Computer Graphics with Photoshop

Author

CRT or Flat panel

Harry Limey

2007-03-05, 6:14 pm

I have seen a number of discussions on this subject on the newsgroups!! but
I would particularly like to address one issue and one issue only!!!!

Someone mentioned that Flatpanels were better for your eyes, as they do not
flicker!
I seem to develop a headache from my CRT monitor much more quickly than I
used to and so I would really like to know if anyone has knowledge of which
is in fact better for the eyes?

Rob

2007-03-05, 6:14 pm

tacit

2007-03-05, 6:14 pm

In article <45ec6547$0$8720$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
"Harry Limey" <harrylimey@inbox.com> wrote:

> I seem to develop a headache from my CRT monitor much more quickly than I
> used to and so I would really like to know if anyone has knowledge of which
> is in fact better for the eyes?

An LCD panel does not have "refresh" in the way that CRTs do; LCD panels
do not flicker.

However, if your CRT gives you a headache, you probably have the refresh
rate set way too low. You can set a higher refresh rate to solve that
problem.

--
Photography, kink, polyamory, shareware, and more: all at
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Rudy Benner

2007-03-05, 6:14 pm

"tacit" <tacitr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:tacitr-8C5F15.15475305032007@netnews.comcast.net...
> In article <45ec6547$0$8720$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> "Harry Limey" <harrylimey@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>
> An LCD panel does not have "refresh" in the way that CRTs do; LCD panels
> do not flicker.
>
> However, if your CRT gives you a headache, you probably have the refresh
> rate set way too low. You can set a higher refresh rate to solve that
> problem.
>
> --
> Photography, kink, polyamory, shareware, and more: all at
> http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Thanks, just set mine from 60 to 85, had the same problem.

Daniel Masse

2007-03-07, 3:14 am

"Harry Limey" <harrylimey@inbox.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
45ec6547$0$8720$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>I have seen a number of discussions on this subject on the newsgroups!! but
>I would particularly like to address one issue and one issue only!!!!
>
> Someone mentioned that Flatpanels were better for your eyes, as they do
> not flicker!
> I seem to develop a headache from my CRT monitor much more quickly than I
> used to and so I would really like to know if anyone has knowledge of
> which is in fact better for the eyes?

This is the main reason that led me to buy an LCD : my eyes were itching
badly after one or two hours in front of the screen. As soon as I installed
the LCD, the problem was solved.
I was told that some government offices used to have a rule allowing the
typists a few minutes rest after so many hours in front of the screen, and
that that had been rescinded where LCD are used.

Doc

2007-03-08, 6:14 pm

So can i safely say no one has a strong opinion one way or the other?

I've been looking at monitors and trying to decide which to buy. the
places i've been only have LCD's. but because of eye strain and
headaches i would like to know which one would be easer on the eyes. :-/

Rob wrote:
> Harry Limey wrote:
>
>
>
> Think you will find that higher refresh rates are better on CRT screens
> I run 85 Hertz.
>
> I think both give headaches.

Rob

2007-03-08, 6:14 pm

Doc wrote:

> So can i safely say no one has a strong opinion one way or the other?
>
> I've been looking at monitors and trying to decide which to buy. the
> places i've been only have LCD's. but because of eye strain and
> headaches i would like to know which one would be easer on the eyes. :-/
>
>

I do have both, CRT which has a 21" Trinitron tube and a Dell ultra
Sharp FP1905 19" (made by Samsung).

As I said I use the CRT at the highest refresh rate. I can use the LCD
which is set up on another computer mainly for others to use. Both are
quite acceptable for accurate representation of colour etc.

LCD screens have come of age where they now don't graduate with the
angle of view - this I found a major problem with earlier LCD's.

The CRT have to be run at the highest refresh to avoid eye strain.

LCD PC monitors seem OK when correctly calibrated. I also have a big LCD
TV and that needed the brightness turned down to keep watching for an
extended time.

Its the concentration to what your working on, that causes the stress
with either CRT or LCD.

The writing is on the wall for CRT and my replacement for the CRT will
have to be a good LCD - that brand will have a screen made by Samsung.

[color=darkred]
> Rob wrote:
>

Doc

2007-03-08, 10:14 pm

Thx Rob for taking the time to comment.... so if yopu we're going to buy
a new monitor tomorow you would get a good LCD - made by Samsung... right?

Can you get a a good Samsung LCD for under $400?

