quote:

---

>I have been using PSP7 for a while along with
>MS Photodraw and have gone for a 30 day trial
>of Photoshop.
>From my limited experience with PS is it worth
>pursuing with the intension of a working version.
>I am not a pro but a very keen hobbyist as I spend
>a lot of time on my PC 'playing' with my digital images.
>I agree that it seems to have more options but I like the
>effects with PSP, for instance can I create curling
>corners in photo's in PS as easily as PSP ?
>I would like to upgrade for the experience, but
>would it be worth it ?

---

quote:

---

>On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:24:47 +0000 (UTC), "Mike" <spam@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>

---

quote:

---

>I'd avoid PS Elements, as it's a bit dumbed
>down for really serious work.
>
>

---

quote:

---

> I have been using PSP7 for a while along with
> MS Photodraw and have gone for a 30 day trial
> of Photoshop.
> From my limited experience with PS is it worth
> pursuing with the intension of a working version.
> I am not a pro but a very keen hobbyist as I spend
> a lot of time on my PC 'playing' with my digital images.
> I agree that it seems to have more options but I like the
> effects with PSP, for instance can I create curling
> corners in photo's in PS as easily as PSP ?
> I would like to upgrade for the experience, but
> would it be worth it ?
>
>

---

quote:

---

> An interesting appraisal - thanks.
>
> You didn't mention the one difference between PSP and Photoshop
> that prevents me from using PSP. It doesn't do colour
> management - at least not in any usable way.

---

quote:

---

> Yes I did.... color management is a biggie.
> "Graeme Cogger" <gcogger@bigSPAMfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:401025c5$0$9389$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
>
>
>

---

quote:

---

> I have been using PSP7 for a while along with
> MS Photodraw and have gone for a 30 day trial
> of Photoshop.
> From my limited experience with PS is it worth
> pursuing with the intension of a working version.
> I am not a pro but a very keen hobbyist as I spend
> a lot of time on my PC 'playing' with my digital images.
> I agree that it seems to have more options but I like the
> effects with PSP, for instance can I create curling
> corners in photo's in PS as easily as PSP ?
> I would like to upgrade for the experience, but
> would it be worth it ?
>
>

---

quote:

---

> I have, use, and teach both. There are strengths and weaknesses to both.
>
> I'm going to leave Elements out of this discussion, as the tendency to
> compare
> Elements to PSP is always there, because of the similar price points.

---

quote:

---

> is a
> very bad thing to do. PSP has far more in common with Photoshop than
> Elements. Elements was an intentionally dumbed down version of PS,
> and I think someone must have been indulging in controlled substances
> when they decided what did and didn't make the cut. It is totally
> nonsensical.
> You have layer styles but no good way to straighten a photo or draw an
> arc?? Place a photo with a strong diagonal--(like a stair railing) in
> Elements
> and choose the straighten option. You could probably use a laugh.
>
> Photoshop is the industry standard for a lot of reasons, some having more

---

quote:

---

> do with the fact that it runs effortlessly on Mac OS than actual
> functionality.
> (PSP has never run well in anything other than Windows, though there has
> been a dedicated group who run it in various flavors of Linux)
> Apple has traditionally been the platform of choice for the design

---

quote:

---

> That may be changing a little, but as long as it predominates,the design
> schools will continue to teach it, which sets up a cause and effect.
> But PS also has superior color management, offset press output, Pantone
> support, and curves and channels are more accessible. With the launch of
> CS,
> if you are using your image editor for work in Video, there are some
> compelling reasons to use PS over PSP. And there is the whole layer styles
> thing...I'm of 2 minds about layer styles. Intellectually, I like them,

---

quote:

---

> they
> tend to force changes in my workflow, so I find myself working around them
> at times. Dynamite for text effects, a pain in the butt if you just want
> to bevel a selection without adding a new layer.
>
> However, it costs five or six times as much, has a XXXXX of a learning
> curve,
> has a workspace less customizable than MS Word's, and makes doing some
> things that ought to be simple a vision quest. It loves keyboard

---

quote:

---

> but
> will not let you add or subtract an icon from a toolbar.
>
> To PSP's credit, you can probably do 90% of what can be done in PS in

