Computer Graphics with Photoshop - Re: Differences between Photoshop Elements 2.0 (PSE2) and Paint Shop

Author

Re: Differences between Photoshop Elements 2.0 (PSE2) and Paint Shop

Uni

2004-05-21, 11:28 pm

Bill Crocker wrote:
> "Roger" <leica35@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:jtqsa0tfe19s9alorqib6v6kamfdjs567c@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> Like you, I was confronted with the same decision. I had Photoshop Elements
> 2.0, that came with my camera, and later, I bought Paint Shop Pro 8.10,
> on-line.
>
> I originally went the Jasc's web site, to buy their Paint Shop Photo Album,
> because I thought Adobe's album program was a joke. Buying Paint Shop Pro,
> was an impulse buy (at the time), but turned out to be my favorite of the
> two. So I now use Jasc's Paint Shop Pro, and Paint Shop Photo Album,
> exclusively!
>
> Adobe's not all it's cracked up to be. It was good in it's day, but newer
> designed photo editors, are much easier to use. The new Photoshop CS is
> full of problems, and shortcomings. This is not my opinion, as I do not own
> it, but what I read every day, in their own newsgroups. But still, there is
> this "Professional" stigma, that goes along with using Adobe Photoshop, so
> people continue to buy it...or more often, boot-leg it, as it's so damned
> expensive!
>
> Bill Crocker

Well, darnit, Mr. Bill, let's see some of your hot shop Paint Shop Pro 8
work. The proof is in the pudding!!!!

:-)

Uni

p.s. Go on, tell this person your fabricated stories of Photoshop CS.
p.p.s. Be like these other frustrated PSP-8 users:

Updated: 05-06-2004

Eric wrote:
"The biggest problem I had with 7, was the text tool.
What's changed with it other than the interface?
Plus, the output is actually WORSE than 7..
which I didn't think could be possible.

Change the font... lay down some text..
convert it to curves....

go back to lay down some more text..
and the damn font and size are reverted
to Arial 24..

Played some more, and it crashed.

3 minutes to download, 2 minutes to install, 20 minutes to play..
and I've already given up on it.

Ignore about 90% of the useful suggestions that were offered.
Add a bunch of silly useless things.
Ruin the GUI.

Good job guys.

If this even remotely resembles the finished product,
it should be packaged as PSP 7.1, not 8."
-------

Greg Farr wrote:
"I can't find a attributes setting for lines, so I'm assuming they
should be correct, but If I draw a line of any size, from right to
left, in an upward arc, like a dome, the line with take it on itself
to make a straight line in the second half of the stroke, tried this
dozens of times.

It also seems to be a memory hog, more than my PS7 or Painter 7,
actually had to sit and wait for erase at 53 size to catch up, very
slow. Can't find memory settings, so I guess it doesn't have any.
The brushes seem nice, the steps work better and I can make a chalk
like painter has. I haven't done anything yet but scribble."

Greg Farr also wrote:
"Oh, it's even worse than I thot. They have stopped posts on the NG,
duh, do ya think, they coulda tested it all before going for broke.
Same thing they did with PSP 8, not ready for prime time. I'm hot and
frustrated, who wants to fight?"
-------

Sandflower wrote:
"Even Save As is gone.... For crap sake, it is a basic window
feature...
I will not longer recommend PSP to anyone....
I have been using PSP since version 3 in 1997
This new version is so disappointing... sigh.....
I was so excited when I downloaded the Bata, I was all prepared to
play....
sigh...."
-------

Roy Petersen wrote:
"Wow? Not for me. Nice, maybe would be a better word. Not flaming,
just
an opinion.

-Remarkable coincidence of appearance to PS7. (I do like it, but it
*really* looks the same)
-Remarkable coincidence of tool button 'flyouts' to Fireworks.
(except in FW, you don't have to select the tool again after choosing
it from the flyout for it to actually work)
-Hate that the keyboard shortcuts have changed.
-Dislike that icons have changed drastically.
-Selection tool enhancement is quite nice, especially edit.
-Macro/scripting feature quite nice.
-Brush creation from selection is nice.

