Webmaster forum - Recommend anything SHORT to read on SEO ?

Author

Recommend anything SHORT to read on SEO ?

ship

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

Hi

Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
best to do SEO?

A colleague just sent me a white paper from e-Consultancy called "SEO-
best-practice-guide.doc"
but it is *** 210 *** pages long! This is insane. I dont have time to
read anything LIKE that!

What are the most important few points...?

Ship
Shiperton Henethe

Bergamot

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

ship wrote:
>
> Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
> best to do SEO?

http://www.google.com/support/webma...py?answer=35769

--
Berg

Phil Payne

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

> What are the most important few points...?

For true SEO - there aren't any. This is highly logical - if there
were three things you could do to guarantee a page #1 position in the
SERPs, everybody would do them all immediately. So the top 100 would
all be using the same three things - and the one to find the fourth
would then be the winner.

In truth this goes on all the time. Google state - officially - that
over 200 variables influence ranking. Thus a 210 page book is
actually quite thin.

It amazes me. There are _millions_ of sites out there and hundreds of
thousands of webmasters with - between them, perhaps a million years'
experience. All fighting for #1. And people quite seriously think
they can walk in, read ten pages of a manual and do just as well.

You wouldn't dream of stripping a car engine down to its elements,
rebuilding it, and setting off on the Le Mans 24 Hours. You wouldn't
do brain surgery on your own kids.

Yet everyone thinks they can code a well-performing web site in half
an hour.

Mark Goodge

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:35:32 -0700, ship put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>
>Hi
>
>Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
>best to do SEO?
>
>A colleague just sent me a white paper from e-Consultancy called "SEO-
>best-practice-guide.doc"
>but it is *** 210 *** pages long! This is insane. I dont have time to
>read anything LIKE that!
>
>What are the most important few points...?

Forward me the document and I'll summarise it for you. The reply
address on this post works if you replace "usenet" with "jerk".

Mark
--
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"Life is bigger, it's bigger than you"

George L. Sexton

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:35:32 -0700, ship wrote:

> Hi
>
> Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
> best to do SEO?
>
From the site:

http://legendsofseo.blogspot.com/20...ry-16-2006.html

Google is Dancing
Let's watch all datacenters
The sky is falling

Heading, title, links
Got lots of unique content
Why aren't we ranking?

--
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc. - Home of Connect Daily Web Calendar
http://www.mhsoftware.com/connectdaily.htm

Blinky the Shark

2007-10-16, 6:20 pm

George L. Sexton wrote:

> Google is Dancing
> Let's watch all datacenters
> The sky is falling
>
> Heading, title, links
> Got lots of unique content
> Why aren't we ranking?

If you computer gave you haiku error messages:

http://blinkynet.net/comp/haiku.html

--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

On Oct 16, 9:35 am, ship <ship...@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote:

> Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
> best to do SEO?

I am an SEO consultant & I've spent about 2-4 hours EVERY day for the
past DECADE researching how Internet search works. The learning
curves get steeper every day.

If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
"Investment".

It's much easier and more efficient to hire an expert consultant than
to attempt to become an expert yourself.

Brett
http://seowebmarket.com

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

Mark Goodge

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:37:36 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>On Oct 16, 9:35 am, ship <ship...@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
>I am an SEO consultant & I've spent about 2-4 hours EVERY day for the
>past DECADE researching how Internet search works. The learning
>curves get steeper every day.
>
>If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
>will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
>"Investment".
>
>It's much easier and more efficient to hire an expert consultant than
>to attempt to become an expert yourself.

It's not that difficult. Nearly every site that I've worked on is on
the first page of Google results for the most important keywords. Some
of them are the top entry. And I'm not an "SEO consultant" - just an
ordinary web programmer. There's nothing I've done that anyone else
can't do.

Mark
--
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Goodbye... And it's emotional"

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

Mark Goodge wrote:

> And I'm not an "SEO consultant"

Ahh, poor you. You can't charge an extra $50-75 per page then... <lol>

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

On Oct 17, 3:10 pm, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:37:36 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com put finger to

>
>
> It's not that difficult.
> There's nothing I've done that anyone else
> can't do.

The OP doesn't seem interested in investing time

You dwell in a forum, reading everyday & learning new material
constantly while it's happening (he's talking about reading "SHORT"
summaries). You honestly think this guy is going to be able to
compete?

SEO is a long process that involves extensive research on many fronts,
time-tested trial & error, and a lot of time consuming "work".
Website "Optimization" isn't something that happens with the simple
push of an automated button (although many "submit" scams would like
you to believe that).

Steve Sobol

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

On 2007-10-17, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> Website "Optimization" isn't something that happens with the simple
> push of an automated button (although many "submit" scams would like
> you to believe that).

I'll agree 100% with that. But I don't think I agree that SEO is some
black art that only certain people can master.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-17, 10:22 pm

Steve Sobol

2007-10-18, 3:21 am

On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> It's much easier and more efficient to hire an expert consultant than
> to attempt to become an expert yourself.

Didn't you just say this upthread, not too long ago?

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

Mark Goodge

2007-10-18, 3:21 am

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:57:30 GMT, Beauregard T. Shagnasty put finger
to keyboard and typed:

>Mark Goodge wrote:
>
>
>Ahh, poor you. You can't charge an extra $50-75 per page then... <lol>

Maybe I should reword that phrase :-)

Mark
--
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"You surround me like a winter fog, you've come and burned me with a kiss"

Mark Goodge

2007-10-18, 3:21 am

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:28:06 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>On Oct 17, 3:10 pm, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>
>The OP doesn't seem interested in investing time
>
>You dwell in a forum, reading everyday & learning new material
>constantly while it's happening (he's talking about reading "SHORT"
>summaries). You honestly think this guy is going to be able to
>compete?

It doesn't take any time above and beyond what is needed to write good
websites overall. Search visibility is just one off the things that
goes to make up good website design; it isn't an add-on or some
esoteric black art. I'd expect any competant web designer to be aware
of how to make their site work well with the major search engines.