---

quote:

---

> and some things you can't do in PS at all. Many of the tools (warp tools,
> histogram
> adjustment and manual color correction, vector tools, and perspective
> correction
> come immediately to mind) are superior to Adobe's, or have no direct
> correlation
> in PS. The kinds of effects that you talk about (page curl, for example)
> are things
> I almost never use, but they are "built in" to PSP-- in PS, there are

---

quote:

---

> to find
> plugins. In fact, there are three or four free plugins I recommend to PSP
> users
> that go a long way to leveling the playing field with PS. Amphisoft's
> Convolution
> Shaman, MuRa's Cloud and Copies (plasma clouds and radial blur) are must
> haves
> that cost you nothing except a few minutes of connection time. (But don't
> tell
> Photoshop guru Scott Kelby that page curl is hackneyed and passe'- his new
> book
> has a chapter dedicated to the process). With PSP8, the introduction of
> scripting
> (macros), complete user customization of the workspace,
> and a few other goodies, it is a very strong package at a very affordable
> price, particularly
> for those who do web work or photography, rather than offset printing.
>
> And, yes, there are many more PS books than PSP books. But the dirty

---

quote:

---

> secret
> is that you can, with a little experience, convert the processes for PS to
> PSP almost
> effortlessly.
>
> Does PSP have down sides? Sure. Everything does. Some of the native

---

quote:

---

> are
> just totally useless, so you are storing and loading code I'd rather live
> without. Do
> I like the way PS handles channels and curves better? You betcha. Would I
> miss
> the healing brush if I did more photo work? Probably, but PSP's scratch
> remover
> (the tool, not the filter) does a pretty good job on a lot of things. Are
> the filters
> and tools organized and named inconsistently? Ummm, yeah. But their
> background eraser beats PS's to hell, and the warp tools are so much

---

quote:

---

> than PS's Liquefy that once you use the Warp brushes, you'll never open
> Liquefy again.
>
> Do you need offset, Pantone, video support? PS, hands down. If not,and if
> you're
> not a graphics professional who needs to work on a Mac...It's users
> choice....
>
>
>
> "Mike" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bukgsf$1bn$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>

---

quote:

---

> I have been using PSP7 for a while along with
> MS Photodraw and have gone for a 30 day trial
> of Photoshop.
> From my limited experience with PS is it worth
> pursuing with the intension of a working version.
> I am not a pro but a very keen hobbyist as I spend
> a lot of time on my PC 'playing' with my digital images.
> I agree that it seems to have more options but I like the
> effects with PSP, for instance can I create curling
> corners in photo's in PS as easily as PSP ?
> I would like to upgrade for the experience, but
> would it be worth it ?
>
>

---

quote:

---

>Mike wrote:
>
>PSP-8 comments, unaltered, from a PSP newsgroup:
>
>Updated: 01-21-2004
>
>Eric wrote:
>"The biggest problem I had with 7, was the text tool.
>What's changed with it other than the interface?
>Plus, the output is actually WORSE than 7..
>which I didn't think could be possible.
>
>Change the font... lay down some text..
>convert it to curves....
>
>go back to lay down some more text..
>and the damn font and size are reverted
>to Arial 24..
>
>Played some more, and it crashed.
>
>3 minutes to download, 2 minutes to install, 20 minutes to play..
>and I've already given up on it.
>
>Ignore about 90% of the useful suggestions that were offered.
>Add a bunch of silly useless things.
>Ruin the GUI.
>
>Good job guys.
>
>If this even remotely resembles the finished product,
>it should be packaged as PSP 7.1, not 8."
>-------
>
>Greg Farr wrote:
>"I can't find a attributes setting for lines, so I'm assuming they
>should be correct, but If I draw a line of any size, from right to
>left, in an upward arc, like a dome, the line with take it on itself
>to make a straight line in the second half of the stroke, tried this
>dozens of times.
>
>It also seems to be a memory hog, more than my PS7 or Painter 7,
>actually had to sit and wait for erase at 53 size to catch up, very
>slow. Can't find memory settings, so I guess it doesn't have any.
>The brushes seem nice, the steps work better and I can make a chalk
>like painter has. I haven't done anything yet but scribble."
>
>
>Greg Farr also wrote:
>"Oh, it's even worse than I thot. They have stopped posts on the NG,
>duh, do ya think, they coulda tested it all before going for broke.
>Same thing they did with PSP 8, not ready for prime time. I'm hot and
>frustrated, who wants to fight?"
>-------
>
>Sandflower wrote:
>"Even Save As is gone.... For crap sake, it is a basic window
>feature...
>I will not longer recommend PSP to anyone....
>I have been using PSP since version 3 in 1997
>This new version is so disappointing... sigh.....
>I was so excited when I downloaded the Bata, I was all prepared to
>play....
>sigh...."
>-------
>
>Roy Petersen wrote:
>"Wow? Not for me. Nice, maybe would be a better word. Not flaming,
>just
>an opinion.
>
>-Remarkable coincidence of appearance to PS7. (I do like it, but it
>*really* looks the same)
>-Remarkable coincidence of tool button 'flyouts' to Fireworks.
>(except in FW, you don't have to select the tool again after choosing
>it from the flyout for it to actually work)
>-Hate that the keyboard shortcuts have changed.
>-Dislike that icons have changed drastically.
>-Selection tool enhancement is quite nice, especially edit.
>-Macro/scripting feature quite nice.
>-Brush creation from selection is nice.
>
>Lots of talk about the neat filters and all that, but I already have
>filters that do much of the same things..
>A "must have" upgrade? I probably will upgrade for the few features I
>discovered I had a real use for (in the short time I used it before I
>had system issues forcing it's removal), but it isn't really a WOW
>for me. Sorry."
>-------
>
>Pai Yili wrote:
>"The current version of the psp BETA 8 text tool is less
>usable than the version 7 incarnation."
>-------
>
>Reckless wrote:
>"1 - It can open Photoshop 7 file format.... unfortunately it presents
>a
>single layer image so all the 'juicy' stuff is lost :(
>2 - I'd hope this was added but it wasn't... when I make a selection
>I
>sometimes forget to set the option before selection. So the
>instinctive
>method is to complete the selection area and then check the forgotten
>option
>(feather/anti-alias). Unfortunately, PSP8 (& 7) ignores this for the
>current
>selection and you are force to cancel and redo selection.
>
>PSP8 looks better (only through Office XP menus) and the docking bar
>is
>'OK'. Speed wise (as people mentioned here) is a tad slower than
>before (for
>no 'noticeable' benefits) - and whilst I accept that it's not
>optimised
>please don't be fooled into thinking it'll zoom along when finally
>released
>(I work in product software dev - yes we get improvements but they
>are
>usually percentages not magnitiudes of!)
>
>Obviously the killer Q is price - each successive release has hicked
>it a
>lit higher so no doubt this will be the same. Hope it's not too much
>an
>increase!"
>-------
>
>Jonathan wrote:
>"The real minimum screen size is 1024X768, and I do hope that Jasc
>updates
>the system requiements to reflect that in the final release.
>
>Time for you to get a new monitor and/or graphics card. 800X600 is not
>enough for graphics editing, not even close."
>-------
>
>CandyWrapperLady wrote:
>"I don't like the TEXT part of PSP 8.0 or the layers. In 7- you could
>set font,
>kerning, leading etc. and it remembered it when you repeoned. This
>one only
>appears to remember the text but no settings. The layers are driving
>me nuts!"
>-------
>
>Thomas wrote:
>"I waited long enough for the 16bit/channel support.
>
>This means
>
>PSP down,
>Picture Window up,
>
>maybe even Photoshop. The 8bit per color is probably enough for all
>the 'web animation' stuff, not for serious image processing and
>photography though."
>-------
>
>Jaguwar wrote:
>"I'm just chiming in here. I have a 366 megahertz AMD K6-2
>w/3DNow!, 224 Megabytes Installed Memory, and 15 Gigs of free hard drive
>space
>where PSP is running. I rebooted, hoping it was my system. No luck.
>Then I shut down ICQ. Some improvement, but not much. I tried a tube
>and
>got one on the screen, but then it stalled for a full minute
>before releasing the cursor for further action.
>Big bummer. :-( "
>-------
>
>Toni wrote:
>"I am running Beta2 and still crashing like crazy. I am running an
>Intel Pentium 4 -( 2.2ghz)- (1024 memory).
