrator.

One thing we're unclear on though is whether or not the pictures are art
as well or if they are source photos for the meshes. It's possible that
the meshes are the art and the photos just a source. It's also possible
that the "photos" are the meshes with color applied. It's unclear which
is the case from what we could see on the site.
[color=darkred]

This gallery appeared to contain Chinese characters so I couldn't read
it.

Orchid

LauraK

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

>The information on the site says that this is Illustrator-only work
>using the pen, pencil and gradient mesh. The writer specifically said he
>couldn't do some of the things he wanted to with just the pen and had to
>use the pencil. The site is to promote a book on learning to use the
>gradient mesh tools optimally in Illustrator.
>

Will that book be available in English? I'd love to get some idea of his
technique.

>One thing we're unclear on though is whether or not the pictures are art as
well or if they are source photos for the meshes.

The pictures are the gradient meshes. The black and white would be the
underlying structure/containers that the gradient meshes would be create in.
I've fooled around some with gradient meshes. They put Illustrator into a
different world. I wish I understood them a lot better than I do. I'm at the
fingerpainting-in-kindergarten stage compared to what this guy is doing.
Play with it a bit to see what they are. Create a square and fill it with a
gradient. Select and go to object>Create gradient mesh (6X6 is good). Deselect
and then use the white arrow to pull and push the intersections around, curve
some lines, pull the light into the dark, etc.

laurak@madmousergraphics.com
http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

Orchid

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

LauraK <lkrz@aol.comnospam> wrote:

>
> Will that book be available in English? I'd love to get some idea of his
> technique.

I very much doubt it. There are tons of these types of books in Japan
and I've never seen any translated to English. Also, there is a little
English on his site but it's so bad as to be nearly incomprehensible.

However, if the technique is really good, it's my guess someone will
work it out and print their own book in English. It'll probably just
take awhile before the method filters through to other users.

>
> The pictures are the gradient meshes. The black and white would be the
> underlying structure/containers that the gradient meshes would be create in.
> I've fooled around some with gradient meshes. They put Illustrator into a
> different world. I wish I understood them a lot better than I do. I'm at the
> fingerpainting-in-kindergarten stage compared to what this guy is doing.
> Play with it a bit to see what they are. Create a square and fill it with a
> gradient. Select and go to object>Create gradient mesh (6X6 is good). Deselect
> and then use the white arrow to pull and push the intersections around, curve
> some lines, pull the light into the dark, etc.

I've actually done some fairly elaborate work with gradient meshes
myself (did about 2/3 of a picture of the famous sculpture of Nerfertiti
and got tired of fussing with the colors). I found it could do some
pretty impressive stuff but not at the level those pictures are
detailing. That fellow must be truly masterful with them to produce such
work.

Orchid

SpaceGirl

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

Matt Bostock wrote:

> If those really are vector... they are obscenely good. Better even than
> 3D renders.
>
> Matt

Hmm but at one month-per-frame it'd kinda suck for 3D gaming, no?

Amazing images.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

Tomas Holm

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

I think there has to be some tracing made (With streamline or something
similar). There are just so many paths to do on free hand...

/Tomas

> MArtin Chiselwitt <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> It isn't 3D generated as nearly as I and the Japanese staff in my
> company can work out from what is written on the site. The person I had
> translate is very good at translating (Japanese native with high English
> proficiency) but not so great at understanding the technical talk of
> Illustrator usage. I can understand the technical talk but can't read
> all of the Japanese. However, I think, we figured it out.
>
> The information on the site says that this is Illustrator-only work
> using the pen, pencil and gradient mesh. The writer specifically said he
> couldn't do some of the things he wanted to with just the pen and had to
> use the pencil. The site is to promote a book on learning to use the
> gradient mesh tools optimally in Illustrator.
>
> One thing we're unclear on though is whether or not the pictures are art
> as well or if they are source photos for the meshes. It's possible that
> the meshes are the art and the photos just a source. It's also possible
> that the "photos" are the meshes with color applied. It's unclear which
> is the case from what we could see on the site.
>
>
> This gallery appeared to contain Chinese characters so I couldn't read
> it.
>
> Orchid

Orchid

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

> > MArtin Chiselwitt <none@none.invalid> wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Tomas Holm <tomasUSEholm@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think there has to be some tracing made (With streamline or something
> similar). There are just so many paths to do on free hand...