>SEO is a long process that involves extensive research on many fronts,
>time-tested trial & error, and a lot of time consuming "work".

No, it isn't. It's mostly just basic common sense and the application
of some simple principles.

>Website "Optimization" isn't something that happens with the simple
>push of an automated button (although many "submit" scams would like
>you to believe that).

I agree with that, but what most "SEO consultants" tend to sell is
exactly that - instead of offering to help a client learn how to do it
themselves, they offer a service whereby they do it all and just chage
the client for doing so. That's not consultancy, that's just selling
convenience.

To use an analogy, an SEO consultant is a bit like a taxi driver.
There may be times when you want to take a cab, if driving yourself
isn't appropriate or, in that case, possible. If you're rich enough,
you can even employ a full-time driver to take you everywhere. But it
would be a foolish taxi driver who tried to claim that people should
use cabs rather than their own car because learning to drive is too
hard and takes too much time. In the same way, there's often a good
business case for employing a specialist contractor to work on aspects
of website design, especially if you are cash-rich and time-poor or
you need to work in an environment that's outside your normal setting.
But the reason for doing so is speed and convenience, not because the
contractor is doing something that you can't master.

This is particularly the case for SEO, which really is pretty simple,
fundamentally - it doesn't take any special programming skills, or the
ability to master complex software such as Photoshop. It's just about
knowing how search engines, and their users, behave, and desiging
accordingly.

On one major project that I've worked on, we used a freelance designer
to create images for the site, because none of the core team were
particularly good at it. But he didn't brand himself as a "design
consultant" or try to pretend that he was doing anything particularly
esoteric, he just created images for us more quickly and at better
quality than we could do ourselves. One of the things that gives "SEO
consultancy" a bad name is the tendency for its practitioners to
position themselves as the guardians of hidden knowledge that ordinary
mortals cannot comprehend. People can usually smell bullshit, and that
kind of talk absolutely reeks of it.

The people on this group are a mixed bunch, with varied skills -
programming, design, HTML/CSS, SEO, system administration, marketing,
you name it - and we get asked all sorts of different questions by
newcomers to the group. Now, sometimes those responses can be a bit
less than generous, especially if we get the feeling that the
questioner is asking the wrong question, or asking in the wrong way,
or is trying to take advantage of us. But, on the whole, folk here are
usually pretty eager to offer advice to well-meaning enquirers.
Typically, what happens when someone asks a question is that one or
more of these responses are given:

* an example of code or design that will help solve the OP's problem
* a suggestion on where the OP might usefully go to carry our their
own research
* some tips or hints to point them in the right direction
* a suggestion of some software to obtain, either open source
or proprietory, which will suit their needs
* some examples from our own experience to illustrate how we
solved the same problem
* the actual answer - sometimes it really is that simple :-)
* a suggestion that the OP isn't ready for that yet, and needs to
polish other skills first
* a suggestion that the OP should hire a contractor or consultant
to do what he wants

For most people on here, the last answer really is the last - there
are times when paying someone else to do the job is the right
solution, but, on the whole, we try to avoid making that our primary
rcommendation - and we almost always give alternatives to hiring
someone to do, as well. But, on the other hand, SEO consultants almost
always seem to respond with "hire someone to do it for you" as not
only their first answer, but their *only* answer. They never seem to
want to share their own tools and techniques, or want to teach people
how to do it themselves or showm them where to carry out their own
research in how to do it. I think that says a lot about the people who
give such a response.

Mark
--
http://www.BritishSurnames.co.uk - What does your surname say about you?
"Sing for the laughter, sing for the tears"

SpaceGirl

2007-10-18, 6:16 am

On Oct 16, 9:51 pm, Blinky the Shark <no.s...@box.invalid> wrote:

> If you computer gave you haiku error messages:
>
> http://blinkynet.net/comp/haiku.html

LOL some of those are fantastic! :D

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-18, 6:19 pm

Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:28:06 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com put finger to
> keyboard and typed:
>
>
> It doesn't take any time above and beyond what is needed to write good
> websites overall. Search visibility is just one off the things that
> goes to make up good website design; it isn't an add-on or some
> esoteric black art. I'd expect any competant web designer to be aware
> of how to make their site work well with the major search engines.
>
>
> No, it isn't. It's mostly just basic common sense and the application
> of some simple principles.
>
>
> I agree with that, but what most "SEO consultants" tend to sell is
> exactly that - instead of offering to help a client learn how to do it
> themselves, they offer a service whereby they do it all and just chage
> the client for doing so. That's not consultancy, that's just selling
> convenience.
>
> To use an analogy, an SEO consultant is a bit like a taxi driver.
> There may be times when you want to take a cab, if driving yourself
> isn't appropriate or, in that case, possible. If you're rich enough,
> you can even employ a full-time driver to take you everywhere. But it
> would be a foolish taxi driver who tried to claim that people should
> use cabs rather than their own car because learning to drive is too
> hard and takes too much time. In the same way, there's often a good
> business case for employing a specialist contractor to work on aspects
> of website design, especially if you are cash-rich and time-poor or
> you need to work in an environment that's outside your normal setting.
> But the reason for doing so is speed and convenience, not because the
> contractor is doing something that you can't master.
>
> This is particularly the case for SEO, which really is pretty simple,
> fundamentally - it doesn't take any special programming skills, or the
> ability to master complex software such as Photoshop. It's just about
> knowing how search engines, and their users, behave, and desiging
> accordingly.
>
> On one major project that I've worked on, we used a freelance designer
> to create images for the site, because none of the core team were
> particularly good at it. But he didn't brand himself as a "design
> consultant" or try to pretend that he was doing anything particularly
> esoteric, he just created images for us more quickly and at better
> quality than we could do ourselves. One of the things that gives "SEO
> consultancy" a bad name is the tendency for its practitioners to
> position themselves as the guardians of hidden knowledge that ordinary
> mortals cannot comprehend. People can usually smell bullshit, and that
> kind of talk absolutely reeks of it.
>
> The people on this group are a mixed bunch, with varied skills -
> programming, design, HTML/CSS, SEO, system administration, marketing,
> you name it - and we get asked all sorts of different questions by
> newcomers to the group. Now, sometimes those responses can be a bit
> less than generous, especially if we get the feeling that the
> questioner is asking the wrong question, or asking in the wrong way,
> or is trying to take advantage of us. But, on the whole, folk here are
> usually pretty eager to offer advice to well-meaning enquirers.
> Typically, what happens when someone asks a question is that one or
> more of these responses are given:
>
> * an example of code or design that will help solve the OP's problem
> * a suggestion on where the OP might usefully go to carry our their
> own research
> * some tips or hints to point them in the right direction
> * a suggestion of some software to obtain, either open source
> or proprietory, which will suit their needs
> * some examples from our own experience to illustrate how we
> solved the same problem
> * the actual answer - sometimes it really is that simple :-)
> * a suggestion that the OP isn't ready for that yet, and needs to
> polish other skills first
> * a suggestion that the OP should hire a contractor or consultant
> to do what he wants
>
> For most people on here, the last answer really is the last - there
> are times when paying someone else to do the job is the right
> solution, but, on the whole, we try to avoid making that our primary
> rcommendation - and we almost always give alternatives to hiring
> someone to do, as well. But, on the other hand, SEO consultants almost
> always seem to respond with "hire someone to do it for you" as not
> only their first answer, but their *only* answer. They never seem to
> want to share their own tools and techniques, or want to teach people
> how to do it themselves or showm them where to carry out their own
> research in how to do it. I think that says a lot about the people who
> give such a response.
>
> Mark