>Can't understand why I keep crashing. It just totally hangs up and
>won't let me do anything except ctrl/alt/delete??????? Pretty
>frustrating when you can't complete a project. Can't say there is
>one specific place that it hangs up.... drop shadow...cutouts..... just
>about anywhere!"
>-------
>
>Dave wrote:
>"I just received the PSP8 download (85MB) earlier today. Looks good so
>far, but I was a little dissapointed the "One Touch" photo tool doesn't
>do as good of a job as even Photoshop's 5.0 LE. Also the undo/redo tool
>seems to work awfully slow, even when I increased it's file size to 1GB,
>and even on a first rate pc. Time will tell..."
>-------
>
>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>"I can no longer Undo using Ctrl+z. Have to go to command history.
>On an earlier session today I did not have this problem. This appears
>to have arisen since the crash I reported.
>I'm close to ditching PSP 8...!"
>-------
>
>Evan wrote:
>"Kris, Until the rendering engine is fixed I will not consider PSP8 as a
>valuable addition to my software inventory. I presume you have read the
>e-mail I sent (I may be wrong, 'though I suspect it was mentioned in
>some meeting or other). You (Jasc) have jumped the gun on this release,
>under severe pressure from marketing, I'm sure. As I have said, and
>others agree, PSP8 needed at least one more round as a beta before
>release. If Jasc isn't strong enough as a company financially to last
>one more month with the product in development, then we, who love your
>product, and in many cases rely on it to earn our daily bread, are
>going to have to find an alternative thats works. For me at this time it
>is PSP7. This does not help the Jasc revenue stream. I really like the
>new features in PSP8, but it is broken. Would you please give some
>indication as to when it will be fixed? Vauge assurances that it will be
>addressed in a future update are not very inspiring. This (the render
>engine) is an elementary programming problem. I have dealt with the same
>issues in my own software before and overcome them. Can you (Jasc) not
>do the same?"
>-------
>
>Charlie wrote:
>"Most others complain of severe slowness and cumbersomeness along with
>some basic PSP features either hidden or missing in PSP 8. Many mention
>how long the undo takes..etc.
>
>I have the release PSP 8 Trial version installed as well as PSP 7 and on
>my 2.4G /P4 with 1G RAM and 533 mhz bus with XP Pro I have to say that
>PSP 8 is a real slow dog in opening -and- in all graphic functions
>compared to PSP 7."
>-------
>
>David J. Taylor wrote:
>"Whatever the absolute speed is, it is a lot slower than PSP7. I
>cedrtainly hope they can tweak this during it's lifetime, but it would
>be a significant factor against me recommending PSP8 to anyone over PSP7."
>-------
>
>Colin Steadman wrote:
>"Hello I've been wondering if Animation Shop is included with PSP8.
>I've had an email from a reseller, checked Amazon and looked through
>this news group, but cannot find a definitive answer!"
>
>Joske replied to Colin Steadman:
>
>"Yes it does, but it hasn't been upgraded so it won't know PSP8 exists.
>No recognition of PSP8 image files, saving as PSP7 is needed. Also no
>importing and exporting, just copy/pasting and replacing frames."
>-------
>
>Don wrote:
>"I beg to differ... the fault IS with Paint Shop Pro for not saving EPS,
>CDR, or PSD files properly. As I said... this is a work-around, not an
>ideal solution.
>
>IMHO Jasc wasted a lot of time putting all of those cute filters and
>junk (not to mention their and my time wasted by playing "hide the menu
>items" with the new user interface) into PSP8 when I still get a hard
>time any time I try to get print work or publishing done."
>-------
>
>AB wrote:
>"A lot of us are "outsmarted" by 8.
>It's a buggy program released too quickly by a company seeing only
>dollar signs."
>-------
>
>Mike wrote:
>Man...I'm no pro but I'm not an idiot either. PSP has got to be the
>wrost upgrade yet. Simple tasks like just creating some text have
>become a chore.
>If I'd known it would be this bad I would have kept PSP 7. Guess I'll
>have to buy another
>-------
>
>Don/luvgeek wrote:
>Let me preface this by saying that I have been using Paint Shop Pro for
>9 years and have been a long time supporter and fan of the product.
>I have been trying PSP8 and it doesn't seem to be quite ready for prime
>time. There are serious bugs in the UI of the level of when PSP 5 was
>released.
>
>Most notably, important functions are moved around to the point of
>almost qualifying as being hidden. It is so bad that it begs one to
>consider if there was actual malicious intent. To top this off, context
>help items do not link to the appropriate pages (e.g.. help on "Vector
>Properties" takes you to "Formatting Text").
>
>For example, I have been trying for the last hour to do a simple edit on
>a vector layer. There is no "node edit" function. Help says that to edit
>a vector object you need to be in node edit mode. There is no node edit
>mode on the context menu, the layers context menu, or any of the menus.
>There is no mention in the help on how to get into node edit mode.
>
>Speaking of the layers palette, you need to resize the PSP window, drag
>the palette to the location you want, then resize PSP again or it gets
>stuck any time you drag it near the right edge of the PSP window.
>Snapping it to the edge is useless since you loose the layer properties
>when it is attached.
>
>And the default setting with the preview window displayed, slows PSP
>down by a factor of 10 after doing some operations on an image with
>transparent layers. I suspect that this may be the cause of many of the
>speed complaints seen in the newsgroups.
>
>Finally, there is the annoyance that all of these cute new features have