Lots of talk about the neat filters and all that, but I already have
filters that do much of the same things..
A "must have" upgrade? I probably will upgrade for the few features I
discovered I had a real use for (in the short time I used it before I
had system issues forcing it's removal), but it isn't really a WOW
for me. Sorry."
-------

Pai Yili wrote:
"The current version of the psp BETA 8 text tool is less
usable than the version 7 incarnation."
-------

Reckless wrote:
"1 - It can open Photoshop 7 file format.... unfortunately it presents
a
single layer image so all the 'juicy' stuff is lost :(
2 - I'd hope this was added but it wasn't... when I make a selection
I
sometimes forget to set the option before selection. So the
instinctive
method is to complete the selection area and then check the forgotten
option
(feather/anti-alias). Unfortunately, PSP8 (& 7) ignores this for the
current
selection and you are force to cancel and redo selection.

PSP8 looks better (only through Office XP menus) and the docking bar
is
'OK'. Speed wise (as people mentioned here) is a tad slower than
before (for
no 'noticeable' benefits) - and whilst I accept that it's not
optimised
please don't be fooled into thinking it'll zoom along when finally
released
(I work in product software dev - yes we get improvements but they
are
usually percentages not magnitiudes of!)

Obviously the killer Q is price - each successive release has hicked
it a
lit higher so no doubt this will be the same. Hope it's not too much
an
increase!"
-------

Jonathan wrote:
"The real minimum screen size is 1024X768, and I do hope that Jasc
updates
the system requiements to reflect that in the final release.

Time for you to get a new monitor and/or graphics card. 800X600 is not
enough for graphics editing, not even close."
-------

CandyWrapperLady wrote:
"I don't like the TEXT part of PSP 8.0 or the layers. In 7- you could
set font,
kerning, leading etc. and it remembered it when you repeoned. This
one only
appears to remember the text but no settings. The layers are driving
me nuts!"
-------

Thomas wrote:
"I waited long enough for the 16bit/channel support.

This means

PSP down,
Picture Window up,

maybe even Photoshop. The 8bit per color is probably enough for all
the 'web animation' stuff, not for serious image processing and
photography though."
-------

Jaguwar wrote:
"I'm just chiming in here. I have a 366 megahertz AMD K6-2
w/3DNow!, 224 Megabytes Installed Memory, and 15 Gigs of free hard drive
space
where PSP is running. I rebooted, hoping it was my system. No luck.
Then I shut down ICQ. Some improvement, but not much. I tried a tube
and
got one on the screen, but then it stalled for a full minute
before releasing the cursor for further action.
Big bummer. :-( "
-------

Toni wrote:
"I am running Beta2 and still crashing like crazy. I am running an
Intel Pentium 4 -( 2.2ghz)- (1024 memory).
Can't understand why I keep crashing. It just totally hangs up and
won't let me do anything except ctrl/alt/delete??????? Pretty
frustrating when you can't complete a project. Can't say there is
one specific place that it hangs up.... drop shadow...cutouts..... just
about anywhere!"
-------

Dave wrote:
"I just received the PSP8 download (85MB) earlier today. Looks good so
far, but I was a little dissapointed the "One Touch" photo tool doesn't
do as good of a job as even Photoshop's 5.0 LE. Also the undo/redo tool
seems to work awfully slow, even when I increased it's file size to 1GB,
and even on a first rate pc. Time will tell..."
-------

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"I can no longer Undo using Ctrl+z. Have to go to command history.
On an earlier session today I did not have this problem. This appears
to have arisen since the crash I reported.
I'm close to ditching PSP 8...!"
-------

Evan wrote:
"Kris, Until the rendering engine is fixed I will not consider PSP8 as a
valuable addition to my software inventory. I presume you have read the
e-mail I sent (I may be wrong, 'though I suspect it was mentioned in
some meeting or other). You (Jasc) have jumped the gun on this release,
under severe pressure from marketing, I'm sure. As I have said, and
others agree, PSP8 needed at least one more round as a beta before
release. If Jasc isn't strong enough as a company financially to last
one more month with the product in development, then we, who love your
product, and in many cases rely on it to earn our daily bread, are
going to have to find an alternative thats works. For me at this time it
is PSP7. This does not help the Jasc revenue stream. I really like the
new features in PSP8, but it is broken. Would you please give some
indication as to when it will be fixed? Vauge assurances that it will be
addressed in a future update are not very inspiring. This (the render
engine) is an elementary programming problem. I have dealt with the same
issues in my own software before and overcome them. Can you (Jasc) not
do the same?"
-------

Charlie wrote:
"Most others complain of severe slowness and cumbersomeness along with
some basic PSP features either hidden or missing in PSP 8. Many mention
how long the undo takes..etc.