I agree completely, Mark. And I find it interesting, the only people
who seem to believe it's a "black art" are SEO consultatns themselves.

I've got some sites which rank very high (top 3 or at least 1st page)
for common words which are important to the sites. It's just a matter
of paying attention to the details.

The content is the most important. And while I didn't write the
content, I made suggestions on what they should be saying.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Bergamot

2007-10-18, 6:19 pm

Steve Sobol wrote:
> On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
> Didn't you just say this upthread, not too long ago?

Actually, he said it 3 times. He posted through google groups, but I
guess he couldn't figure out how to use it to find his own postings.
That says something about him and his services, don't it? ;)

--
Berg

Steve Sobol

2007-10-18, 6:19 pm

On 2007-10-18, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

> I agree completely, Mark. And I find it interesting, the only people
> who seem to believe it's a "black art" are SEO consultatns themselves.

Right. And I'm not above hiring someone; my mother is putting her brick-
and-mortar store online and I referred her to a gentleman I used to work
with who does SEO. But he's not one of the "I know everything, you must
know the secrets to be able to really do SEO" bullshit artists. He knows
his stuff, but he doesn't have the attitude. If he had the attitude, I'd
not have referred my own mother to him.

SEOWebmasterDude (the guy who always posts here) IS one of those bullshit
artists. I assume he insists that only pros can do SEO because he's trying
to protect his revenue stream.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-18, 10:28 pm

Steve Sobol wrote:
> On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
> Of course I don't; I can only go by your persona here on the newsgroups.
>
>
> We've had this discussion before. You sound like a sanctimonious XXXXXXX
> who is only interested in trolling for clients -- EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT.
>
> Your posts make it sound like SEO "professionals" are the only people who
> can possibly do a good job with SEO -- EVEN IF THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU MEAN.
>
> Do you read your posts before submitting them? I do, with mine. And often
> I'll reply with a heated answer, look at it, decide it's too much and post
> something less inflammatory.
>
> Are you an arrogant jerk? Quite possibly not. Do you come across as one
> in this newsgroup? Almost always. At least to me. And judging by others'
> responses, to some of them too...
>
>

No, Steve, he's an arrogant jerk...

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Steve Sobol

2007-10-18, 10:28 pm

On 2007-10-18, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

>
> No, Steve, he's an arrogant jerk...

Oh, okay then, works for me :)

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-18, 10:28 pm

On Oct 18, 5:07 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webm...@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>
> We've had this discussion before. You sound like a sanctimonious XXXXXXX
> who is only interested in trolling for clients -- EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT.
>
> Your posts make it sound like SEO "professionals" are the only people who
> can possibly do a good job with SEO -- EVEN IF THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU MEAN.

That is absurdly ridiculous; you're an evil troll. You know damn well
that your evil trollish translation is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what I
actually wrote. You are "projecting" a stereotype upon someone that
you know nothing about - and then you proceed to attack YOUR OWN
OPINION & ASSUMPTIONS like a damn fool.

Rethink your jealous idiocracy, you trollish LYING COWARD steve
sobol. Then, get back under the bridge where you belong.

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-18, 10:28 pm

Steve Sobol wrote:
> On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
> Of course I don't; I can only go by your persona here on the newsgroups.
>
>
> We've had this discussion before. You sound like a sanctimonious XXXXXXX
> who is only interested in trolling for clients -- EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT.
>
> Your posts make it sound like SEO "professionals" are the only people who
> can possibly do a good job with SEO -- EVEN IF THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU MEAN.
>
> Do you read your posts before submitting them? I do, with mine. And often
> I'll reply with a heated answer, look at it, decide it's too much and post
> something less inflammatory.
>
> Are you an arrogant jerk? Quite possibly not. Do you come across as one
> in this newsgroup? Almost always. At least to me. And judging by others'
> responses, to some of them too...
>
>

Steve,

I rest my case.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Steve Sobol

2007-10-19, 3:34 am

On 2007-10-19, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> That is absurdly ridiculous; you're an evil troll. You know damn well
> that your evil trollish translation is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what I
> actually wrote. You are "projecting" a stereotype upon someone that
> you know nothing about - and then you proceed to attack YOUR OWN
> OPINION & ASSUMPTIONS like a damn fool.