>been added, but proper support for PSD, EPS and other professional file
>formats is still incomplete (or missing).
>-------
>
>Jared wrote:
>"I cleared the TEMP folder on my hard drive,
>but I still end up with this problem.
>
>Does anyone know how I can get PSP8 to stop
>locking up on me when I try to save a JPEG?
>
>If I continue saving everything as a TIFF
>I'll run out of hard drive space soon!"
>-------
>
>AC wrote:
>"I very much need detail advice about a failed re-install of PSP7, and
>have emailed techsup@jasc.com on 3 occasions in the previous 4 weeks,
>but have not heard anything from them, apart from an automated software
>problem/issue number, and a statement that please would I be patient,
>they might be busy."
>--------
>
>Steve T wrote:
>"I have been a PSP user since ver 6 and currently have ver 7.04. I
>downloaded the "trial" version of PSP8 and have nothing but problems. I
>have an Athlon 1.4mhz CPU and 512mb ram and running XP. No anti-virus
>(offline computer), no firewall, no utilities such as Norton's running
>in background and my system froze with 4 PSP file format images open. My
>system was stressed out by this. Unreal! Half the time I try to save a
>file as a .jpg I get an error has occurred while trying to write to
>file. The PSP8 saved files are invalid in PSP7 and cannot be opened. I
>get errors and corruption trying to move files from PSP8 to Jumpdrives
>or ZIP disks. I installed the 8.01 patch. I love PSP7 but this new
>version is a pain in the XXX and dead slow. I have PSP7 on my online
>computer. It is only a 500mhz/384mb ram unit with AV,firewall,etc. and
>it flies through operations that bog down with PSP8. Are others having
>the same problems with simple things as saving files in
>.jpg format? Thanks, Steve T."
>--------
>
>JamesBahn wrote:
>"I've been a PSP user since V3. JASC used to really put out
>bulletproof software, but I've found PSP8 to literally be unusable. I
>can't open files I can open with PSP5 and 7. Forget about the new
>features; I can't open most jpg files. Does JASC even HAVE a QA dept
>anymore? I doubt it. The huge patch wouldn't even install. I have
>to assume that these guys don't even care anymore. And I'd have to
>guess that the old-timers are gone, or they're rich and aren't paying
>attention.
>
>My question is; how can you people even take this stuff seriously?
>It's drek."
>-------
>
>clintonG wrote:
>"Yes, its real slow not to mention all of the other problems with this
>release. I really want to upgrade but there's no way I can justify doing
>so. I'll be waiting awhile to see if Jasc wises up. If not? At some
>point I'll be compelled to consider a competitive product."
>-------
>
>Avonz La'Sonte wrote:
>"Yeah boyee!!!! Yeah I wish I never bought PSP8"
>-------
>
>GTO wrote:
>"Thanks to both replies.
>I submitted bug #1 to JASC. I was also not able to reproduce bug #2 on
>an other system.
>In the meantime, I crashed PSP 8.01 when trying to undo four consecutive
>strokes with the warp-brush.
>I will wait until 8.04 shows up before I delete 7.04. Did JASC add too
>many fancy features to version 8 and finally turn a very stable
>application into a nightmare?"
>-------
>
>Static wrote:
>"Anyone know if there is a limitation in the eval product of PSP 8.0
>(Just downloaded and installed tonight) ... I can not open a JPEG file
>and do a save as - run optimizer. Each time I do, the program stops
>responding.
>I'm running WinXP SP1 ... the image is large 600k.
>I tried v7.x a while ago on Win2k with no issues.
>Thanks for any advice."
>-------
>
>Marte Palmer wrote:
>"I have seen a number of posts identifying this same issue. When
>running PSP8.01, if I try to browse a folder with a large image count,
>the application freezes."
>
>diana replied to Marte:
>"It will have to be a new patch I guess. I have the same problem, lost
>some work several times this past week due to trying to composite images
>using the browser to fetch them. I forget to save before each time I
>need to access the browser and it gets me way too often. It was so
>frequent and frustrating I went back to PSP7 to finish the work."
>--------
>
>Psiborg wrote:
>"Long load times but things also just feel
>sluggish in 8 compared to 7.04. Like many here, I've used PSP since
>it's earliest days and this is the first version I won't be upgrading too."
>--------
>
>Janus wrote:
>"I have a number of usability/crash issues with PSP8, and also a number
>of selections. Since there are so many, I figured it might be wise to
>post a thread here on the forums so more experienced PSP8 users can give
>me tips on some of them, and put in their two cents. I figure once the
>helpful forum users solve half of these issues, I can file a support
>request with Jasc about the ones that are left. Or something. :)"
>--------
>
>Rick Simon wrote:
>"I'm giving 8.1 a pass for now. I don't have the time or inclination for
>more beta testing at this point. As far as the NNTP interface, I've also
>given up on that for now. I've tried numerous times over the last couple
>of days and it's down far more often than it's up. Even when it's up,
>it's slow at best, the message counts are all messed up and I have yet
>to be able to open up the General Discussion newsgroup (the largest
>group). It hangs every time I try to access it. I've been waiting 3
>months for this? Personally, I'm rather disgusted over the whole thing."
>--------
>
>John wrote:
>"So they are shipping an old version and leaving you to download a very
>large update or hang on for this promised replacement!"
>--------
>
>Joe Fromm, from Jasc Software wrote:
>"I won't promise that at 350Mhz will always keep up."
>--------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

