Computer Graphics with Photoshop - Best CRT for under $300

Author

Best CRT for under $300

hassy_user

2004-10-05, 12:14 pm

Hello all,

My next photographic purchase will be a better CRT on which to edit
and print my photographs to my Epson 2200. I will have course be
calibrating the whole system. I have no idea where to start or how to
judge the quality of a monitor before getting it home and testing the
workflow, so I'm looking to get a starting point based on reputation.
I've given up on the idea of an LCD on my budget, and I understand
that with $300 I should be able to do pretty well with a CRT. Any
specific suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Christopher

RSD99

2004-10-05, 7:14 pm

"hassy_user" posted:
"...
and I understand that with $300 I should be able to do
pretty well with a CRT. Any specific suggestions? Thanks
in advance.
...."

I think you "understand" wrong. You should be able to get a
small monitor that "actually works" for that price, but you
should *not* expect to get a "professional graphics monitor"
.... one that is close enough to use for critical work.

For example, see the write-up on the Sony Artisan:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/r...essories/sony-a
rtisan.shtml

Other professional-level CRT monitors would be offerings
such as the Radius Pressview or the Barco Reference monitor

Question:
You sign yourself as "hassy_user" ... and Hasselblads are
usually considered as high quality, but definitely "not
cheap." Why are you getting "cheap" on your computer
equipment? Don't you think that quality software and quality
equipment is also required in your "digital darkroom" (I
think I'm beginning to hate that phrase ...)?

hassy_user

2004-10-05, 7:14 pm

tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user) wrote in message news:<37ac58bd.0410050509.3342735b@posting.google.com>...
> Hello all,
>
> My next photographic purchase will be a better CRT on which to edit
> and print my photographs to my Epson 2200. I will have course be
> calibrating the whole system. I have no idea where to start or how to
> judge the quality of a monitor before getting it home and testing the
> workflow, so I'm looking to get a starting point based on reputation.
> I've given up on the idea of an LCD on my budget, and I understand
> that with $300 I should be able to do pretty well with a CRT. Any
> specific suggestions? Thanks in advance.
>
> Christopher

I saw a used Lacie Electron Blue II today for really cheap. Is it ok
to get one so old, or should wait a bit and get the newer model (IV)?
Or is it a bad choice altogether? Thanks.

Hecate

2004-10-05, 11:14 pm

On 5 Oct 2004 11:37:31 -0700, tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user)
wrote:

>tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user) wrote in message news:<37ac58bd.0410050509.3342735b@posting.google.com>...
>
>I saw a used Lacie Electron Blue II today for really cheap. Is it ok
>to get one so old, or should wait a bit and get the newer model (IV)?
>Or is it a bad choice altogether? Thanks.

CRTs degrade over time. Buy a new pone. Any of the following:

Iiyama
Mitsubishi
LaCie

All will give you good results for the price range you are quoting,
but to get excellent results you will need to increase your budget
and, most importantly, include the cost of a spider like the one
offered on www.gretagmacbeth.com

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

hassy_user

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

"RSD99" <rsdwla.NOSPAM@gte.net> wrote in message news:<LYz8d.4459$eq1.3277@trnddc08>...
> "hassy_user" posted:
> "...
> and I understand that with $300 I should be able to do
> pretty well with a CRT. Any specific suggestions? Thanks
> in advance.
> ..."
>
> I think you "understand" wrong. You should be able to get a
> small monitor that "actually works" for that price, but you
> should *not* expect to get a "professional graphics monitor"
> ... one that is close enough to use for critical work.
>
> For example, see the write-up on the Sony Artisan:
> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/r...essories/sony-a
> rtisan.shtml
>
> Other professional-level CRT monitors would be offerings
> such as the Radius Pressview or the Barco Reference monitor
>
> Question:
> You sign yourself as "hassy_user" ... and Hasselblads are
> usually considered as high quality, but definitely "not
> cheap." Why are you getting "cheap" on your computer
> equipment? Don't you think that quality software and quality
> equipment is also required in your "digital darkroom" (I
> think I'm beginning to hate that phrase ...)?