> Rethink your jealous idiocracy, you trollish LYING COWARD steve
> sobol. Then, get back under the bridge where you belong.

Idiocracy? That's government by a group of morons, right?

You mean IDIOCY, right?

You really ought to learn the language if you're going to try to use it.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 3:34 am

On Oct 18, 9:44 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:

> Idiocracy? That's government by a group of morons, right?

It's a 2006 movie; you were the president.

> You really ought to learn the language if you're going to try to use it.

You would probably "assume" your own name if it hadn't been given to
you at birth.

Hablo Espa=F1ol fluido, tambi=E9n. Debajo del puente, troll.

http://onesmallbusiness.com/one-sma...opywriting-ser=
vice.htm

Steve Sobol

2007-10-19, 3:34 am

On 2007-10-19, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> You would probably "assume" your own name if it hadn't been given to
> you at birth.

Then I'd be posting under an "assumed" name, huh? <snicker>

Free clue, SEOWebDude: just because a word is used as a movie title doesn't
mean it's a real word.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 3:34 am

On Oct 18, 11:24 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:

> Free clue, SEOWebDude: just because a word is used as a movie title doesn't
> mean it's a real word.

Ignorant bullies like you make me sick. Grow up. You are pathetic.

Go find something productive to do (i.e. a job, a date).

BACK UNDER THE BRIDGE, TROLL !! *SWAT*

Mark Goodge

2007-10-19, 3:34 am

On 18 Oct 2007 13:48:07 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com put finger to keyboard
and typed:
>
>I simply pointed out that SEO IS a lot of work

So you keep saying. But my experience, and that of many other people,
is that it isn't. Maybe the reason you find it so difficult is because
you're not really that good at it?

Mark
--
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"I know I can be afraid but I'm alive"

Secret Agent X

2007-10-19, 6:17 am

"SEOwebMarket.com" <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>I simply pointed out that SEO IS a lot of work and that if the OP is
>interested in taking short cuts, "he would be selling himself SHORT".

I disagree.

SEO is complete bollocks that misses the point - the point being
providing what the readers want, not tricking search engines into
thinking your site is what the readers want.

If a page can be read with a text-only web browser, then it can (very
probably) be indexed by a search engine spider.

If a page is written in a simple, straightforward, unambiguous manner
and conveys the data the reader expects (don't forget appropriate
headings, titles and the like which help readers comprehend the text),
then it will satisfy the reader's demand, and also be indexed
accordingly by a search engine spider (watch out for spelling mistakes
and typo errors, though).

The "magic" of SEO is purely limited to misleading.

X

Secret Agent X

2007-10-19, 6:17 am

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>On 2007-10-19, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Idiocracy? That's government by a group of morons, right?
>
>You mean IDIOCY, right?
>
>You really ought to learn the language if you're going to try to use it.
>

This does highlight an issue of SEO. While a human reader may
understand what was meant, despite the error, a search engine robot
probably will not. And as such may index a page with such an error in
a non-predicted manner - for example about "government" rather than
"intelligence".

It is not controversial to realise that correct spelling and the
correct choice of words makes a text easier to read and understand by
a human, it does not require a leap of faith to suggest that the same
may also be true of a search engine robot.

X

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-19, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 18, 11:24 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ignorant bullies like you make me sick. Grow up. You are pathetic.
>
> Go find something productive to do (i.e. a job, a date).
>
> BACK UNDER THE BRIDGE, TROLL !! *SWAT*
>
>

Arrogant assholes like you make me sick.

Just go away. This newsgroup is for people with a modicum of intelligence.

And BTW - if you'd learn how to do your job right, you wouldn't have to
spend hours a day studying. That's a cheap cop-out.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Bergamot

2007-10-19, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
>
> Ignorant bullies like you make me sick. Grow up. You are pathetic.

Grow up...? Perhaps you should take your own advice.
:)

--
Berg

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 6:18 pm

On Oct 19, 4:13 am, (Secret Agent X) wrote:
> "SEOwebMarket.com" <webm...@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
> I disagree.
>
> SEO is complete bollocks that misses the point - the point being
> providing what the readers want, not tricking search engines into
> thinking your site is what the readers want.

Who is missing the point?

What if your page IS what the readers want - but they cannot FIND you
because you only invested a "short" time making sure that they could?
The time invested in a web site is wasted if you have no audience. I
ONLY work for good guys who DO have QUALITY UNIQUE products/services
that are OF USE to others (preferably local small business owners and
entrepreneurs).

Besides, how much money can one expect to make with a 100% bounce
rate? ROI comes from RELEVANT KEYWORDS that ARE what the consumer
demands. You are confusing SEO with "CONVERSION optimization", which
works hand-in-hand with SEO to provide ROI from your marketing
investment.

> The "magic" of SEO is purely limited to misleading.

I said "WORK" & "TIME".

"magic" is YOUR word, not a service that I offer.

http://seowebmarket.com/about-seo.shtml

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 6:18 pm

On Oct 19, 6:41 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

> Just go away. This newsgroup is for people with a modicum of intelligence.

LOL. You must be thinking of alt.amateur.webmaster

I already noticed YOUR "modicum of intelligence" as well as YOUR
"modicum" of ethics and manners, troll. Shame on you.

In my field, one MUST keep up with modern technology. The best way is
to subscribe to newsgroups - so when technology changes, I am the
first to know and I can better advise my clients.

I WILL be here (in addition to many other newsgroups). I WILL answer
questions when I have valuable information to share (ONLY when the OP
is a genuine good guy with a QUALITY legitimate business). I WILL NOT
be swayed by childish trolls that think it's funny to make up lies
about others so they have an outlet for their "daily rants" (otherwise
know as "bitching" which would make you a "XXXXX"). And I WILL put
you trolls in your place when you step out of line. GET USED TO IT.

Even if you only have a "modicum of intelligence", you should realize
that you might actually be able to learn something from me if you'd
stop throwing rocks like an uneducated herd of cavemen. I'm a good
guy, but I WILL NOT tolerate "losenet" trolls that give a bad name to
a very useful educational tool.