Rob wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Doc wrote:
>
>
>
> I do have both, CRT which has a 21" Trinitron tube and a Dell ultra
> Sharp FP1905 19" (made by Samsung).
>
> As I said I use the CRT at the highest refresh rate. I can use the LCD
> which is set up on another computer mainly for others to use. Both are
> quite acceptable for accurate representation of colour etc.
>
> LCD screens have come of age where they now don't graduate with the
> angle of view - this I found a major problem with earlier LCD's.
>
> The CRT have to be run at the highest refresh to avoid eye strain.
>
> LCD PC monitors seem OK when correctly calibrated. I also have a big LCD
> TV and that needed the brightness turned down to keep watching for an
> extended time.
>
> Its the concentration to what your working on, that causes the stress
> with either CRT or LCD.
>
> The writing is on the wall for CRT and my replacement for the CRT will
> have to be a good LCD - that brand will have a screen made by Samsung.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Rob

2007-03-08, 10:14 pm

Doc wrote:
> Thx Rob for taking the time to comment.... so if yopu we're going to buy
> a new monitor tomorow you would get a good LCD - made by Samsung... right?
>
> Can you get a a good Samsung LCD for under $400?

Yep - Here a Samsung 19" is now under $300AUS my Dell Ultra Sharp 19"
was about $500 AUS its 15mth old.

rm
[color=darkred]
>
> Rob wrote:
>

Doc

2007-03-09, 3:16 am

Thx for the advise.

Rob wrote:
> Doc wrote:
>
>
>
> Yep - Here a Samsung 19" is now under $300AUS my Dell Ultra Sharp 19"
> was about $500 AUS its 15mth old.
>
> rm

hoffmann@fho-emden.de

2007-03-09, 6:14 pm

Harry Limey wrote:
> I have seen a number of discussions on this subject on the newsgroups!! but
> I would particularly like to address one issue and one issue only!!!!
>
> Someone mentioned that Flatpanels were better for your eyes, as they do not
> flicker!
> I seem to develop a headache from my CRT monitor much more quickly than I
> used to and so I would really like to know if anyone has knowledge of which
> is in fact better for the eyes?

A white area on a CRT, let's say 100cd/m2, 1024x768, 70 Hz,
is in fact created by a horizontal bar which consumes 1/50 of
the height. This bar moves from top to bottom 70 times per
second.
The luminance of the bar is 50 times larger than the average
screen luminance: 5000 cd/m2. This is a rather strong invisible
flicker.
IMO, the neuronal system is not well prepared for the exposure
to such an artificial stimulus.
An additional problem: the maximal detectable frequency is in
the region of 40Hz or half the flicker frequency of the monitor.
This may cause internal aliasing effects.
Scientific publications are rare.
A discussion about :
http://tinyurl.com/3863qa

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Doc

2007-03-09, 6:14 pm

Could you translate that into english. :-)

So which are you saying is easer on the eyes?

> A white area on a CRT, let's say 100cd/m2, 1024x768, 70 Hz,
> is in fact created by a horizontal bar which consumes 1/50 of
> the height. This bar moves from top to bottom 70 times per
> second.
> The luminance of the bar is 50 times larger than the average
> screen luminance: 5000 cd/m2. This is a rather strong invisible
> flicker.
> IMO, the neuronal system is not well prepared for the exposure
> to such an artificial stimulus.
> An additional problem: the maximal detectable frequency is in
> the region of 40Hz or half the flicker frequency of the monitor.
> This may cause internal aliasing effects.
> Scientific publications are rare.
> A discussion about :
> http://tinyurl.com/3863qa
>
> Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
>

KatWoman

2007-03-09, 6:14 pm

"Doc" <nothome@thistime.com> wrote in message
news:b5hIh.4$mV1.2@newsfe03.lga...[color=darkred]
> Could you translate that into english. :-)
>
> So which are you saying is easer on the eyes?
>
>

recently replaced (cheap KDS FLAT) 19 inch CRT, that fried itself into
blurriness, I had always used it on highest refresh rate (85).
Replaced with 19" LCD Samsung 971P (not the cheapest but had contrast ratio
I wanted)
I was thinking I had to get another CRT but went shopping and saw the
improvements to LCD and changed my mind

never got headaches from either (get shoulder/neck/back tension from mousing
often)

BUT I do not notice as much eye strain with LCD (for me this is experienced
as dry itchiness in eyes,not headache)

