Computer Graphics with Photoshop - Effective use of Lasso

Author

Effective use of Lasso

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-12, 7:14 pm

Hi,
I have always used the pen tool to mark areas so I thought I would try
the lasso tool using my Wacom stylus. The problem I am having is that
when I pick up the stylus to rest my hand or because I got out of
bounds or whatever then when I start again from the new point doesn't
really seem to pick up in the same place even though I have the 'add
to selection' selected. Then when I finish marking an area it is
filled with intermediate areas of demarcation inside the area I am
trying to select. I have tried drawing theses areas together but the
marquee refuses to cooperate. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can
do this correctly? I can see how if I can get this to work it would be
faster then the pen tool and, even though it is sloppy, acceptable for
some things.

Thanks,
Ron

tacit

2007-03-13, 4:14 am

In article <1173737508.852550.99910@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>,
"ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX" <ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote:

> I have always used the pen tool to mark areas so I thought I would try
> the lasso tool using my Wacom stylus. The problem I am having is that
> when I pick up the stylus to rest my hand or because I got out of
> bounds or whatever then when I start again from the new point doesn't
> really seem to pick up in the same place even though I have the 'add
> to selection' selected. Then when I finish marking an area it is
> filled with intermediate areas of demarcation inside the area I am
> trying to select. I have tried drawing theses areas together but the
> marquee refuses to cooperate. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can
> do this correctly?

Is it possible you have a feather on the lasso? If you have set a
feather on the tool, then it will not seem to line up when you stop and
then add to the selection.

By the way, you can lift your hand or let go of the button without
closing the lasso. Hold down the OPTION (PC: ALT) key on the keyboard.

--
Photography, kink, polyamory, shareware, and more: all at
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-13, 7:14 pm

On Mar 12, 10:15 pm, tacit <tac...@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <1173737508.852550.99...@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>,
>
> "ronvi...@XXXXXXXXXX" <ronvi...@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote:
>
> Is it possible you have a feather on the lasso? If you have set a
> feather on the tool, then it will not seem to line up when you stop and
> then add to the selection.
>
> By the way, you can lift your hand or let go of the button without
> closing the lasso. Hold down the OPTION (PC: ALT) key on the keyboard.
>
> --
> Photography, kink, polyamory, shareware, and more: all athttp://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Hi,
After trying the lasso tool with the stylus I decided to try the
freehand pen tool too. For whatever reason I had pretty much
overlooked the usefulness of those tools. In my opinion the stylus
makes them more practical. I see the Alt key also applies to the
freehand pen tool - thanks. For now it looks like the freehand pen
tool is better for the way I like to work. That may change in the
future but I like to name paths and keep them for later.
Are there clear-cut circumstances where you prefer the lasso tool to
the freehand pen tool? I bet you're extremely fast and go to the lasso
tool first. I also bet you have the confidence to make destructive
edits, which is something I cannot bring myself to do.

TIA,
Ron

Peter Wollenberg

2007-03-13, 7:14 pm

>
>...

>Are there clear-cut circumstances where you prefer the lasso tool to
>the freehand pen tool? I bet you're extremely fast and go to the lasso
>tool first. I also bet you have the confidence to make destructive
>edits, which is something I cannot bring myself to do.
>
Hi Ron,
I use the lasso as follows:
First I make a rather rough selection with the tool, then I enter
quick mask mode. Now I improve the selection by either blurring the
mask or by editing with the brush at reduced opacity or with low
pressure on the stylus, quickly switching the brush mode with the X
key, which toggles foreground and background colors and thereby the
brush mode between add to mask / subtract from mask. When I am done, I
convert the quickmask to a layer mask. This is nondestructive and IMHO
rather versatile.

Peter

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-13, 11:15 pm

On Mar 13, 1:03 pm, jenelisepasc...@web.de (Peter Wollenberg) wrote:
>
> Hi Ron,
> I use the lasso as follows:
> First I make a rather rough selection with the tool, then I enter
> quick mask mode. Now I improve the selection by either blurring the
> mask or by editing with the brush at reduced opacity or with low
> pressure on the stylus, quickly switching the brush mode with the X
> key, which toggles foreground and background colors and thereby the
> brush mode between add to mask / subtract from mask. When I am done, I
> convert the quickmask to a layer mask. This is nondestructive and IMHO
> rather versatile.
>
> Peter

Hi Peter,
Lasso in conjunction with quickmask and brush/brush opacity to create
masks, yet another technique it would have taken me years to discover
on my own.

