Webmaster forum - stupid question

Author

stupid question

paul@paulwatt.info

2007-04-24, 6:16 am

Hey Peeps,

I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
(which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
solution, but any pointers in the right direction?

Cheers

Paul

http://www.paulwattdesigns.com

DoobieDo

2007-04-24, 6:16 am

<paul@paulwatt.info> wrote in message
news:1177401661.559648.153640@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Hey Peeps,
>
> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
> (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
> solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
>

replied to your email...

Andy Dingley

2007-04-24, 6:19 pm

On 24 Apr, 09:01, p...@paulwatt.info wrote:

> Any advice on getting more buisness?

What is "your business" ?

Where are the people who want this business?

Go there.

Most of the time my problem with web design has been too much
"business" on offer, and it all being the wrong sort. There's no point
in doing stuff that isn't your particular gig, you either can't make
money off it or you're up against people who do specialise in it and
do it faster / better / cheaper than you can. Pick what you do, do
that, don't do the other stuff.

Whether your market is "Small business catalogue with on-line sales",
"In-house document management for SME" or "Viral marketing video clip"
there's a slot out there for you. Find your trough and stick your
snout firmly into it. Identify your field, identify your market,
identify your target clients, identify whatever value proposition you
have to offer to those people (make sure that your precise offering is
attractive to their precise needs). Then get out there and pro-
actively chase them. This may well cost you money up-front, or at
least non-billable time.

As back-up you'll also need relevant portfolio work. You might even
tailor your target market up or down accordingly: either selling into
fields you don't ideally want, but where you're already seen as
attractive, or trying to win business just because it will bring
future sales in because of it.

There's little point in non-targetted advertising in general. Nor
will hanging out your shingle and waiting for Google to bring them to
your door keep you busy.

Stop chasing work only when you're too busy to cope, not just because
you think there's a target who's going to pay off sometime soon (they
rarely do).

Jerry Stuckle

2007-04-24, 6:19 pm

DoobieDo wrote:
> <paul@paulwatt.info> wrote in message
> news:1177401661.559648.153640@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> replied to your email...
>
>
>

Market, market, market.

First of all, don't do anything for free "just to get going". Charity
work is fine - but it won't get you much (if any) business. Friends
aren't going to do a lot for you, either, if you do it for free. And
places like freelancers.net are great if you're able to work for $10/hr.

First thing to understand is - your time is worth something, and you
should be compensated for it. When you do a site for little or no cost,
that person will consider it worth what they paid for it. It's human
nature.

Now if you charge a reasonable price, some of your friends and charity
work will decide to go elsewhere. But those who do hire you will
appreciate the work more (assuming, of course, it's worth the money - I
haven't seen any of your work so I don't know one way or the other).

But the real question here is - what is your market? Have you defined
it? And if so, what are you doing to make your potential customers
aware of you? Just putting up a website isn't enough.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

NotMe

2007-04-24, 6:19 pm

<paul@paulwatt.info> wrote in message
news:1177401661.559648.153640@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
| Hey Peeps,
|
| I've been struggling to get business, hence I now have a day job
| (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
| business? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
| friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know there's no magic
| solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
|
| Cheers
|
| Paul
|
| http://www.paulwattdesigns.com

A heads up:

Check out www.no-spec.com for some of what you'll run into in the real
world.

check out www.gag.org their handbook is a gold mine especially the sections
of contracts and copyright

Good luck and don't let anyone sell you short ... most importantly don't
sell yourself short.

ALWAYS have a contract or at least a letter of understanding. This is most
critical and never more than with friends and family. On pro bono work I
require a token payment of $1 and a contract. (in many jurisdictions no
'consideration' the $1 there is no enforceable agreement.)

I register, own and hold all copy rights no exceptions. (I am ticked every
time someone wants free work product then proceeds to set the terms all in
their favor at which point I introduce them to the magic word 'NO')

As a matter of self protection (too many request for pro bono work) I will
not take on a pro bono project for a NP or charity unless it is an
organization or cause that I would otherwise donate cash.

This is out of self protection as I have only so many billable hours and it
is quickly eaten up with everyone else's favorite project. (Idea people
will send you on a lot of wild projects)

Chaddy2222

2007-04-25, 6:17 am

On Apr 24, 6:01 pm, p...@paulwatt.info wrote:
> Hey Peeps,
>
> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
> (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
> solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
>
> Cheers
>
I agree with Andy, work out who your target market is. That way you
can have advertising that will in tern get you some web design work.
Also, you need to list some prices on your main site. Place them where
people can find them. That way people know what they are up for. As an
example I could not imagine walking into a shop wanting to by a
product without at least having some idea of how much the product
would cost.
I would want to know that if I wanted changes to the site done, if you
then require my or whoever to pay by the hour, as an example some
designers charge $50 per hour for site updates.
So work out how much you think the work you do is werth and charge
accordingly.
I am personally a bit of a hobbiest with this stuff so I don't mind
doing the non profit stuff for free. I also work on my own personal
website projects as well, but if you want to charge for your services,
place a price list someware on the site and then invite people to
contact you for more info. I hope this helps you out a bit Paul.
Oh and use a proper sig, even in GG.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