BTW - whoever bamboozled (movie & a word) you all into thinking that
any monkey can get #1 ranks in SERPS with a "modicum of intelligence"
combined with a "modicum" of work? SEO is just like any other
business: the more you invest (time), the more ROI you will get in
return (=money). The keywords that make MONEY are highly competitive
and you really do have to be BETTER than your competition to attain
these coveted ranks. Black hat SERPS (& sites) dissolve when the
algorithm is updated.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, bite off your tongue."

Brett (troll assassin)
http://onesmallbusiness.com
http://seowebmarket.com

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-19, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 19, 6:41 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> LOL. You must be thinking of alt.amateur.webmaster
>

That's exactly where you belong.

> I already noticed YOUR "modicum of intelligence" as well as YOUR
> "modicum" of ethics and manners, troll. Shame on you.
>

Well, obviously you have neither ethics nor manners, stoopid.

> In my field, one MUST keep up with modern technology. The best way is
> to subscribe to newsgroups - so when technology changes, I am the
> first to know and I can better advise my clients.
>

Yea, right. At least it's a good line to feed your suckers - I mean
"customers". But it doesn't work here. We know how to make pages work
right.

> I WILL be here (in addition to many other newsgroups). I WILL answer
> questions when I have valuable information to share (ONLY when the OP
> is a genuine good guy with a QUALITY legitimate business). I WILL NOT
> be swayed by childish trolls that think it's funny to make up lies
> about others so they have an outlet for their "daily rants" (otherwise
> know as "bitching" which would make you a "XXXXX"). And I WILL put
> you trolls in your place when you step out of line. GET USED TO IT.
>

Yea, trolls never go away. But as for valuable information? I have yet
to see any out of you. However, yes, you will be here, unfortunately.
Stoopid trolls like you are the bane of unmoderated newsgroups.

> Even if you only have a "modicum of intelligence", you should realize
> that you might actually be able to learn something from me if you'd
> stop throwing rocks like an uneducated herd of cavemen. I'm a good
> guy, but I WILL NOT tolerate "losenet" trolls that give a bad name to
> a very useful educational tool.
>

I'm a hell of a lot more intelligent than you, troll. And at least I'm
ethical in my operations. I don't try to snow my customers like you do.

> BTW - whoever bamboozled (movie & a word) you all into thinking that
> any monkey can get #1 ranks in SERPS with a "modicum of intelligence"
> combined with a "modicum" of work? SEO is just like any other
> business: the more you invest (time), the more ROI you will get in
> return (=money). The keywords that make MONEY are highly competitive
> and you really do have to be BETTER than your competition to attain
> these coveted ranks. Black hat SERPS (& sites) dissolve when the
> algorithm is updated.
>

Within reason, yes. That's true of ANYTHING - except dishwasher,
perhaps. But then you'd have to study for a urine test.

> "If you don't have anything nice to say, bite off your tongue."
>
> Brett (troll assassin)
> http://onesmallbusiness.com
> http://seowebmarket.com
>
>

And if you don't have anything intelligent to say, bite off your tongue.
Then we wouldn't have to put up with you.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

On Oct 19, 5:14 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

> I'm a hell of a lot more intelligent than you, troll.

Fools make absurd assumptions about that which they do not understand.

> And at least I'm
> ethical in my operations.

Is it ethical to insult someone you know nothing about?

http://seowebmarket.com/ethical-organic-seo.shtml

> I don't try to snow my customers like you do.

Do you know any of "my customers"? Can you cite any evidence that I
"try to snow my customers"? Or are you simply a LYING COWARD who
enjoys BULLYING people in a chat room by slandering them with absurd
false accusations?

You are quick to assume, accuse and judge me.

Do you realize you are doing this based on YOUR stereotype, rather
than on who I really am or WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

You are quick to slander, but you have nothing more than YOUR OWN
projection to attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Only a TROLL would attack me for offering the following advice:

[If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
"Investment". ]

Only a TROLL would hijack the thread of someone asking for help, and
proceed to attack those who offer advice with brutal LIES, slander,
and his (classic troll) "daily rant".
[color=darkred]

Steve Sobol

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

On 2007-10-19, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> Is it ethical to insult someone you know nothing about?

Like you insulting Jerry and I?

You don't know jack shit about me, bud.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

Steve Sobol wrote:

> SEO wrote:
>
> Like you insulting Jerry and I?
>
> You don't know jack shit about me, bud.

http://k75s.home.att.net/show/jack.jpg !!!

Seo seems .. um .. angry. No sense of humor at all, eh?

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 19, 5:14 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Fools make absurd assumptions about that which they do not understand.
>

And intelligent people make reasonable conclusions based on available
information. Such is the case here.

>
> Is it ethical to insult someone you know nothing about?
>

I know enough about you from your posts here, troll.

> http://seowebmarket.com/ethical-organic-seo.shtml
>

If you knew what ethical business practices were, you wouldn't be
snowing your customers.

>
> Do you know any of "my customers"? Can you cite any evidence that I
> "try to snow my customers"? Or are you simply a LYING COWARD who
> enjoys BULLYING people in a chat room by slandering them with absurd
> false accusations?
>

No, I'm just going by what you claim here. If you tell the customers
the same bullshit, you're snowing them.

> You are quick to assume, accuse and judge me.
>

Just by the shit you post here.

> Do you realize you are doing this based on YOUR stereotype, rather
> than on who I really am or WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE?
>

Nope, I'm making my comments based on WHAT YOU WRITE.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
>
> You are quick to slander, but you have nothing more than YOUR OWN
> projection to attack.
>

You're write. Calling you an XXXXXXX is slander to assholes everywhere.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
>
> Only a TROLL would attack me for offering the following advice:
>
> [If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
> will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
> "Investment". ]
>

That's not ALL you wrote, troll. But like any troll, you take one
little bit out of context to try to make your case. Stoopid.