So do you think a calibrated 19" LaCie Electron IV for $375 (yes, my
budget has gone up slightly) will allow me to produce consistent
results? The rest of my "digital darkroom" (yes, I agree-that phrase
has to go) includes an Epson 2200 and Photoshop CS, on a Pentium 4
machine, so I don't think I'm cheaping out on that end. I just don't
have $1000+ for a monitor. I didn't spend that on my basic Hasselblad
kit!

I think there is a huge difference in talking about Hasselblad vs.
monitor in that a 30-year old Hasselblad can be found used for $600
and continue to shoot consistently for at least another 10 or 20 years
with only minor maintenance. I don't think a monitor is the same, so
the cost becomes, for me, more of an issue. I'm not rich (yet) :)

I want to be able to get almost WYSIWYG, or at least close enough that
I'm not blowing time, ink, and very expensive paper (I've standardized
on the Pictorico Hi-Gloss) on each print. I don't do heavy
manipulations - not much outside of what I could do in a darkroom,
except that contrast masking is much easier in PS.

So to rephrase my original question, can I get a decent workflow for
photo printing so that I don't need to make more than one test print
per shot using a ~$300 properly calibrated monitor, such as the LaCie,
along with my calibrated 2200?

Thanks

Chris

hassy_user

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

Hecate <hecate@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<m2k6m012aik7horroc9b06mgtulo136blv@4ax.com>...
> On 5 Oct 2004 11:37:31 -0700, tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user)
> wrote:
>
>
> CRTs degrade over time. Buy a new pone. Any of the following:
>
> Iiyama
> Mitsubishi
> LaCie
>
> All will give you good results for the price range you are quoting,
> but to get excellent results you will need to increase your budget
> and, most importantly, include the cost of a spider like the one
> offered on www.gretagmacbeth.com
>
> --
>
> Hecate - The Real One
> Hecate@newsguy.com
> veni, vidi, reliqui

Thanks, Hecate.

My current setup is calibrated with the Gretag, but my friend is going
to buy the new Monaco as soon as it comes out, and has offered to let
me use it if I split the price, which I certainly will.

I have not looked too closely at the Iiyama or Mitsubishi, but will
now. Any particular models outshine the rest?

Chris

Helmut P. Einfalt

2004-10-07, 4:14 am

hassy_user wrote:
> I have not looked too closely at the Iiyama or Mitsubishi, but will
> now. Any particular models outshine the rest?

When my good 19" Daewoo gave up this summer after seven years of heavy
duty (it probably could have been repaired, but at a price...), I had
about the budget you have. After looking at very many monitors I chose
an LG Flatron (the F900p) and fared very well with it, It required
some calibration as any monitor does, but yes,
it is pretty consistent in its colours and the absolutely flat front
is a nice feature to have.

Helmut
--
All typos © My Knotty Fingers Ltd. Capacity Dept.

Hecate

2004-10-07, 7:14 am

On 6 Oct 2004 10:44:27 -0700, tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user)
wrote:

>
>Thanks, Hecate.
>
>My current setup is calibrated with the Gretag, but my friend is going
>to buy the new Monaco as soon as it comes out, and has offered to let
>me use it if I split the price, which I certainly will.
>
>I have not looked too closely at the Iiyama or Mitsubishi, but will
>now. Any particular models outshine the rest?
>
The 19" ones are pretty good as long as you keep them calibrated (but
that's true of all monitors). Personally, we have both Iiyama Vision
Master Pro 454s and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro (can't remember the
number). Our next purchase will be a TFT, but that will be an Eizo ;-)

Personally, I prefer the Gretag. I find it more accurate than the
Monaco system, but that's IMHO, of course.