I'm relatively certain there is not. Part of what causes there to be so
many paths is the gradient mesh tool itself. You can make hundreds of
lines in less than a minute using the gradient mesh tool. If you don't
believe that, make a shape and start clicking with the gradient mesh
tool. Keeping clicking for 60 seconds and see how many paths it creates.

Also, there is nothing said on the web site which indicates use of
tracing of any type. Also, I don't think there is currently any software
which can do this sort of thing. Streamline can trace things but the
results are nothing like this and the files created by Streamline would
have too many points (in all the wrong places quite likely) to be of
much use in shaping the mesh.

Orchid

Stuart

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

Matt Bostock wrote:
[color=darkred]
> I refuse to believe that
> http://www.aiclub.cn/images/upload/...6/29/053711.jpg is vector....
> look at the blur in the background.
>
> Matt
>
> woodsie wrote:
>

The wireframe of the objects looks to much like a 3D program, I believe
they all started as from the 3D side and then embellished in Illy and
Photoshop. There is a guy I know who has done the same thing, creating
the initial images in a 3D package and then transferring them to Illy or
PS for final touch-ups and alterations. The other alternative is he has
used the 3D part of CS or another plugin.

Stuart

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

SpaceGirl wrote:
> Matt Bostock wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hmm but at one month-per-frame it'd kinda suck for 3D gaming, no?
>
> Amazing images.
>

Amazing yes, but a kind of redundant excercise to a point... The ratio
of effort involved needed to render the lettuce for example is
ridiculously dis-proportionate, to make what is essentially a mediocre
image. So for all it's technical wonder, i don't think it serves any
prupose. It certainly isn't engaging on an artisitc level. The guy who
made them must be autistic or something... For geeks only...

Alexgirl

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

"Stuart" <stuart@nospam.uk> wrote in message
news:cjjd3n$cov$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk...
> Matt Bostock wrote:
>
result.[color=darkred]
load[color=darkred]
>
> The wireframe of the objects looks to much like a 3D program, I believe
> they all started as from the 3D side and then embellished in Illy and
> Photoshop. There is a guy I know who has done the same thing, creating
> the initial images in a 3D package and then transferring them to Illy or
> PS for final touch-ups and alterations. The other alternative is he has
> used the 3D part of CS or another plugin.
>
> Stuart
>

I didn't wait for everything to download (I'm in the woods and still on
dial-up:< ), but if you try to match up some of the 3D lines with the
gradients, it doesn't work. On the bicycle, look at the handlebars and the
seat. No way is that right. There's more going on here between the line
drawing and the finished picture. On the first site in the black car
picture, look at the grass on the left. I think that the "photos" are the
finished products though; look at the yellow and white car -- I was sure it
was a photo until I looked at the arm of the driver in the car beside it.
I'll send a link to my sis-in-law and see if she can read any of the stuff.
If anything interesting comes of it, I'll let you know what she says.

--
remove my opinion to reply directly to
mrs ihatespam okee at hotmail dot com

Hecate

2004-10-02, 12:14 pm

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:32:18 +1000, none@none.com (woodsie) wrote:

>In article <kS27d.1219$UK2.600@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, Matt Bostock
><matt@mattbostock.com> wrote:
>
>
>that why i think there's other apps involved.
>
>the worst offender is the lettuce. there's just too many colour shifts and
>blur's going on for all that to be vector.