> Only a TROLL would hijack the thread of someone asking for help, and
> proceed to attack those who offer advice with brutal LIES, slander,
> and his (classic troll) "daily rant".
>

And only someone with intelligence and knowledge will respond to
bullshit and call it exactly what it is.

And you're so quick to call it slander - sue me. The courts will laugh
in your face - if you can find an attorney to take your case. An honest
one wont - but you'll probably find someone with your sense of ethics -
and lose your XXX. Which would server you right.

>
>

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

On Oct 19, 7:36 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

> If you knew what ethical business practices were, you wouldn't be
> snowing your customers.

>
>
> No, I'm just going by what you claim here.

That it cost an investment to get improved returns??? That's been
standard in business marketing for centuries.

> If you tell the customers
> the same bullshit, you're snowing them.

IF (you assume) ???

You don't know do you? So YOU LIED to make me look bad?

Jerry Stuckle is a LIAR & a COWARD !!!

You mean the part when YOU CLAIMED that I was "insisting SEO is
magic" (although I never said anything of the sort) ???

Where is the snow, frosty?

*IF* I had done or said anything even remotely deceitful, you would be
the first troll to come running out from under the bridge waving a
flag with my QUOTE on it. You have no QUOTE other than YOUR OWN LIES
to attack.

FILTHY LYING TROLL.

George L. Sexton

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:15:35 +0000, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
> Well, that could just be because it's a woman.

Or a transsexual.

George L. Sexton

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:32:55 -0700, SEOwebMarket.com wrote:

> On Oct 19, 7:36 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> That it cost an investment to get improved returns??? That's been
> standard in business marketing for centuries.
>
>
> IF (you assume) ???
>
> You don't know do you? So YOU LIED to make me look bad?
>
> Jerry Stuckle is a LIAR & a COWARD !!!
>
> You mean the part when YOU CLAIMED that I was "insisting SEO is
> magic" (although I never said anything of the sort) ???
>
> Where is the snow, frosty?
>
> *IF* I had done or said anything even remotely deceitful, you would be
> the first troll to come running out from under the bridge waving a
> flag with my QUOTE on it. You have no QUOTE other than YOUR OWN LIES
> to attack.
>
> FILTHY LYING TROLL.

Not to take sides here, but do you think that if any potential customer
searched for your name, and found these threads that he would still be
interested in hiring you? You're not giving a great impression here. Sorry.

Maybe you should just let this thread expire...

--
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc. - Home of Connect Daily Web Calendar
http://www.mhsoftware.com/connectdaily.htm

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-19, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 19, 7:36 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> That it cost an investment to get improved returns??? That's been
> standard in business marketing for centuries.
>
>
> IF (you assume) ???
>
> You don't know do you? So YOU LIED to make me look bad?
>
> Jerry Stuckle is a LIAR & a COWARD !!!
>
> You mean the part when YOU CLAIMED that I was "insisting SEO is
> magic" (although I never said anything of the sort) ???
>
> Where is the snow, frosty?
>
> *IF* I had done or said anything even remotely deceitful, you would be
> the first troll to come running out from under the bridge waving a
> flag with my QUOTE on it. You have no QUOTE other than YOUR OWN LIES
> to attack.
>
> FILTHY LYING TROLL.
>
>

Stoopid troll. Can't even remember what you've written, can you?

ROFLMAO.

You're a sorry case. But then there's always a sucker who will buy your
services. But hopefully one of these days someone will sue your poor
XXX for fraud.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 3:18 am

On Oct 19, 8:48 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

[color=darkred]
>
>
> Can't even remember what you've written, can you?

That's exactly what I figured, coward. Lies and deceit will get you
nowhere.

> Can any of you guys recommend anything SHORT to read that tells us how
> best to do SEO?

I am an SEO consultant & I've spent about 2-4 hours EVERY day for the
past DECADE researching how Internet search works. The learning
curves get steeper every day.

If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
"Investment".

It's much easier and more efficient to hire an expert consultant than
to attempt to become an expert yourself.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....176256522456ba8

If I catch you bullying people in this forum again, I will stomp you
again and again until you learn how to act right.

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 3:18 am

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 19, 8:48 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> That's exactly what I figured, coward. Lies and deceit will get you
> nowhere.
>
>
> I am an SEO consultant & I've spent about 2-4 hours EVERY day for the
> past DECADE researching how Internet search works. The learning
> curves get steeper every day.
>

ROFLMAO! And you still haven't learned how to do it right, have you?

I do virtually NO studying. And I have several customers who show up on
the first page of a Google search for the important words.

It's not rocket science. Buy it's obviously beyond your capacity for
learning. Or you wouldn't have to screw off for 2-4 hours per day
claiming you're "studying".

> If you want to "optimize" your site by reading "short" summaries, you
> will only be "selling yourself SHORT". Remember, ROI is based on
> "Investment".
>

To a certain point, yes. But it is also the law of diminishing returns.
But you're too stoopid to understand that, also.

What counts is not how much you sit there playing with yourself. What
counts is results. And I produce results.

> It's much easier and more efficient to hire an expert consultant than
> to attempt to become an expert yourself.
>

Yep. That's why people hire me.

> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....176256522456ba8
>
> If I catch you bullying people in this forum again, I will stomp you
> again and again until you learn how to act right.
>
>

ROFLMAO! You couldn't stomp an ant. You're just a stoopid XXXXer.

And I'll be tickled pink to see how many of your "customers" find your
shit in this and other newsgroups. Makes you look really good.

One thing I have learned. "SEO Consultants" have to sell smoke and
mirrors. Because they can't do any better than professional webmasters
who understand how to build a site.

But then that's also not surprising. You and the rest of you are too
stoopid to be webmasters, so you have to call yourselves something!

And you aren't smacking me down. You're just showing what an arrogant
jerk and stoopid troll you are.

And you can't stand that someone knows you're a flim-flam artist and is
calling you on it!

Oh, and BTW - I hear your mommy calling. Better go see what she wants!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 6:15 am

On Oct 19, 10:49 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

> I do virtually NO studying.