Thanks,
Ron

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-15, 7:14 am

On Mar 13, 1:03 pm, jenelisepasc...@web.de (Peter Wollenberg) wrote:

> First I make a rather rough selection with the tool, then I enter
> quick mask mode. Now I improve the selection by either blurring the
> mask or by editing with the brush at reduced opacity or with low
> pressure on the stylus, quickly switching the brush mode with the X
> key, which toggles foreground and background colors and thereby the
> brush mode between add to mask / subtract from mask. When I am done, I
> convert the quickmask to a layer mask. This is nondestructive and IMHO
> rather versatile.
>
> Peter

This new technique for the first time brings the magic wand tool into
play - I knew it must be good for something.
I also find the lasso tool good for lassoing parts of a layers mask or
channel for selective blurring - like on the shadow side of a mask.

Thanks again

KatWoman

2007-03-16, 7:14 pm

<ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:1173939489.251765.98470@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 13, 1:03 pm, jenelisepasc...@web.de (Peter Wollenberg) wrote:
>
>
> This new technique for the first time brings the magic wand tool into
> play - I knew it must be good for something.
> I also find the lasso tool good for lassoing parts of a layers mask or
> channel for selective blurring - like on the shadow side of a mask.
>
> Thanks again

don't forget the magnetic lasso, it hugs the edges of the subject even if
your pen slides a bit off
great to start off with
I use a combination of all the selection tools to get it right
the wand (on contiguous) at low tolerance is great for cleaning up little
areas that didn't get in
don't forget the expand and contract and grow features of select

russell brown has a good tutorial using channels for the wispy hairs..

Harry Limey

2007-03-16, 7:14 pm

<ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:1173737508.852550.99910@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
> I have always used the pen tool to mark areas so I thought I would try
> the lasso tool using my Wacom stylus. The problem I am having is that
> when I pick up the stylus to rest my hand or because I got out of
> bounds or whatever then when I start again from the new point doesn't
> really seem to pick up in the same place even though I have the 'add
> to selection' selected. Then when I finish marking an area it is
> filled with intermediate areas of demarcation inside the area I am
> trying to select. I have tried drawing theses areas together but the
> marquee refuses to cooperate. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can
> do this correctly? I can see how if I can get this to work it would be
> faster then the pen tool and, even though it is sloppy, acceptable for
> some things.
>
> Thanks,
> Ron
>
As Peter says a combination which uses the quick mask will probably be the
best selection method!
You might want to reverse PS's default setting so that the selected area is
highlighted!! double click the Quick mask icon (near bottom of toolbar) and
change colour indication to selected area!!
One other thing you might find useful!! you can also paint in with grey for
a semi transparent selection!

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-16, 11:14 pm

On Mar 16, 3:16 pm, "KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatana...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> don't forget the magnetic lasso, it hugs the edges of the subject even if
> your pen slides a bit off
> great to start off with
> I use a combination of all the selection tools to get it right
> the wand (on contiguous) at low tolerance is great for cleaning up little
> areas that didn't get in
> don't forget the expand and contract and grow features of select
>
> russell brown has a good tutorial using channels for the wispy hairs..

I bet you have done a lot of great work. Do you have an online gallery
of before and afters?

Thanks,
Ron

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-16, 11:14 pm

On Mar 16, 3:42 pm, "Harry Limey" <harryli...@inbox.com> wrote:

> As Peter says a combination which uses the quick mask will probably be the
> best selection method!
> You might want to reverse PS's default setting so that the selected area is
> highlighted!! double click the Quick mask icon (near bottom of toolbar) and
> change colour indication to selected area!!
> One other thing you might find useful!! you can also paint in with grey for
> a semi transparent selection!

Good tips. I thought I had double clicked on everything but somehow I
did not notice the Quick mask icon.

Thanks,
Ron

KatWoman

2007-03-17, 7:14 pm

<ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:1174089947.018334.131880@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 16, 3:16 pm, "KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatana...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I bet you have done a lot of great work. Do you have an online gallery
> of before and afters?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron

I do not have one but I put couple of pictures here on Flickr today
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kw-retouch/
it is not such a good format to compare side by side
and the pictures are too small to see too much details
there is a way to see a larger one if you have the time
I had a few gif with b4-after but it won't save the animated ones

Harry Limey

2007-03-17, 11:14 pm

"KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatanaXXX@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SXZKh.8150$B7.6602@bigfe9...
>
> <ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
> news:1174089947.018334.131880@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I do not have one but I put couple of pictures here on Flickr today
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kw-retouch/
> it is not such a good format to compare side by side
> and the pictures are too small to see too much details
> there is a way to see a larger one if you have the time
> I had a few gif with b4-after but it won't save the animated ones
>

I noticed a before and after Gif on Flickr the other day! Steve would be
pleased to explain how he does it!!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/photos...57594588741831/

ronviers@gmail.com

2007-03-18, 4:14 am

On Mar 17, 5:28 pm, "KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatana...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I do not have one but I put couple of pictures here on Flickr todayhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/kw-retouch/
> it is not such a good format to compare side by side
> and the pictures are too small to see too much details
> there is a way to see a larger one if you have the time
> I had a few gif with b4-after but it won't save the animated ones