quote:

---

> How about removing all comments referring to the beta versions and to
> problems before the current version 8.1 wich is already 5 months old?

---

quote:

---

> How about removing all comments referring to the beta versions and to
> problems before the current version 8.1 wich is already 5 months old?

---

quote:

---

> In message <401394c0.1720012140@news.t-online.de>
> xalinai_Two@xalinai.de (Xalinai) wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Uni is a well-known, longstanding troll over on the psp newsgroup.
> He had to change his email addy so often (because of complaints about his
> trolling and alleged other dubious activities), I found it difficult to keep
> up with KFing him.

---

quote:

---

> version of PSP was compared the the 30-day demo of Photoshop7 which he loved
> so much he didn't buy. Even when I offered to send him a copy of Elements
> for the cost of shipping only (in the hope he would go away, play with his
> new toy and leave the group alone), he declined, despite his alledgedly
> professed love of Photoshop. Of course, he *may* have somehow managed to get
> a copy of PS by now.... If you've got a day or two, you could search the
> google groups archives.....
>
> He has doubtless snipped all the answers to the points he's so cheerfully
> published here.
>
> (You won't draw me into a stupid trolling discussion on this, Uni, I
> just popped into this group to see what was going on, and finding you here,
> I'm unsubscribing again...)
>
> Liz
>

---