Computer Graphics with Photoshop - Suicide project -- Help!

Author

Suicide project -- Help!

patrick

2004-05-24, 12:14 pm

I am about to embark on an ambitious project which could readily get out of
hand. (Some idiot at my wife's church said I was a photographer!)

The project is to shoot and edit some 250 church chalices for inclusion in a
catalog-style book with thumbnails and text description of each chalice.
We envision some six to eight items per page.

The church is over 150 years old and the chalices have historical and
personal significance as they have been donated by members over the years.
They are not consecrated but I will have to shoot them inside and on-site so
the setup will have to be somewhat simple.

I have the following resources: (Yes, I know -- I'm over-equipped!)
Nikon Coolpix 4500
Nikon D70 with a bushel of lenses
Monfrotto tripod and head
PS Elements 2.0 which I'm pretty familiar with
PS CS which I have not used
I can jury-rig a neutral backdrop
I can buy a couple of halogen shop lights. (Maybe some $200 on gear)
My computer is probably adequate as is: 1.8G, 512, 80G, ViewSonic 19"
We'll use a commercial print shop for the final product.

I do NOT have:
Studio setup
Lights except for builtin flash and SB80
Soft light box
Handyman skills

I do have lots of patience and am a receptive student.
I've been a serious amateur photographer for some 60 years. (I said,
"serious," not "skillled")

Thanks! . . . . patrick

Xalinai

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:37:59 GMT, "patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote:

>I am about to embark on an ambitious project which could readily get out of
>hand. (Some idiot at my wife's church said I was a photographer!)
>
>The project is to shoot and edit some 250 church chalices for inclusion in a
>catalog-style book with thumbnails and text description of each chalice.
>We envision some six to eight items per page.
>
>The church is over 150 years old and the chalices have historical and
>personal significance as they have been donated by members over the years.
>They are not consecrated but I will have to shoot them inside and on-site so
>the setup will have to be somewhat simple.
>
>I have the following resources: (Yes, I know -- I'm over-equipped!)
> Nikon Coolpix 4500
> Nikon D70 with a bushel of lenses
> Monfrotto tripod and head
> PS Elements 2.0 which I'm pretty familiar with
> PS CS which I have not used
> I can jury-rig a neutral backdrop
> I can buy a couple of halogen shop lights. (Maybe some $200 on gear)
> My computer is probably adequate as is: 1.8G, 512, 80G, ViewSonic 19"
>We'll use a commercial print shop for the final product.
>
>I do NOT have:
> Studio setup
> Lights except for builtin flash and SB80
> Soft light box
> Handyman skills
>
>I do have lots of patience and am a receptive student.
>I've been a serious amateur photographer for some 60 years. (I said,
>"serious," not "skillled")
>
>Thanks! . . . . patrick

This should be good enough for taking the pictures and providing the
layouter with images that will print 6.7x10 at 300 dpi (using the
D70).

If you want to do the whole book, then I'd miss a layout program on
your list.

Michael

patrick

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

Thanks for the reassurance, Michael!
My quandary now comes from how to proceed.

The first question is lighting setup with no studio lights or light stands.
I am considering using two halogen shop lights at 45 degree angles and the
camera white balance set manually at the start of the shoot. If I minimized
shadows and used a single, neutral drop cloth for background, I hoped to be
able to edit the background and add key-light effects, etc, in PS.

Second is resolution. Given that the end product is a thumbnail (though of
high expectations), what is a reasonable shooting resolution? If we presume
the final thumbnail will be (hypothetical numbers) 4x3, and we want to print
at 300dpi, is it sufficient to shoot at 1280x960?

Once I have all images in the computer, my thought is to create a separate
PS file for each image with its PS text to the right of the edited image on
a uniformily sized canvas. Then create a new file with a canvas large enough
to hold all the images for a single page, one file for each page. If the
images are of uniform size and pre-edited, I thought I could simply import
them, position each as a separate layer and lock the layer until the page is
ready to be flattened for printing.

I would consult with the printer before starting to insure his requirements
are met.

What really intimidates me is what am I missing entirely?!!