I have the release PSP 8 Trial version installed as well as PSP 7 and on
my 2.4G /P4 with 1G RAM and 533 mhz bus with XP Pro I have to say that
PSP 8 is a real slow dog in opening -and- in all graphic functions
compared to PSP 7."
-------

David J. Taylor wrote:
"Whatever the absolute speed is, it is a lot slower than PSP7. I
cedrtainly hope they can tweak this during it's lifetime, but it would
be a significant factor against me recommending PSP8 to anyone over PSP7."
-------

Colin Steadman wrote:
"Hello I've been wondering if Animation Shop is included with PSP8.
I've had an email from a reseller, checked Amazon and looked through
this news group, but cannot find a definitive answer!"

Joske replied to Colin Steadman:

"Yes it does, but it hasn't been upgraded so it won't know PSP8 exists.
No recognition of PSP8 image files, saving as PSP7 is needed. Also no
importing and exporting, just copy/pasting and replacing frames."
-------

Don wrote:
"I beg to differ... the fault IS with Paint Shop Pro for not saving EPS,
CDR, or PSD files properly. As I said... this is a work-around, not an
ideal solution.

IMHO Jasc wasted a lot of time putting all of those cute filters and
junk (not to mention their and my time wasted by playing "hide the menu
items" with the new user interface) into PSP8 when I still get a hard
time any time I try to get print work or publishing done."
-------

AB wrote:
"A lot of us are "outsmarted" by 8.
It's a buggy program released too quickly by a company seeing only
dollar signs."
-------

Mike wrote:
Man...I'm no pro but I'm not an idiot either. PSP has got to be the
wrost upgrade yet. Simple tasks like just creating some text have
become a chore.
If I'd known it would be this bad I would have kept PSP 7. Guess I'll
have to buy another
-------

Don/luvgeek wrote:
Let me preface this by saying that I have been using Paint Shop Pro for
9 years and have been a long time supporter and fan of the product.
I have been trying PSP8 and it doesn't seem to be quite ready for prime
time. There are serious bugs in the UI of the level of when PSP 5 was
released.

Most notably, important functions are moved around to the point of
almost qualifying as being hidden. It is so bad that it begs one to
consider if there was actual malicious intent. To top this off, context
help items do not link to the appropriate pages (e.g.. help on "Vector
Properties" takes you to "Formatting Text").

For example, I have been trying for the last hour to do a simple edit on
a vector layer. There is no "node edit" function. Help says that to edit
a vector object you need to be in node edit mode. There is no node edit
mode on the context menu, the layers context menu, or any of the menus.
There is no mention in the help on how to get into node edit mode.

Speaking of the layers palette, you need to resize the PSP window, drag
the palette to the location you want, then resize PSP again or it gets
stuck any time you drag it near the right edge of the PSP window.
Snapping it to the edge is useless since you loose the layer properties
when it is attached.

And the default setting with the preview window displayed, slows PSP
down by a factor of 10 after doing some operations on an image with
transparent layers. I suspect that this may be the cause of many of the
speed complaints seen in the newsgroups.

Finally, there is the annoyance that all of these cute new features have
been added, but proper support for PSD, EPS and other professional file
formats is still incomplete (or missing).
-------

Jared wrote:
"I cleared the TEMP folder on my hard drive,
but I still end up with this problem.

Does anyone know how I can get PSP8 to stop
locking up on me when I try to save a JPEG?

If I continue saving everything as a TIFF
I'll run out of hard drive space soon!"
-------

AC wrote:
"I very much need detail advice about a failed re-install of PSP7, and
have emailed techsup@jasc.com on 3 occasions in the previous 4 weeks,
but have not heard anything from them, apart from an automated software
problem/issue number, and a statement that please would I be patient,
they might be busy."
--------

Steve T wrote:
"I have been a PSP user since ver 6 and currently have ver 7.04. I
downloaded the "trial" version of PSP8 and have nothing but problems. I
have an Athlon 1.4mhz CPU and 512mb ram and running XP. No anti-virus
(offline computer), no firewall, no utilities such as Norton's running
in background and my system froze with 4 PSP file format images open. My
system was stressed out by this. Unreal! Half the time I try to save a
file as a .jpg I get an error has occurred while trying to write to
file. The PSP8 saved files are invalid in PSP7 and cannot be opened. I
get errors and corruption trying to move files from PSP8 to Jumpdrives
or ZIP disks. I installed the 8.01 patch. I love PSP7 but this new
version is a pain in the XXX and dead slow. I have PSP7 on my online
computer. It is only a 500mhz/384mb ram unit with AV,firewall,etc. and
it flies through operations that bog down with PSP8. Are others having
the same problems with simple things as saving files in
..jpg format? Thanks, Steve T."
--------

