Computer Graphics with Photoshop - Epson 1280 color management problem

Author

Epson 1280 color management problem

Vadim Kin

2003-11-24, 10:20 am

The short of it is that when I use profiles from Photoshop, the print comes
out way too red-magenta. I am not talking a subtle color cast, no, it is
way too red.

The problem occurs with a profile I made with Monaco EasyColor, and with the
canned profile I downloaded from the Epson site. Both are for the premium
glossy paper.

I use Photoshop CS on Windows XP Pro SP1. I also tried it with Photoshop 6
on the same system - same results. The same problem occurs with Epson 820,
although Epson does not supply profiles for it, but Ian Lyons seems to think
that the 810 profiles are compatible with the 820.

I use Photoshop to color manage my printing. The procedure is:

1. View - Proof setup - Custom, then choose the printer profile
2. File - Print with preview, then check Show More Options, and on the Color
Management pane set Source Space to Proof, Print Space to "Same As Source"
Profile.
3. Hit Print, select the right printer, then hit Properties
4. In the Properties dialog, select the right paper, then choose "Custom"
mode, and on the Advanced tab set Color Management to "No Color Adjustment".
5. Also check Print Preview checkbox

When the preview window appears, the colors are too red, and that is the way
the image will print. This seems to rule out a hardware problem with the
printer (clogged nozzles, etc.). Besides, the 820 has the same problem.

I realize that I can have the printer driver (and not Photoshop) color
manage my printing (and this does *not* produce the red color cast) but that
precludes me from using my profile, as well as non-Epson papers that require
non-Epson profiles. I also realize that the profile I made with EasyColor
will not get me very far. I intend to have one professionally made, but
want to solve the problem before I pay someone to make a profile for me.

Thanks in advance.

Vadim

Peter Johnson

2003-11-27, 5:41 pm

This looks like a classic case of double profiling.

In print with preview, change the source space to document
and change the print space to the name of the icc profile you are
using.

Make sure again printer is set to no color adjust.

Epson print preview has a bad bug and will never show correct
colors when using no color adjust. It is ok to view the layout, but
the colors will not be right. However, this setup should print
correctly.

pj
=========

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:16:08 GMT, "Vadim Kin" <v.kin@comcast.net>
wrote:

quote:

>The short of it is that when I use profiles from Photoshop, the print comes
>out way too red-magenta. I am not talking a subtle color cast, no, it is
>way too red.
>
>The problem occurs with a profile I made with Monaco EasyColor, and with the
>canned profile I downloaded from the Epson site. Both are for the premium
>glossy paper.
>
>I use Photoshop CS on Windows XP Pro SP1. I also tried it with Photoshop 6
>on the same system - same results. The same problem occurs with Epson 820,
>although Epson does not supply profiles for it, but Ian Lyons seems to think
>that the 810 profiles are compatible with the 820.
>
>I use Photoshop to color manage my printing. The procedure is:
>
>1. View - Proof setup - Custom, then choose the printer profile
>2. File - Print with preview, then check Show More Options, and on the Color
>Management pane set Source Space to Proof, Print Space to "Same As Source"
>Profile.
>3. Hit Print, select the right printer, then hit Properties
>4. In the Properties dialog, select the right paper, then choose "Custom"
>mode, and on the Advanced tab set Color Management to "No Color Adjustment".
>5. Also check Print Preview checkbox
>
>When the preview window appears, the colors are too red, and that is the way
>the image will print. This seems to rule out a hardware problem with the
>printer (clogged nozzles, etc.). Besides, the 820 has the same problem.
>
>I realize that I can have the printer driver (and not Photoshop) color
>manage my printing (and this does *not* produce the red color cast) but that
>precludes me from using my profile, as well as non-Epson papers that require
>non-Epson profiles. I also realize that the profile I made with EasyColor
>will not get me very far. I intend to have one professionally made, but
>want to solve the problem before I pay someone to make a profile for me.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Vadim
>

Johan W. Elzenga

2003-11-27, 5:41 pm

Vadim Kin <v.kin@comcast.net> wrote:

quote:

> The short of it is that when I use profiles from Photoshop, the print comes
> out way too red-magenta. I am not talking a subtle color cast, no, it is
> way too red.
>
> The problem occurs with a profile I made with Monaco EasyColor, and with the
> canned profile I downloaded from the Epson site. Both are for the premium
> glossy paper.
>
> I use Photoshop CS on Windows XP Pro SP1. I also tried it with Photoshop 6
> on the same system - same results. The same problem occurs with Epson 820,
> although Epson does not supply profiles for it, but Ian Lyons seems to think
> that the 810 profiles are compatible with the 820.
>
> I use Photoshop to color manage my printing. The procedure is:
>
> 1. View - Proof setup - Custom, then choose the printer profile
> 2. File - Print with preview, then check Show More Options, and on the Color
> Management pane set Source Space to Proof, Print Space to "Same As Source"
> Profile.
> 3. Hit Print, select the right printer, then hit Properties
> 4. In the Properties dialog, select the right paper, then choose "Custom"
> mode, and on the Advanced tab set Color Management to "No Color Adjustment".
> 5. Also check Print Preview checkbox
>
> When the preview window appears, the colors are too red, and that is the way
> the image will print. This seems to rule out a hardware problem with the
> printer (clogged nozzles, etc.). Besides, the 820 has the same problem.
>
> I realize that I can have the printer driver (and not Photoshop) color
> manage my printing (and this does *not* produce the red color cast) but that
> precludes me from using my profile, as well as non-Epson papers that require
> non-Epson profiles. I also realize that the profile I made with EasyColor
> will not get me very far. I intend to have one professionally made, but
> want to solve the problem before I pay someone to make a profile for me.