.. . . . patrick

"Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
news:40b21501.954255250@news.t-online.de...
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:37:59 GMT, "patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote:
>
of[color=darkred]
in a[color=darkred]
years.[color=darkred]
so[color=darkred]
>
> This should be good enough for taking the pictures and providing the
> layouter with images that will print 6.7x10 at 300 dpi (using the
> D70).
>
> If you want to do the whole book, then I'd miss a layout program on
> your list.
>
> Michael

jjs

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

"Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
news:40b21501.954255250@news.t-online.de...
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:37:59 GMT, "patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote:
>
of[color=darkred]
in a[color=darkred]
years.[color=darkred]
so[color=darkred]
>
> This should be good enough for taking the pictures and providing the
> layouter with images that will print 6.7x10 at 300 dpi (using the
> D70).
>
> If you want to do the whole book, then I'd miss a layout program on
> your list.
>
> Michael

Ken Burns

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

That is not a good lighting setup, it just will not work. The light coming
directly from the halogen lights will be very harsh, a highly directional
nearly point light source that will create extreme hot spots on any and all
shiney surfaces. The shadows will be inky black and sharp-edged. Before
starting this project, you need to learn a lot about controlling the
character of lighting. You need to learn how to control the light to shape
and sculpt your images. You need to learn how to both add and subtract
light, control light character using diffusion and reflection techniques,
light highly reflective surfaces indirectly, and how to use highlights and
shadows to show three dimensionality. Two hot lights set up at 45 degrees
to each side aimed directly at the subject is about the worst approach there
is.

You need to contact the printing company that will print the book. Discuss
with them the problems you will run into using PS for setting type. Also,
find out what they need from you to properly layout the pages (rez, file
format, etc.) They will let you know which page layout program is required.

KB

"patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:1Mpsc.253$vF1.131@news01.roc.ny...
> Thanks for the reassurance, Michael!
> My quandary now comes from how to proceed.
>
> The first question is lighting setup with no studio lights or light
stands.
> I am considering using two halogen shop lights at 45 degree angles and the
> camera white balance set manually at the start of the shoot. If I
minimized
> shadows and used a single, neutral drop cloth for background, I hoped to
be
> able to edit the background and add key-light effects, etc, in PS.
>
> Second is resolution. Given that the end product is a thumbnail (though of
> high expectations), what is a reasonable shooting resolution? If we
presume
> the final thumbnail will be (hypothetical numbers) 4x3, and we want to
print
> at 300dpi, is it sufficient to shoot at 1280x960?
>
> Once I have all images in the computer, my thought is to create a separate
> PS file for each image with its PS text to the right of the edited image
on
> a uniformily sized canvas. Then create a new file with a canvas large
enough
> to hold all the images for a single page, one file for each page. If the
> images are of uniform size and pre-edited, I thought I could simply import
> them, position each as a separate layer and lock the layer until the page
is
> ready to be flattened for printing.
>
> I would consult with the printer before starting to insure his
requirements
> are met.
>
> What really intimidates me is what am I missing entirely?!!
>
> . . . . patrick
>
>
> "Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
> news:40b21501.954255250@news.t-online.de...
out[color=darkred]
> of
> in a
chalice.[color=darkred]
> years.
on-site[color=darkred]
> so
>
>

jjs

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

Your digital setup is okay, Patrick, and I'll bet you are being modest
regarding your skills. One tip that I've found important for easy digital
stills is to use the soft lights with a ratio of no greater than 1:3. For
the background, I would choose an evenly lit grey of about 12% so that you
can easily extract it (drop it out) and use Photoshop to replace it with
different colored and graduated backgrounds for presentation. FWIW, a
graduated background for rounded objects can give a round-appearance to
otherwise flat-light objects. See the effect here:
http://course1.winona.edu/jstafford/ct/

jjs

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

"patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:1Mpsc.253$vF1.131@news01.roc.ny...

> The first question is lighting setup with no studio lights or light
stands.
> I am considering using two halogen shop lights at 45 degree angles and the
> camera white balance set manually at the start of the shoot. If I
minimized
> shadows and used a single, neutral drop cloth for background, I hoped to
be
> able to edit the background and add key-light effects, etc, in PS.

You really need soft light, Patrick. Polished surfaces will blow-out very
easily and also reflect the lights, making touch-up to remove them very
difficult, if not almost impossible.

> Second is resolution. Given that the end product is a thumbnail (though of
> high expectations), what is a reasonable shooting resolution? If we
presume
> the final thumbnail will be (hypothetical numbers) 4x3, and we want to
print
> at 300dpi, is it sufficient to shoot at 1280x960?

Shoot two of each: one high resolution to print at 300 to float in 8x10 and
another for small prints or the web.