Since 2nd grade Grammar, right? Is that how you managed to cram 50
grammar errors into a single post?

> Yep. That's why people hire me.

So you basically AGREE with my ORIGINAL (yeah, I tricked you) post
while attacking me for posting it? If you weren't so hot-headed, you
could have thought about it FIRST (before you attacked me).

> One thing I have learned.

Congratulations. It's about time.

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 19, 10:49 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Since 2nd grade Grammar, right? Is that how you managed to cram 50
> grammar errors into a single post?
>
>
> So you basically AGREE with my ORIGINAL (yeah, I tricked you) post
> while attacking me for posting it? If you weren't so hot-headed, you
> could have thought about it FIRST (before you attacked me).
>
>
> Congratulations. It's about time.
>
>

Gawd what a stoopid idiot. You can't even understand plain English.

And just like any troll, you take things out of context and try to wrap
them to what you want them to say. Just like a XXXXing troll.

No wonder you have to study 2-4 hours per day. Here's something for you
to study - hope it isn't too advanced for you.

See Spot Run.
See Spot Play.
See Brett Syverson screw his customers.
See webmaster@iasarttoday.com get spam.

Whoa... don't even have an email address at your own domain?

Hmmm, and there is no web site at iasarttoday.com. I guess you're so
good at what you do people don't even need a website!

And let's see what other "quality" work you do. Your own home page has
a Google page rank of 2. Hell, I can get a 4 just by putting a page up
- no "optimization" needed. And when googling for "Search Engine
Optimization", it doesn't show up in the first 100 pages.

Now we know just how good you are, troll. You'd better go back to
washing dishes. You sure aren't any good at SEO.

Besides which you're an arrogant jerk.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Doug Baiter

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:17:35 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>Besides which you're an arrogant jerk.

So says the expert in being an arrogant jerk :o)

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

Doug Baiter wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:17:35 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> So says the expert in being an arrogant jerk :o)
>

XXXX off, troll.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Doug Baiter

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:36:06 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

>Doug Baiter wrote:
>
>xxxx off, troll.

QED :o)

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

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Doug Baiter wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:36:06 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> QED :o)
>
>

Agreed. It provs you ARE a troll.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

On Oct 20, 8:17 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

> See Brett screw his customers.

Jerry Stuckle is a LYING & DECEPTIVE TROLL. You're attempt to slander
me is worthless because your LIES are only rooted in your own
imagination. You know none of my clients, you don't know me, and you
know nothing about my businesses.

I challenge you to find a single HTML code error, spelling/grammatical
error, lie, scam, or even the slightest hint of deception ANYWHERE in
my work.

Then, after you've realized that my reputation is immaculate - you can
work on YOURS, fairy boy.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle

> See webmas...@arttoday.com get spam.

Now you are threatening to SPAM me, troll?????

Are you still in the 2nd grade?

Steve Sobol

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

On 2007-10-20, Doug Baiter <doug-baiter@no.where> wrote:

>
> QED :o)

Hey, look. It's a Brett sockpuppet. Shouldn't his first name be Master?

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 20, 8:17 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jerry Stuckle is a LYING & DECEPTIVE TROLL. You're attempt to slander
> me is worthless because your LIES are only rooted in your own
> imagination. You know none of my clients, you don't know me, and you
> know nothing about my businesses.
>
> I challenge you to find a single HTML code error, spelling/grammatical
> error, lie, scam, or even the slightest hint of deception ANYWHERE in
> my work.
>
> Then, after you've realized that my reputation is immaculate - you can
> work on YOURS, fairy boy.
>

I don't need to find any HTML or other errors in your code. You don't
claim to be a website designer, an English expert or the like.

Rather, you claim you are an SEO expert. So your own website should be
an example of your work. It has a Google page rank of 2. It can't be
find in the first 100 pages (that's 1,000 hits) in a Google search for
"Search Engine Optimization".

That shows just the "quality" of the work you do. And how "Expert" you
are. I don't have a single site with a PR of 2, especially on the home
page. Even a half-assed webmaster can get a PR of 4, and good ones can
easily get a PR of 6.

But that's typical of scam artists like you.

>
> Now you are threatening to SPAM me, troll?????
>

Nope, I don't spam. Unlike you.

For instance, you have NEVER seen an add by me in this newsgroup, or
even a serious offer of services. I have made some joking comments, though.

> Are you still in the 2nd grade?
>

No, I passed you a long time ago, Brett.

But we've got your number. And with any luck, people will search usenet
and see not only the crap you put out in this and other threads, but how
you treat people who call you what you are.

Your behavior is a perfect example of trolling - the last refuge of the
incompetent.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Red E. Kilowatt

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message:
slrnfhfncl.e2u.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net,

> On 2007-10-18, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
> Of course I don't; I can only go by your persona here on the
> newsgroups.
>
>
> We've had this discussion before. You sound like a sanctimonious
> XXXXXXX who is only interested in trolling for clients -- EVEN IF YOU
> ARE NOT.

He's not going to drum up much business from here the way he's carrying
on.

--
Red

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

On Oct 20, 4:31 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

>
>

LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle
[color=darkred]
> I don't need to find any HTML or other errors in your code.

CORRECTION: You cannot, because there isn't.

YOU LIED, COWARD.

> You don't
> claim to be a website designer,

http://seowebmarket.com/web-site-services.shtml

> an English expert or the like.

http://onesmallbusiness.com/one-sma...ing-service.htm
[color=darkred]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:

> I challenge you to find a single HTML code error, spelling/grammatical
> error, lie, scam, or even the slightest hint of deception ANYWHERE in
> my work.

It's pretty easy to validate HTML 4.01 Transitional. Why aren't your
pages Strict?

BTW, I love the purple background at iasart.com ... and points
(font-size: 14pt) are for printing.

Ok, what do I win?
<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...s%2Findex.shtml>

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 20, 4:31 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle
>

Hey, what Matthew Moulton, known troll says about me means nothing. And
the fact that you do the same means you're worth even less than he is.