JamesBahn wrote:
"I've been a PSP user since V3. JASC used to really put out
bulletproof software, but I've found PSP8 to literally be unusable. I
can't open files I can open with PSP5 and 7. Forget about the new
features; I can't open most jpg files. Does JASC even HAVE a QA dept
anymore? I doubt it. The huge patch wouldn't even install. I have
to assume that these guys don't even care anymore. And I'd have to
guess that the old-timers are gone, or they're rich and aren't paying
attention.

My question is; how can you people even take this stuff seriously?
It's drek."
-------

clintonG wrote:
"Yes, its real slow not to mention all of the other problems with this
release. I really want to upgrade but there's no way I can justify doing
so. I'll be waiting awhile to see if Jasc wises up. If not? At some
point I'll be compelled to consider a competitive product."
-------

Avonz La'Sonte wrote:
"Yeah boyee!!!! Yeah I wish I never bought PSP8"
-------

GTO wrote:
"Thanks to both replies.
I submitted bug #1 to JASC. I was also not able to reproduce bug #2 on
an other system.
In the meantime, I crashed PSP 8.01 when trying to undo four consecutive
strokes with the warp-brush.
I will wait until 8.04 shows up before I delete 7.04. Did JASC add too
many fancy features to version 8 and finally turn a very stable
application into a nightmare?"
-------

Static wrote:
"Anyone know if there is a limitation in the eval product of PSP 8.0
(Just downloaded and installed tonight) ... I can not open a JPEG file
and do a save as - run optimizer. Each time I do, the program stops
responding.
I'm running WinXP SP1 ... the image is large 600k.
I tried v7.x a while ago on Win2k with no issues.
Thanks for any advice."
-------

Marte Palmer wrote:
"I have seen a number of posts identifying this same issue. When
running PSP8.01, if I try to browse a folder with a large image count,
the application freezes."

diana replied to Marte:
"It will have to be a new patch I guess. I have the same problem, lost
some work several times this past week due to trying to composite images
using the browser to fetch them. I forget to save before each time I
need to access the browser and it gets me way too often. It was so
frequent and frustrating I went back to PSP7 to finish the work."
--------

Psiborg wrote:
"Long load times but things also just feel
sluggish in 8 compared to 7.04. Like many here, I've used PSP since
it's earliest days and this is the first version I won't be upgrading too."
--------

Janus wrote:
"I have a number of usability/crash issues with PSP8, and also a number
of selections. Since there are so many, I figured it might be wise to
post a thread here on the forums so more experienced PSP8 users can give
me tips on some of them, and put in their two cents. I figure once the
helpful forum users solve half of these issues, I can file a support
request with Jasc about the ones that are left. Or something. :)"
--------

Rick Simon wrote:
"I'm giving 8.1 a pass for now. I don't have the time or inclination for
more beta testing at this point. As far as the NNTP interface, I've also
given up on that for now. I've tried numerous times over the last couple
of days and it's down far more often than it's up. Even when it's up,
it's slow at best, the message counts are all messed up and I have yet
to be able to open up the General Discussion newsgroup (the largest
group). It hangs every time I try to access it. I've been waiting 3
months for this? Personally, I'm rather disgusted over the whole thing."
--------

John wrote:
"So they are shipping an old version and leaving you to download a very
large update or hang on for this promised replacement!"
--------

ray & carol wade wrote:
"Since I upgraded to psp 8.10 my system crashes with no warning if I have
several images open. It may be a memory problem, but I don't remember
having it occur before I upgraded. Anyone else with this prob, or
thoughts as to why?"
--------

rfdjr wrote:
"I recently loaded PSP8 onto a new system running WindowsXP
Professional. Half the icons in my toolbar are gone. I can put the
cursor over where they should be and see the text telling me what it
is, but the icon is gone. Any idea why? Thanks."
--------