> Once I have all images in the computer, my thought is to create a separate
> PS file for each image with its PS text to the right of the edited image
on
> a uniformily sized canvas. Then create a new file with a canvas large
enough
> to hold all the images for a single page, one file for each page. If the
> images are of uniform size and pre-edited, I thought I could simply import
> them, position each as a separate layer and lock the layer until the page
is
> ready to be flattened for printing.

That's just fine. To get a quick start, check out the automate - web page
option. It can evenly space a thumbnail page very nicely. You can edit from
there.

> I would consult with the printer before starting to insure his
requirements
> are met.
>
> What really intimidates me is what am I missing entirely?!!
>
> . . . . patrick
>
>
> "Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
> news:40b21501.954255250@news.t-online.de...
out[color=darkred]
> of
> in a
chalice.[color=darkred]
> years.
on-site[color=darkred]
> so
>
>

LauraK

2004-05-24, 7:14 pm

Start by building a soft box. Doesn't have to be elaborate; just a cube made
out of plastic pipe or tinker toys or whatever comes to hand.
Over that, drape cheesecloth or another thin fabric in white or cream.
Put the chalice in the light box and light from outside to get a soft, even
light.
Rent a light setup from a pro photoshop.

laurak@madmousergraphics.com
http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

Steve Moody

2004-05-24, 11:14 pm

In article <bNnsc.225$Vd1.87@news01.roc.ny>, patrick
<patw@teleport.com> wrote:

> I am about to embark on an ambitious project which could readily get out of
> hand. (Some idiot at my wife's church said I was a photographer!)

Who's the idiot? You accepted the job!

Xalinai

2004-05-25, 7:14 pm

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:53:17 GMT, "patrick" <patw@teleport.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the reassurance, Michael!
>My quandary now comes from how to proceed.
>
>The first question is lighting setup with no studio lights or light stands.
>I am considering using two halogen shop lights at 45 degree angles and the
>camera white balance set manually at the start of the shoot. If I minimized
>shadows and used a single, neutral drop cloth for background, I hoped to be
>able to edit the background and add key-light effects, etc, in PS.
>
>Second is resolution. Given that the end product is a thumbnail (though of
>high expectations), what is a reasonable shooting resolution? If we presume
>the final thumbnail will be (hypothetical numbers) 4x3, and we want to print
>at 300dpi, is it sufficient to shoot at 1280x960?

If you do not know what size the images will be, shoot at the best
resolution/lowest compression your camera has. Sure, you could save
some space using smaller images but is it worth to repeat the whole
setup if someone decides to use two of the finer images for the cover
or to illustrate a new chapter?

>Once I have all images in the computer, my thought is to create a separate
>PS file for each image with its PS text to the right of the edited image on
>a uniformily sized canvas. Then create a new file with a canvas large enough
>to hold all the images for a single page, one file for each page. If the
>images are of uniform size and pre-edited, I thought I could simply import
>them, position each as a separate layer and lock the layer until the page is
>ready to be flattened for printing.

Again: Get a layout program. Older versions are available for a few
bucks and allow for vector text with raster images, page numbering,
indexes.

Even Corel Draw is better than doing more than one page in PS.

Your "pages" will be huge files and still the resolution of 300dpi for
raster text is the lower limit.

>I would consult with the printer before starting to insure his requirements
>are met.
>
>What really intimidates me is what am I missing entirely?!!
layout program? :-)

Michael

Brian

2004-05-26, 7:14 pm

Steve Moody <whywasteyourtime@charter.net> wrote in
news:240520042055399440%whywasteyourtime@charter.net:

>
> Who's the idiot? You accepted the job!

You really needed to throw a personal insult in here.

Brian

2004-05-26, 7:14 pm

>>>I am about to embark on an ambitious project which could readily get
>
>
> You really needed to throw a personal insult in here.

I believe the original poster was first in this regard, don't you think?

Xalinai

2004-05-27, 4:14 am

On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:15:04 -0400, Brian <no.spam@no.spam.com> wrote:

>
>I believe the original poster was first in this regard, don't you think?

If you are the one who recommended him, then yes.

Otherwise he referred to someone anonymous to this group while you
refer to him - that is a difference.

Michael

Brian

2004-05-27, 12:14 pm

Xalinai wrote:

> Otherwise he referred to someone anonymous to this group while you
> refer to him - that is a difference.

Bull... an insult is an insult whether the recipient is present to
hear/observe it or not. If I call you a blathering moron offline does
that make it any less of an insult?