The only thing is, I've seen stuff like that in the Illustrator Wow!
book. In particular the images of a guy named Yuki Miyamoto, but also
stuff by Ann Paidrick, Ma Zhi Ling and Bert Monroy.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

Kurt

2004-10-02, 7:14 pm

In article <BD823EDB.262D5%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com>,
Wizard of Draws <jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com> wrote:

>
> I'd have to vote for Illustrator and at least one other program.
> I don't understand the logic (other than for purely portfolio purposes) in
> using Illustrator to accomplish a photographic rendering. It's much more
> cost-effective to simply use a camera and Photoshop.

That was certainly my hit. Who in the real world would have a budget (or
very relaxed deadline) to adequately compensate the artist for the time
involved to create the art?
AND you still need source art to use for reference.

--
To reply by email, replace the word "space" with "renault"

steggy

2004-10-02, 11:14 pm

Kurt wrote:
>
> In article <BD823EDB.262D5%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com>,
> Wizard of Draws <jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com> wrote:
>
>
> That was certainly my hit. Who in the real world would have a budget (or
> very relaxed deadline) to adequately compensate the artist for the time
> involved to create the art?
> AND you still need source art to use for reference.
>
> --
> To reply by email, replace the word "space" with "renault"

Who in the world would buy a Van Gogh for 30 million dollars? Where the
hell did Vincent get his time and money from?

My guess is this guy or woman has a fabulous job and has fun doing this
on the side. I had fun admiring the results.
--
steg

Wizard of Draws

2004-10-03, 4:14 am

On 10/2/04 8:31 PM, in article 415F4865.2E13C6E0@hotmail.com, "steggy"
<steggy2001@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Kurt wrote:
>
>
> Who in the world would buy a Van Gogh for 30 million dollars? Where the
> hell did Vincent get his time and money from?
>
> My guess is this guy or woman has a fabulous job and has fun doing this
> on the side. I had fun admiring the results.

Vincent never sold a painting in his lifetime.
He was supported by his brother much of the time.

I agree that the results are impressive and worth the wait. But I would
think a retouched photo illustration would be less time consuming and
therefore cheaper for the client.
What I would like to see is the reference material alongside the finished
product.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Kurt

2004-10-03, 4:14 am

In article <415F4865.2E13C6E0@hotmail.com>,
steggy <steggy2001@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Kurt wrote:
>
>
> Who in the world would buy a Van Gogh for 30 million dollars? Where the
> hell did Vincent get his time and money from?

Not and ad agency with a client budget. If we're talking fine art and
the market dictates accordingly, more power to the artist.
BTW- This guy is a great technician, but cannot be compared with Van
Gogh.

--
To reply by email, replace the word "space" with "renault"

The Doormouse

2004-10-03, 4:14 am

Kurt <labolide@spacecaravelle.com> wrote:

> BTW- This guy is a great technician, but cannot be compared with Van
> Gogh.

Technicians are people too!!

:)

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

The Doormouse

2004-10-03, 4:14 am

Wizard of Draws <jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws.com> wrote:

> http://www.wizardofdraws.com

Wow. You've been busy! :)
Check out that website posted today ... www.imagine-that.ws

Hmmm, I am so flaky today.

The Doormouse

--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-03, 12:14 pm

>
>
> Not and ad agency with a client budget. If we're talking fine art and
> the market dictates accordingly, more power to the artist.
> BTW- This guy is a great technician, but cannot be compared with Van
> Gogh.
>

No, he cannot. He is operating in territory similar to the airbrush
artists who had their halcyon days in the 70's. Very mechanical imagery
that lacks expression or texture since, by it's nature, it's divorced
from the hand as opposed to using pencil or a brush. Ultimately it is
all about a smooth surface behind a computer screen, there is no
'feeling' in this stuff at all. So it's function is decorative and
unengaging, like a mechanical reproduction of the 'Green Lady' hanging
in your parents front-room. The other problem i have with this is the
image is poorer than the reality it is trying to emulate... So, I do not
understand why someone would waste huge amounts of their time trying to
reproduce a realistic cat head or a lettuce in such a manner. These are
images you see all around you in the supermarket etc every single day...
I don't believe this guy is making any artistic statement at all. Like
i said, maybe he has a touch of autism, aspergers perhaps :)

By the way, a small point in response to an earlier reply to this
thread, Van Gogh did in fact sell one painting in his own lifetime, it
was called "Red Vineyard at Arles"

Saint Firk

2004-10-03, 12:14 pm

Way down deep in the middle of the congo, woodsie and a hippo took an apricot a
guava and a mango. Stuck it with the others and he danced a dainty tango...