Hemanth

2007-04-25, 6:18 pm

advertise what u offer in some local papers
classifieds, yellow pages etc

Alex

2007-04-25, 6:18 pm

"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:FUoXh.216$OR3.114@newsfe04.lga...
> <paul@paulwatt.info> wrote in message
> news:1177401661.559648.153640@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> | Hey Peeps,
> |
> | I've been struggling to get business, hence I now have a day job
> | (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> | business? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> | friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know there's no magic
> | solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
> |
> | Cheers
> |
> | Paul
> |
> | http://www.paulwattdesigns.com
>
>
> A heads up:
>
> Check out www.no-spec.com for some of what you'll run into in the real
> world.
>
> check out www.gag.org their handbook is a gold mine especially the
> sections
> of contracts and copyright
>
> Good luck and don't let anyone sell you short ... most importantly don't
> sell yourself short.
>
> ALWAYS have a contract or at least a letter of understanding. This is
> most
> critical and never more than with friends and family. On pro bono work I
> require a token payment of $1 and a contract. (in many jurisdictions no
> 'consideration' the $1 there is no enforceable agreement.)
>
> I register, own and hold all copy rights no exceptions. (I am ticked every
> time someone wants free work product then proceeds to set the terms all in
> their favor at which point I introduce them to the magic word 'NO')
>
> As a matter of self protection (too many request for pro bono work) I will
> not take on a pro bono project for a NP or charity unless it is an
> organization or cause that I would otherwise donate cash.
>
> This is out of self protection as I have only so many billable hours and
> it
> is quickly eaten up with everyone else's favorite project. (Idea people
> will send you on a lot of wild projects)

The advice given by others, on identifying a target market is excellent. I
buy web services (I'm in PR, so I handle the web presences of several
clients) and "web designers" are available by the busload. What I want, and
what is harder to find but much more valuable, is a web consultant who
delivers expertise, business insight and a solution, not just "design" work.
Essentially I, and my clients, are looking to pay to have their problem
solved. Present yourself as someone who can accomplish that, and you will
differentiate yourself from the kids who know Dreamweaver or have a stack of
templates.

With respect, I differ from "NotMe" on ownership of copyright. Any time I
buy design services (print, online, etc.) I insist that it is "work for
hire," with all intellectual property rights signed over to the client. I'm
fine if the designer wants more money for accepting this. But if he or she
balks, I must take the job elsewhere.

Here's why. In the United States, under federal copyright law and separately
under the "artists' rights" laws of California and other states, allowing
the graphic designer to retain an ownership interest in the work they could
later create enormous legal risks and costs for the client.

For example, the client cannot change the design later without the
permission of the original artist. If he or she says no, or sets an
unreasonable price, or simply cannot be located, the client could be forced
to scrap the entire design and start over. It may sound unlikely, but one of
my clients was indeed held hostage by a petulent artist who would not accept
that his work was outdated.

In addition, it is very common for a web design to incorporate, complement
or otherwise reflect a trademark image. If the graphic designer claims
ownership of his/her work, but the client owns the trademark, the result is
a recipe for litigation.

Finally, few companies have systems in place to track this kind of ongoing
obligation. Who is going to monitor the website and make sure that any
changes made do not trespass on the original designer's rights? An attorney
would be happy to do so several times per year, at $500 per hour. If you
were the client, would that make sense to you?

A company that likes the way its site was designed but wants it updated is
very likely to ask the original designer to handle the job. It's always
easier to go back to a qualified vendor who did good work earlier and who
operates like a business partner rather than a temperamental artist.

Alex

Sam Alex

2007-04-26, 6:19 pm

On 2007-04-24, paul@paulwatt.info <paul@paulwatt.info> wrote:
> Hey Peeps,
>
> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
> (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
> solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
> http://www.paulwattdesigns.com
>

Hi Paul,

What your doing with charity work and so forth is a great way to find other
paying clients. Word of mouth IMO is one of the best ways to advertise your
work.

Another option is getting in with a few local computer shops, not Best Buy
and corporate turds, but rather the smaller mom and pop places. These folks
can get your name out to their customers, and possibly by hosting their site
for free, they'll pass along your card to potential clients.

You can also sponsor local events if you have the cash. Get your name in
the high school sports programs, year books, or even in restaurant menus.
We have a number of restaurants locally who have advertisements in their
menus (which I hate, but it works).

ALso find a nitch market. For example, write a kick XXX real estate site
with CMS and so forth, then find a realtor to host their site for free (or
for a VERY low cost). As other realtors see their site they'll want the
same. This goes for other areas, like restaurants, catering places, and so
forth. If you can design a kick-XXX must have site, others will flock to you.