My first LCD has very decent viewing angle range (important to me to show my
work over shoulder to others)
Has good contrast ratio (1500 to 1) (usually only in higher priced models)
decent speed 6ms redraw rate (I do FPS games)
matches my printer with not much changes to settings on same OS and install
as the CRT
looks nicer
takes less space
it rotates!!! (love that)
lacks manual controls (do not need them) and the software is not perfect but
decent
it has USB ports on the side, so you can put peripherals on the other side
of your desk if you like

(Magic Rotate refuses to shut down when I want to, end program comes up.
It may be in conflict to ATI vid drivers as they have some shared functions
like rotate that clash.
But if you don't use the SAMSUNG prog, when you rotate with the vid driver
the mouse does not orient to the new direction and you can't use it
properly.)

Good advice for any comp users:
rest eyes at least once an hour, look to infinity and stretch your vision to
look into the distance, close them and rest them!!!!! use eye drops for
moisture if they get dry.
MOST IMPORTANT please work in a dimly lit room!!!! cannot overstate how
much this affects your eyes, make sure no reflections are on your screen
from backlight!!!!!
stretch arms shoulder neck FREQUENTLY
use leg rests too if your legs are dangling or pressing on your chair edges.

get massages and go to chiropractor if you can....

The really good monitors are so expensive, I have never been able to own an
EIZO or similar high end
there are some companies that still make hi quality CRT but I needed to
replace fast and had to buy local.
After searching my options CRT were not to be found in good selections or
qualities in stock at local retailers. I had a Samsung before my KDS and it
lasted forever so I trusted the brand, and saw good reviews.

To translate above
take a photo or vid of your TV set or CRT
you will see a horizontal band moving up the frame
normally invisible to your eye because it is so quick
but a camera can capture this "swipe"
you brain however is affected by it's frequency, and it does cause eye
strain

Harry Limey

2007-03-10, 3:14 am

"KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatanaXXX@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_WjIh.11250$Wc.872@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"Lots and lots of very useful information!!"

Thanks Princess, very helpful and very useful! right down to the brand!
and thanks to everyone else for their imput!

I have turned up the refresh rate on my CRT and have cut back (drastically)
the time spent on-line!! and now have no problems. touch wood!! But I will
be giving a flatpanel a try next time!!

KatWoman

2007-03-11, 7:15 pm

"Harry Limey" <harrylimey@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:45f260d2$0$8715$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "KatWoman" <XXXJoliePrincessKatanaXXX@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_WjIh.11250$Wc.872@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Lots and lots of very useful information!!"
>
> Thanks Princess, very helpful and very useful! right down to the brand!
> and thanks to everyone else for their imput!
>
> I have turned up the refresh rate on my CRT and have cut back
> (drastically) the time spent on-line!! and now have no problems. touch
> wood!! But I will be giving a flatpanel a try next time!!

forgot to add
when is the last time you had an eye exam???
if you wear glasses make sure the person fitting you is aware of your vision
distance from eye to monitor.

I got eyeglasses for distance, for close up I don't really need them. But
they did not measure my vision at the computer distance. Reading distance
also differs in angle of view,. and neither is suitable for computer. I had
to get ones just for that.

Make sure you are not having to tilt your neck upwards to see the screen
also, or move your head up and down for your glasses to focus. Small frames
or bi focals will block a portion of the screen and you will find yourself
moving your head to focus.

I drink lot of carrot juice@!! vitamin A is good for your eyes! something to
do with making new rods and cones?
eat your vegetables, I find those who don't have more light sensitivity
and in general light blue or green eyed people seem more easily affected by
brightness
also certain headaches like migraine make too much light painful (and
diseases like measles)

Doc

2007-03-11, 11:14 pm

Thanks KatWoman, I appreciat that info very much.

KatWoman wrote:

> recently replaced (cheap KDS FLAT) 19 inch CRT, that fried itself into
> blurriness, I had always used it on highest refresh rate (85).
> Replaced with 19" LCD Samsung 971P (not the cheapest but had contrast ratio
> I wanted)
> I was thinking I had to get another CRT but went shopping and saw the
> improvements to LCD and changed my mind
>
> never got headaches from either (get shoulder/neck/back tension from mousing
> often)
>
> BUT I do not notice as much eye strain with LCD (for me this is experienced
> as dry itchiness in eyes,not headache)
>
> My first LCD has very decent viewing angle range (important to me to show my
> work over shoulder to others)
> Has good contrast ratio (1500 to 1) (usually only in higher priced models)
> decent speed 6ms redraw rate (I do FPS games)
> matches my printer with not much changes to settings on same OS and install
> as the CRT
> looks nicer
> takes less space
> it rotates!!! (love that)
> lacks manual controls (do not need them) and the software is not perfect but
> decent
> it has USB ports on the side, so you can put peripherals on the other side
> of your desk if you like
>
> (Magic Rotate refuses to shut down when I want to, end program comes up.
> It may be in conflict to ATI vid drivers as they have some shared functions
> like rotate that clash.
> But if you don't use the SAMSUNG prog, when you rotate with the vid driver
> the mouse does not orient to the new direction and you can't use it
> properly.)
>
> Good advice for any comp users:
> rest eyes at least once an hour, look to infinity and stretch your vision to
> look into the distance, close them and rest them!!!!! use eye drops for
> moisture if they get dry.
> MOST IMPORTANT please work in a dimly lit room!!!! cannot overstate how
> much this affects your eyes, make sure no reflections are on your screen
> from backlight!!!!!
> stretch arms shoulder neck FREQUENTLY
> use leg rests too if your legs are dangling or pressing on your chair edges.
>
> get massages and go to chiropractor if you can....
>
> The really good monitors are so expensive, I have never been able to own an
> EIZO or similar high end
> there are some companies that still make hi quality CRT but I needed to
> replace fast and had to buy local.
> After searching my options CRT were not to be found in good selections or
> qualities in stock at local retailers. I had a Samsung before my KDS and it
> lasted forever so I trusted the brand, and saw good reviews.
>
> To translate above
> take a photo or vid of your TV set or CRT
> you will see a horizontal band moving up the frame
> normally invisible to your eye because it is so quick
> but a camera can capture this "swipe"
> you brain however is affected by it's frequency, and it does cause eye
> strain
>
>
>
>
>

Bob Williams

2007-03-16, 4:14 am

KatWoman wrote:

> "Harry Limey" <harrylimey@inbox.com> wrote in message
> news:45f260d2$0$8715$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> forgot to add
> when is the last time you had an eye exam???
> if you wear glasses make sure the person fitting you is aware of your vision
> distance from eye to monitor.
>
> I got eyeglasses for distance, for close up I don't really need them. But
> they did not measure my vision at the computer distance. Reading distance
> also differs in angle of view,. and neither is suitable for computer. I had
> to get ones just for that.
>
> Make sure you are not having to tilt your neck upwards to see the screen
> also, or move your head up and down for your glasses to focus. Small frames
> or bi focals will block a portion of the screen and you will find yourself
> moving your head to focus.
>
> I drink lot of carrot juice@!! vitamin A is good for your eyes! something to
> do with making new rods and cones?
> eat your vegetables, I find those who don't have more light sensitivity
> and in general light blue or green eyed people seem more easily affected by
> brightness
> also certain headaches like migraine make too much light painful (and
> diseases like measles)

I normally wear bi-focals. But the monitor screen is at that
inconvenient distance where neither near nor far works well for me.
I had a special pair of glasses made specifically for use with my computer.
I measured a comfortable viewing distance from the screen (20"), and
told my optometrist to write a prescription that woud make my vision
tack sharp at that distance. It is a great improvement over my regular
glasses. You might want to consider that approach.
Bob Williams

Quercus Robur

2007-03-26, 7:14 pm

Based on this thread I went out and replaced my CRT with a 19" Samsung 971P.
I am very pleased with it. I do a lot of photo editing. The detail color
and brightness is excellent.
I would like to thank KatWoman for her reccommendation.
Martin

"Doc" <nothome@thistime.com> wrote in message
news:Os3Jh.1129$hB3.584@newsfe03.lga...[color=darkred]
> Thanks KatWoman, I appreciat that info very much.
>
> KatWoman wrote:
>

KatWoman

2007-03-27, 7:14 pm

"Quercus Robur" <quercus@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:00SNh.12533$f56.7146@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Based on this thread I went out and replaced my CRT with a 19" Samsung
> 971P.
> I am very pleased with it. I do a lot of photo editing. The detail color
> and brightness is excellent.
> I would like to thank KatWoman for her reccommendation.
> Martin

You are welcome sir
Happy editing
[color=darkred]
>
> "Doc" <nothome@thistime.com> wrote in message
> news:Os3Jh.1129$hB3.584@newsfe03.lga...