> well i've seen some vector work in my time but this BLOWS THE MIND.
>
> however, since i can't read any of the details (does anyone read asian
> languages here???) i have my doubts on what was actually done and used
> (eg. photoshoping, 3d,..... streamline anyone) to achieve the end result.
>
> i'll let you guys be the judge on this one....
>
> http://www.photoshopcn.com/bbs/view...=150569&fpage=1
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/real_trace/
>
> ps. the first link contains alot of pics so it might take a while to load
> but it's certainly worth the wait.

Pretty impressive.

--
Stereo: Radiohead - I Might Be Wrong (Remix)
"I must create a system, or be enslav'd by another man's. I will not reason &
compare: my business is to create"

Saint Firk

2004-10-03, 12:14 pm

Way down deep in the middle of the congo, woodsie and a hippo took an apricot a
guava and a mango. Stuck it with the others and he danced a dainty tango...

> that why i think there's other apps involved.
>
> the worst offender is the lettuce. there's just too many colour shifts and
> blur's going on for all that to be vector.

not sure myself, could be gradient mesh.

--
Stereo: A Silver Mt. Zion - 13 Angels Standing Guard 'round The Side Of Your
Bed
"I must create a system, or be enslav'd by another man's. I will not reason &
compare: my business is to create"

Matt Bostock

2004-10-03, 7:14 pm

woodsie

2004-10-03, 7:14 pm

Orchid

2004-10-03, 7:14 pm

SpaceGirl

2004-10-03, 7:14 pm

Alexgirl

2004-10-04, 7:14 am

Kurt

2004-10-04, 11:14 pm

Orchid

2004-10-05, 4:14 am

MArtin Chiselwitt <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> SpaceGirl wrote:
>
>
> Amazing yes, but a kind of redundant excercise to a point... The ratio
> of effort involved needed to render the lettuce for example is
> ridiculously dis-proportionate, to make what is essentially a mediocre
> image. So for all it's technical wonder, i don't think it serves any
> prupose. It certainly isn't engaging on an artisitc level. The guy who
> made them must be autistic or something... For geeks only...

I had a similar thought but I think that the technique can be applied to
more creative endeavors than the pictures that are illustrated on those
pages. That is, bring that level of realist detail to a picture of
something which is imaginary.

Orchid

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-05, 7:14 pm

> I had a similar thought but I think that the technique can be applied to
> more creative endeavors than the pictures that are illustrated on those
> pages. That is, bring that level of realist detail to a picture of
> something which is imaginary.
>
> Orchid

As I have said already, I do not seek to undermine the technical prowess
of the guyat all.
As you are sort of saying, it is nothing WITHOUT imagination which would
transform it into art

Tom Nelson

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

In article <20041001010726.03961.00004383@mb-m19.aol.com>, LauraK
<lkrz@aol.comnospam> wrote:

> Will that book be available in English? I'd love to get some idea of his
> technique.

Take a look at Bert Monroy's stuff:
http://www.bertmonroy.com/fineart/text/fineart1.htm
The book's at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...roycom-20/002-4
835098-9060044
He uses Photoshop as well as Illustrator, but the results are
photo-real.
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography

Tom Nelson

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

In article <acT7d.74$19.7@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>, MArtin Chiselwitt
<none@none.invalid> wrote:

> He is operating in territory similar to the airbrush
> artists who had their halcyon days in the 70's. Very mechanical imagery
> that lacks expression or texture since, by it's nature, it's divorced
> from the hand as opposed to using pencil or a brush. Ultimately it is
> all about a smooth surface behind a computer screen, there is no
> 'feeling' in this stuff at all.