Just some suggestions --- Now if I myself would only follow these
suggestions :)

Sam

Red E. Kilowatt

2007-04-27, 10:17 pm

paul@paulwatt.info <paul@paulwatt.info> wrote in message:
1177401661.559648.153640@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com,

> Hey Peeps,
>
> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
> (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
> solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul

I don't have the skill, talent or the desire to hang out my shingle as a
web designer, and I learned a long time ago about the many headaches and
pitfalls of doing creative work for other people.

So I've focused on how to make money with my own web sites. My designs
are boring and very few of the sites actually conform to established
standards, but they do get traffic and they do make money. I don't want
to be an expert on web design. I just want to make some money.

When you think about it, the internet is the most fertile ground
possible for starting a successful business. All you need to do is
identify a niche market and a product or service for that market. It's
not easy to come up with really good ideas, but I think it's a lot
easier than trying to make money in a market that's already totally
saturated like web design.

I got in on the ground floor with desktop publishing and made very good
money at it for a few years. I wasn't a skilled designer but I had
mastered the technology. Once it became accessible to everyone, no one
put much value on it any more. Sure, some high-end designers were still
making good money but that left me to either work for peanuts or get
out. So I moved on.

No offense intended Paul, but after looking at your portfolio two things
come to mind; you are much more knowledgeable and talented than me, but
you also have a long way to go before I'd think of you as a very
talented designer. And at this point, the work you are likely to get and
the clients you will likely have to deal with mean that you have a very
tough row to hoe while you continue to improve yourself.

If you have your heart set on having a web design business then by all
means carry on and if you work hard enough at it I'm sure you will make
out very well. I'm just saying that perhaps you should also be thinking
about how you can earn some money from some sites of your own.

I hope I got my point across without sounding like a complete dick. :-)

--
Red

Tom Miller

2007-04-29, 3:17 am

> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job
> (which is why I'm posting from google). Any advice on getting more
> buisness? At the moment I'm doing charity work,sites for
> friends,registered with freelancers.net etc. I know theres no magic
> solution, but any pointers in the right direction?
>
Paul,
Don't know if it will help but take a look at "How to start a home web
design business" by Jim Smith. The 3rd edition is out. He is also at:
http://www.blarneystone.com/index.htm

This book is more about the business of web design than the techniques of
web design.

Another useful book might be "Small Business for Dummies". It is not as
focued as the smith book but it talkes alot about marketing and all the
other topics your clearly interested in. I believe that www.sba.gov also
has free courses in business topics.

--
Tom Miller, Occasional PowerUser (Mcp, Mous, A+) and sometime Web Developer
Wannabe, More at: http://bccs.chatnfiles.com/ecard3.htm, International
Webmasters Assoc: www.iwanet.org, Owner: www.ChatNFiles.com bbs, Home of
770,000+ downloads.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom Miller

2007-04-29, 3:17 am

> I've been struggling to get buisness, hence I now have a day job

Opps almost forgot: www.guru.com and http://www.sitepoint.com/ are places
you can go for work. Check the contest tab at sitepoint. Guru has a free
basic member ship that gives you upto 10 bids a month.

--
Tom Miller, Occasional PowerUser (Mcp, Mous, A+) and sometime Web Developer
Wannabe, More at: http://bccs.chatnfiles.com/ecard3.htm, International
Webmasters Assoc: www.iwanet.org, Owner: www.ChatNFiles.com bbs, Home of
770,000+ downloads.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom Miller

2007-04-29, 3:17 am

> I hope I got my point across without sounding like a complete dick. :-)
>
You got a VERY good point across. Its tough to make a buck in web design
unless your talents connect with a solution that your offering your
customers. Clearly your not a "...complete dick..." just another one of
those practical people that I value this newsgroup for! ;-)

--
Tom Miller, Occasional PowerUser (Mcp, Mous, A+) and sometime Web Developer
Wannabe, More at: http://bccs.chatnfiles.com/ecard3.htm, International
Webmasters Assoc: www.iwanet.org, Owner: www.ChatNFiles.com bbs, Home of
770,000+ downloads.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John Hosking

2007-04-29, 6:17 pm

Tom Miller wrote:
> You got a VERY good point across. Its tough to make a buck in web design
> unless your talents connect with a solution that your offering your
> customers. Clearly your not a "...complete dick..." just another one of
> those practical people that I value this newsgroup for! ;-)

Not related to the topic, but something I'd like to mention ...

Tom, because you don't use attribution lines, I could not tell that you
were not responding directly to Paul's OP, but to Red E. Kilowatt, whose
post hasn't appeared on my news server. It's rather confusing.

Could you please stop deleting the '"Red E. Kilowatt" wrote' line (with
or without the addresses as I don't care about them) from your replies?

Thanks and HAND.
--
John

Red E. Kilowatt

2007-04-29, 6:17 pm

Tom Miller <tlgalenson@yahoo.com> wrote in message:
46341917$0$1468$88260bb3@free.teranews.com,

> You got a VERY good point across. Its tough to make a buck in web
> design unless your talents connect with a solution that your offering
> your customers. Clearly your not a "...complete dick..." just
> another one of those practical people that I value this newsgroup
> for! ;-)

Thanks Tom.

--
Red