Give it a few more years and TFT screens will undoubtedly be better,
but the most accurate colour is still from CRT and even the cheaper
end will give you more accurate colour than a mid-range TFT, so you
won't lose out.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

hassy_user

2004-10-08, 7:14 pm

Hecate <hecate@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<o569m0dtgvu8kfm4pos8dgngf12i7pvk7m@4ax.com>...
> On 6 Oct 2004 10:44:27 -0700, tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user)
> wrote:
>
>
> The 19" ones are pretty good as long as you keep them calibrated (but
> that's true of all monitors). Personally, we have both Iiyama Vision
> Master Pro 454s and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro (can't remember the
> number). Our next purchase will be a TFT, but that will be an Eizo ;-)
>
> Personally, I prefer the Gretag. I find it more accurate than the
> Monaco system, but that's IMHO, of course.
>
> Give it a few more years and TFT screens will undoubtedly be better,
> but the most accurate colour is still from CRT and even the cheaper
> end will give you more accurate colour than a mid-range TFT, so you
> won't lose out.
>
> --
>
> Hecate - The Real One
> Hecate@newsguy.com
> veni, vidi, reliqui

The Diamond Pro comes in a 17", which is great for my small space, and
it's only $200. I think I'll have to go that way.

I had a big problem calibrating my 2200 with the Gretag. The profile
was just way off, but that could have been just my inexperience. The
canned paper profile from Pictorico works way better for now. Have
you compared the Gretag and Monaco for printers? It also generated an
invalid profile for my laptop lcd, but my expectations were low on
that anyway. I hate my laptop lcd.

Al Dykes

2004-10-08, 7:14 pm

In article <41644091$0$24330$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>,
Helmut P. Einfalt <NOSPAMhelmut.p.einfalt@aon.at> wrote:
>hassy_user wrote:
>
>When my good 19" Daewoo gave up this summer after seven years of heavy
>duty (it probably could have been repaired, but at a price...), I had
>about the budget you have. After looking at very many monitors I chose
>an LG Flatron (the F900p) and fared very well with it, It required
>some calibration as any monitor does, but yes,
>it is pretty consistent in its colours and the absolutely flat front
>is a nice feature to have.
>
>Helmut
>--
>All typos © My Knotty Fingers Ltd. Capacity Dept.
>

I'm not at the preofessional level of the other posters, but let me
put a plug in for a Viewsonic P95F+ monitor (18 inch). Tre flat
screen CRT, but I expect most of them are by now.

Cost $250 +35 shipping,

It looks great.

--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

Hecate

2004-10-08, 11:14 pm

On 8 Oct 2004 06:20:07 -0700, tempforward7@hotmail.com (hassy_user)
wrote:

>The Diamond Pro comes in a 17", which is great for my small space, and
>it's only $200. I think I'll have to go that way.
>
>I had a big problem calibrating my 2200 with the Gretag. The profile
>was just way off, but that could have been just my inexperience. The
>canned paper profile from Pictorico works way better for now. Have
>you compared the Gretag and Monaco for printers? It also generated an
>invalid profile for my laptop lcd, but my expectations were low on
>that anyway. I hate my laptop lcd.

I don't use the printer version, just the monitor, which is the most
difficult thing to get correct. Then I settled on the ink for my
printer (the 21000 - same as your's but European and with the all
extras like the gray balancer that you don't get <g> ). And found the
papers I wanted to use as well. Then I got a custom profile for those
papers with those inks.

Incidentally, the canned profile provided by Epson for that printer is
pretty good and as long as you use soft proofing you shouldn't have a
problem

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

Pixmaker

2004-10-11, 12:14 pm

FWIW, I bought a 19" Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB for about $300
(can't remember exactly) and I'm delighted with it. This monitor,
together with my Spyder, gives me near WYSIWYG to an Epson 2200.

Yes, there are better, and more expensive, setups but I'm still
learning and this arrangement will serve me well until I improve to
the point where I am annoyed by its limitations.

THEN, I'll move on up.

Pixmaker in FLL
==========================
It's not the heat, it's the humidity!
==========================
(...Think the humidity's bad?
You should watch us vote!)

Stanley Krute

2004-10-11, 7:14 pm

I use Mitsubishi Diamond Pro monitors, calibrated
with a Spyder, and am able to get perfect WYSIWYG prints off
of my Epson 1270 and 960 printers. On the Epsons,
I don't use profiles, but just tweak the color sliders
to calibrate. Printing on ColorLife paper. I use qimage
to print.

Hecate

2004-10-12, 4:14 am