First you're lucky because the photographer provided you with a nicely
lighted properly exposed subject of a model that is not just lovely
but able to apply makeup.
Your modifications resulted in a dramatically improved photo. I have
no idea how long it took because I don't know your methods and style
but do know that it would take me a very long time to achieve the same
results - if I even could.
The most effective edits were to remove the specular highlight from
the forehead, nose and lips. Then I like how you reduced the amount of
reflection along the lower side of the face - subtle but effective. I
would comment on how many years you removed from her face but I'm not
stupid. Suffice it to say that she looks younger.
The tightened crop changes the photo entirely. It directs the gaze
from at-the-lens to past-the-lens which changes the subject from that
of an interested woman to one of a dreamy woman. I wish you could have
kept the top of the ear but I see this kind of crop all the time so it
does not surprise me that you decided to clip it.
Next time I would like to be able to see the eyes as clearly reflected
from the surface as the lips are, maybe with an actual mirror and
changing it with rippling water using a displacement map in post. If
the pose was changed so the photo could keep the model's cleavage
while maintaining her hand position you could place diamonds or
merchandise in the frame and have a great promotion - not that you
cannot as it is but we all know how cleavage sells.
Thanks for sharing some of your excellent work,
Ron

Harry Limey

2007-03-18, 7:14 am

"KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatanaXXX@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SXZKh.8150$B7.6602@bigfe9...

> I do not have one but I put couple of pictures here on Flickr today
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kw-retouch/
> it is not such a good format to compare side by side
> and the pictures are too small to see too much details
> there is a way to see a larger one if you have the time
> I had a few gif with b4-after but it won't save the animated ones
>

Forgot to mention! That is indeed very professional looking work!!
I like both examples but Kevin shows real innovation!!
Good work!

KatWoman

2007-03-18, 7:14 pm

<ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:1174201183.633929.169930@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 17, 5:28 pm, "KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatana...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kw-retouch/[color=darkred]
>
> First you're lucky because the photographer provided you with a nicely
> lighted properly exposed subject of a model that is not just lovely
> but able to apply makeup.
> Your modifications resulted in a dramatically improved photo. I have
> no idea how long it took because I don't know your methods and style
> but do know that it would take me a very long time to achieve the same
> results - if I even could.
> The most effective edits were to remove the specular highlight from
> the forehead, nose and lips. Then I like how you reduced the amount of
> reflection along the lower side of the face - subtle but effective. I
> would comment on how many years you removed from her face but I'm not
> stupid. Suffice it to say that she looks younger.
> The tightened crop changes the photo entirely. It directs the gaze
> from at-the-lens to past-the-lens which changes the subject from that
> of an interested woman to one of a dreamy woman. I wish you could have
> kept the top of the ear but I see this kind of crop all the time so it
> does not surprise me that you decided to clip it.
> Next time I would like to be able to see the eyes as clearly reflected
> from the surface as the lips are, maybe with an actual mirror and
> changing it with rippling water using a displacement map in post. If
> the pose was changed so the photo could keep the model's cleavage
> while maintaining her hand position you could place diamonds or
> merchandise in the frame and have a great promotion - not that you
> cannot as it is but we all know how cleavage sells.
> Thanks for sharing some of your excellent work,
> Ron

Ron PS I am married to the photographer
and indeed he is talented and knows his light
also I do all the makeup
so I have advantage of knowing the face
often the cropping is choice of hubby or are dictated by final print
dimensions
most images do not take me over 2 hours
I have included the ones that needed the most work
some of my stuff is very subtle and not so good for showing differences

there are other frames of that shot with the hand in different position
I do have another version of it
with rippling watery effect to the Mylar but I did some cheesy filter effect
to the border and I didn't like it

I rarely get to do the finished layout with product added or whatever copy
will go onto it
I will look again at the eye highlights to see what you meant..

Thanks Harry, the kid is a very good musician, the photos are for his debut
CD and PR
I was trying to achieve a cuter, younger, trendy image for him for his
myspace and promos

I got the idea of the caricature from this NG!!!!
someone asked about it awhile ago and I made the nikki one (the girl in
overknee socks)
so I tried it on Kevin, his shoes are my favorite.

He really loved them too

the floral/abstract photos are my photography

John McWilliams

2007-03-20, 7:14 pm

ronviers@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
> On Mar 16, 3:42 pm, "Harry Limey" <harryli...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>
> Good tips. I thought I had double clicked on everything but somehow I
> did not notice the Quick mask icon.

PS CS 3 has selection tools that'll knock your socks off. The quick
selection tool and refine edge together make many selections almost
automatic. The former tools are still necessary in some situations.

--
John McWilliams