You are using the correct setup, and "double profiling" as was suggested
by some one else is certainly NOT your problem. I notice that you use
"Proof setup", but did you ever really LOOKED at the proof before
printing it? It could well be that your proof has that color cast too...
After all, your preview window shows the color cast you say, so actually
what you see is what you get. But if you ignore what you see...

Are you printing a RGB file or a CMYK file?

--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

Derek Fountain

2003-11-27, 5:41 pm

> The short of it is that when I use profiles from Photoshop, the print

quote:

> comes
> out way too red-magenta. I am not talking a subtle color cast, no, it is
> way too red.

I have exactly the same problem with my Epson895. I have had for a year or
more, through PS6 and PS7. Many images print OK, but those where red is in
any way dominant look awful - the red blows out way out of proportion. I
spent hours surfing the net looking for a solution, and wasted loads of
expensive paper and ink. As far as I can tell I'm doing everything right; I
never did figure out where the problem is.

My solution is not to print images where the overloading of red will show. I
recently went on a trip to the "red centre" of Australia (Alice Springs,
Ayers Rock, Kings Canyon, etc.) and took a whole load of photos. I can't
print those images. I actually did print one, and I did so by putting a
curves adjustment layer on top of the finished image. Using trial and error
I dropped the red right down in the curves, then printed a small version to
see how it looked. A dozen or so small sized efforts later I got a full
sized image which looked mostly like what I had on the screen.

I have no idea why this problem persists. If you figure it out make sure you
post the solution to the group!

Vadim Kin

2003-11-27, 5:41 pm

Johan,

I did look at the proof (ctrl-y), and it looked very similar to the original
image. I am printing an RGB file - my working color space is Adobe RGB
1998, and that's the profile the image is tagged with.

Thanks

Vadim

"Johan W. Elzenga" <nomail@please.invalid> wrote in message
news:1g4xzi3.4tlc0s1cdaqniN%nomail@please.invalid...

quote:

> Vadim Kin <v.kin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
comes[QUOTE][color=darkred]
is[QUOTE][color=darkred]
the[QUOTE][color=darkred]
premium[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Photoshop 6[QUOTE][color=darkred]
820,[QUOTE][color=darkred]
think[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Color[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Source"[QUOTE][color=darkred]
"Custom"[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Adjustment".[QUOTE][color=darkred]
way[QUOTE][color=darkred]
the[QUOTE][color=darkred]
that[QUOTE][color=darkred]
require[QUOTE][color=darkred]
EasyColor[QUOTE][color=darkred]
>
> You are using the correct setup, and "double profiling" as was suggested
> by some one else is certainly NOT your problem. I notice that you use
> "Proof setup", but did you ever really LOOKED at the proof before
> printing it? It could well be that your proof has that color cast too...
> After all, your preview window shows the color cast you say, so actually
> what you see is what you get. But if you ignore what you see...
>
> Are you printing a RGB file or a CMYK file?
>
>
> --
> Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
> Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

Vadim Kin

2003-11-27, 5:41 pm

Peter,

The color space changes you are suggesting are meant to make the print more
closely resemble the document, rather than the proof. The difference should
be small, and it is small in my case.

And yes, the printer driver is set for no color adjustment.

Having analyzed what you've said, I noticed that the preview image is
considerably more red than the actual print. I have to confess I did not do
very much actual printing of this image, having seen a couple prints that
are too red I was only looking at the preview in my further experimentation.

Now, about the print that is too red. It is definitely too red when it
comes out of the printer, but then (and I was not aware of it yesterday) it
gets darker and substantially less red, to the point that the print I made
with the canned profile looks pretty good. I suppose this is akin to the
drydown effect that us wet darkroom crazies have known for a long time - a
Cibachrome print comes out of the processor too light and too red, but then
normalizes as it dries.

And about the profile that I made. I don't quite know what to make of that.
I know I put the calibration target into the scanner too soon - now I know I
should have waited for perhaps as long as a day before I did that. But if
it had printed too red, the profile I made should have compensated by
printing images more toward cyan. Well, I'll know in a couple days once I
make a profile with a dry target, and let the print I make with the profile
dry. Of course it may be that EzColor just can't make an acceptable printer
profile for glossy paper, I was never terribly optimistic about that anyway,
just wanted to make sure I know how to use printer profiles before I have a
profile made.

So, thank you for pointing out the bug in the Epson driver, and I'll keep
the group posted.

Vadim
"Peter Johnson" <pj@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:53h4svg46o1p2r8ifel2ffts81efqhhr7f@4ax.com...

quote:

> This looks like a classic case of double profiling.
>
> In print with preview, change the source space to document
> and change the print space to the name of the icc profile you are
> using.
>
> Make sure again printer is set to no color adjust.
>
> Epson print preview has a bad bug and will never show correct
> colors when using no color adjust. It is ok to view the layout, but
> the colors will not be right. However, this setup should print
> correctly.
>
> pj
> =========
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:16:08 GMT, "Vadim Kin" <v.kin@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
comes[QUOTE][color=darkred]
the[QUOTE][color=darkred]
premium[QUOTE][color=darkred]
6[QUOTE][color=darkred]
820,[QUOTE][color=darkred]
think[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Color[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Source"[QUOTE][color=darkred]
Adjustment".[QUOTE][color=darkred]
way[QUOTE][color=darkred]
that[QUOTE][color=darkred]
require[QUOTE][color=darkred]
EasyColor[QUOTE][color=darkred]
>