Richard Finnigan wrote:
"I have used Paintshio Pro 8 for several months now and I am really sick
of the irratating little bugs that crop up. Today for instance I select
a black shape. I then used it to make a selection area which I used to
select part of another image. I copy and pasted this selection as a new
image and I found that it left little lines of pixels along the edge of
image. I have also encountered another equally irratating fault."
--------

rfdjr1 wrote:
"I'm running PSP 8.10 on a Windows XP Pro machine, with a 3.2Ghz
processor and 1Gb or RAM. I have a Radeon 9200 video card with all the
latest drivers and 128Mb on board memory. When I run PSP, most of the
icons in my toolbar are missing. I went to JASC's site (I couldn't get
through to tech support, the phone just rang and rang) and in their
FAQ's, I found that to "solve" the problem of icons disappearing, I
had to drop hardware acceleration by 33% or else not customize my
toolbar. I've used Paint Shop Pro for about ten years and was always
happy with it. Now I'm somewhat fed up that JASC can't write a
program that you can customize you toolbar or use all the resources of
a pretty decent system. Anyone else have this problem? Sorry for
venting."
--------
Cheetah wrote:
"I have PSP7.04 and PSP8.1, using WinXP. I am just learning to use 8.1,
but I notice that it crashes a lot. I thought it might be because I only
had 256 RAM, so I bought some more memory and now have 768 RAM. It is
still crashing. I thought perhaps I was overboard on the fonts and
plugins, so I've removed several of them, but it still crashes. Since I
never had such a problem with 7.04, I'm wondering if it is 8.1 or my
computer or .....

Any advice will be appreciated. I'd like to know if anyone else is
having this problem, and what to do to avoid it."
--------

Jim Thompson wrote:
"I'm PO'd (that's polite talk for another word beginning with "P").

Frustrated by this EVER RECURRING problem where you double-click on an
item in Windows Explorer and get the error message (something like)
"Can't find file, or a component, or a library" I uninstalled PSPv8.1.

Usually I stop right there and re-install, but since this CONTINUALLY
RECURS...

I searched the Registry and STILL found a TON of PSP items, I
proceeded to delete all of them.

Now PSv8.1 won't install. Windows Installer reports that "The
configuration data for this product is corrupt. Contact your support
personnel."

(Windows Installer is fine... I was able to install TurboTax tonight,
so I can file for an extension ;-)

Now what?

Signed, One VERY P'd PSP User, considering being an Ex-User/Purchaser."
--------

Naomi wrote:
"The original PSP8 was 319 mb; the 8.10 patch is 506mb on my machine.
Is this consistent? Can something be removed. That's a pretty heavy
load. I think I've got disk on the original, possibly download on the
patch. Thanks, Naomi"
--------

Joe Fromm, from Jasc Software wrote:
"I won't promise that at 350Mhz will always keep up."
--------

>
>
>
>

--
"I am not getting any new articles on Octanews for the last several
hours. I am posting through their posting server though, and the
articles are getting out." - Paine, 2004

"I cannot go to the websites of Octanews & Shared-Secrets, something
wrong?" - Psycho, 2004

"Octanews: Error 441: Non Existent Newsgroup(s) - I've just signed up
for a 4 gig block, and can D/L headers and bodies
but when I try to post I get the error msg.
Anyone know why?" - Jo, 2004

"If you're gonna do forging, I recommend Altopia! Mmmm, uncensored
news. ^_^ " - Onideus Mad Hatter, 2004

"I am being forged in another group, forged using my nic as well as
my valid email address. I tried to forward the headers to
'abuse@usenetserver.com', the abuse address listed in UNS posts,
and the email bounced saying the address was not valid." - Be4U, 2003

Uni

2004-05-22, 7:28 pm

Xalinai wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 18:46:48 -0400, Uni <no.email@no.email.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> As you read c.g.a.Photoshop you know that the people there are having
> similar problems using CS than people here using 8.1.
>
> Some are the common 20" problem, others result from the program not
> working correctly or only different from the users expectations.
>
> In both groups you find helpful and less helpful people - but I really
> don't understand what keeps your hatred on JASC burning over such a
> long time. Is it two years since you started your crusade?

Hatred? You say hatred? I hate no one, X'.

:-)

<Uni reviews the Photoshop groups>

Hmmm, looks like they're posting helpful graphics tips there, rather
than in the Paint Shop Pro group, where daily software complaints are a
reality.

:-)

Uni

>
> Michael
>