So are Toulouse-Lautrec's lithographs or the serigraphs of Chagall or
Roy Lichtenstein "mechanical" as well, since they apply flat color by a
means "divorced from the hand"? Does their choice of medium prevent
them from expressing feeling? Are the photo-real paintings of Chuck
Close or Don Eddy artistically more meaningful, despite their banal
subject matter, because they applied paint with a brush instead of a
graphics tablet?

> The other problem i have with this is the
> image is poorer than the reality it is trying to emulate...

A painting would also be a poorer reproduction. Is that your criterion
for artistic merit?

> So, I do not
> understand why someone would waste huge amounts of their time trying to
> reproduce a realistic cat head or a lettuce in such a manner. These are
> images you see all around you in the supermarket etc every single day...

Fine art has a long tradition of presenting the everyday world and
forcing you to see it anew. A vector drawing such as we're discussing
could be reproduced at enormous size, maintaining all that yummy
realism. Try THAT with a photo!

My mother once showed me an art history book she'd bought in the '20s.
It purported to describe the world's most important art of all time.
About a third of it concerned the art of Greek and Roman antiquity. Van
Gogh was not mentioned at all. Renoir got a couple of sentences; the
other impressionists were compressed into a chapter a few pages long.
African art was absent; Chinese art was imperial ceramics.

The lesson I took from it is that "great art" is a cultural construct
which changes over time. We cannot know how the future will view our
work; it's best just to follow your bliss wherever it leads.

Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography
========================================
my ISP does not have an "x" in its name
========================================

MArtin Chiselwitt

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

Tom Nelson wrote:
> In article <acT7d.74$19.7@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>, MArtin Chiselwitt
> <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> So are Toulouse-Lautrec's lithographs or the serigraphs of Chagall or
> Roy Lichtenstein "mechanical" as well, since they apply flat color by a
> means "divorced from the hand"? Does their choice of medium prevent
> them from expressing feeling? Are the photo-real paintings of Chuck
> Close or Don Eddy artistically more meaningful, despite their banal
> subject matter, because they applied paint with a brush instead of a
> graphics tablet?
>
>
>
>
> A painting would also be a poorer reproduction. Is that your criterion
> for artistic merit?
>
>
>
>
> Fine art has a long tradition of presenting the everyday world and
> forcing you to see it anew. A vector drawing such as we're discussing
> could be reproduced at enormous size, maintaining all that yummy
> realism. Try THAT with a photo!
>
> My mother once showed me an art history book she'd bought in the '20s.
> It purported to describe the world's most important art of all time.
> About a third of it concerned the art of Greek and Roman antiquity. Van
> Gogh was not mentioned at all. Renoir got a couple of sentences; the
> other impressionists were compressed into a chapter a few pages long.
> African art was absent; Chinese art was imperial ceramics.
>
> The lesson I took from it is that "great art" is a cultural construct
> which changes over time. We cannot know how the future will view our
> work; it's best just to follow your bliss wherever it leads.
>
> Tom Nelson
> Tom Nelson Photography
> ========================================
> my ISP does not have an "x" in its name
> ========================================
As i have said elsewhere, it isn't the mechanical nature of the
technique itself that concerns me, it is the fact that it is applied
without imagination. In terms of artistic merit, it probably equates
with a 70s Athena poster...
Comparing this with the work of chagall is totally laughable. Chagall's
content stands above and apart from the technique employed to illustrate
it.
This stuff is typically post-modern in that it only addresses the
technology used to create it, i.e. "Whoo-hoo, look what I can do in
Illustrator"... So what? I have better snaps of cars and common-garden
vegetables that i can take with my own cheap camera. If this guy is
conveying anything it is how poor simulation still remains in digital
art.. for the most part. [*imho*].
Even Warhol's stuff had a trace of humour...