If I cared, he'd be in court right now. But I don't.

Stoopid troll.

>
> CORRECTION: You cannot, because there isn't.
>
> YOU LIED, COWARD.
>

And exactly where did I lie, troll? I have no need to find any HTML or
spelling/grammar errors in your code to prove you're worthless. Because
you don't claim to be an "expert" in those areas.

Now if you did claim to be an expert in those areas, then that would be
telling.

>
> http://seowebmarket.com/web-site-services.shtml
>
>
> http://onesmallbusiness.com/one-sma...ing-service.htm
>
>
>

Yep, who did you get to proof them for you? Or did you finally learn
how to use the w3 validator and a spell checker?

But your website isn't website_designer or copywriter dot com, is it?
No, it's SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION ... And you have repeatedly claimed
that you are an expert in SEO here in this newsgroup.

But that's OK. You can snow others. But you can't snow us. Stoopid
troll and scammer.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 6:18 pm

Red E. Kilowatt wrote:
> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message:
> slrnfhfncl.e2u.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net,
>
>
>
> He's not going to drum up much business from here the way he's carrying
> on.
>

Nope, and hopefully others will find his posts in here and see just what
he really is.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:

> http://onesmallbusiness.com/one-sma...ing-service.htm

I win AGAIN!!!

<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...ing-service.htm>
This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Transitional!
Result: Failed validation, 2 Errors

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Doug Baiter

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:55:52 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

>Doug Baiter wrote:
>
>Agreed. It provs you ARE a troll.

Yawn. Theres none so blind as them that will not see...
Jerry, you're a confrontational moron. Its unfortunate that you cant
see that, but it doesn't make it any the less true. Nevertheless, its
still fun to watch you caution the OP about his name now being allied
forever with posts that might not show him in a good light, while
doing exactly the same thing yourself. Now, you feel free to post
whatever dribble you like in response, since its probably beyond your
grasp that all you're doing is proving what an odious choice of
business partner you would prove to be.

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Oct 20, 5:02 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:

> It's pretty easy to validate HTML 4.01 Transitional. Why aren't your
> pages Strict?

I don't consider that to be a standard yet.

> BTW, I love the purple background at iasart.com

I've heard that before, which os/browser?

> (font-size: 14pt) are for printing.

pt & px are interchangable now that printing presses don't need the
metal characters anymore (I've used them in a bindery). I use
whichever makes my margins look best. I learned page layout with
Quark & InDesign before I ever used Dreamweaver.

> Ok, what do I win?
> <http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...iasart.com%2...>

Well, those aren't MY errors - that was Yahoo's bablelfish code. I've
fixed it before.

Send me your URL, Shag. I'll make it worth your time.

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Oct 20, 5:07 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:

LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle

> Hey, what Matthew Moulton, known troll says about me means nothing.

Unless you put it in context with what others have to say about you.

"Lack of Professionalism"

"Jerry Stuckle - Fat, Old, Talentless, Unproducing and Stupid"

"Jerry Stuckle = JERRY THE FAIRY"

"Jerry Stuckle Still Sucks My ..."

"That way anyone in the future who runs a search on the name "Jerry
Stuckle" is gonna find all sorts of nasty things attributed to
his ..."

I don't know much about gay guys, but the rest seems pretty accurate
based on how you act. I figure they praise you because you are such a
*respectable* guy.

LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Oct 20, 5:19 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalid> wrote:
> SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
>
> I win AGAIN!!!
>
> <http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...onesmallbusi...>
> This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Transitional!
> Result: Failed validation, 2 Errors

Again, not my code. But I'll fix it. Those errors look like they're
in the Acrobat ad (written by the current developers of dreamweaver -
shame).

Goes to show my confidence in my coding that I didn't even bother to
validate the URLs I posted, heh.

& yes, YOU WON, Shag ! AGAIN.

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:

> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>
> I don't consider that to be a standard yet.

Hey Seo, this is the 21st century. HTML 4.01 Strict has been around for
years.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

>
> I've heard that before, which os/browser?

Doesn't matter which. Nearly all browsers have the capability to set
colors, including background colors. Mine is set to purple. That way I
can see when you authors make misteaks.

You forgot to assign a background color on the body { }

>
> pt & px are interchangable now that printing presses don't need the
> metal characters anymore (I've used them in a bindery).

...but .. points are not for *screen*. The browser is not paper.

> I use whichever makes my margins look best. I learned page layout
> with Quark & InDesign before I ever used Dreamweaver.

See this:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

>
> Well, those aren't MY errors

They are on your page ... and you challenged us.

>- that was Yahoo's bablelfish code. I've fixed it before.

Looks like your page code to me:
<td class="centered"><script language="JavaScript1.2"
..............................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

<script language="JavaScript1.2"> was replaced by
<script type="text/javascript"> eons ago.

> Send me your URL, Shag. I'll make it worth your time.

No thanks...

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Oct 20, 5:34 pm, Doug Baiter <doug-bai...@no.where> wrote:

> Yawn. Theres none so blind as them that will not see...
> Jerry, you're a confrontational moron.

> still fun to watch you caution the OP about his name now being allied
> forever with posts that might not show him in a good light, while
> doing exactly the same thing yourself.

I'm not the OP; the OP is probably reading his 200 page report.

Jerry hijacked this thread to attack me after I OFFERED LEGITIMATE ON-
TOPIC ADVICE; particularly due to his apparent jealousy that I am an
SEO Consultant. He immediately labeled me with a nasty stereotype and
proceeded to attack his own "freudian projection", while directing his
hatred towards me personally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Steve Sobol

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On 2007-10-20, Doug Baiter <doug-baiter@no.where> wrote:

> Jerry, you're a confrontational moron.

Jerry doesn't suffer fools gladly, that's for damned sure. He and I have
had our differences. But he's nowhere near as confrontational as you are,
Brett.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

Steve Sobol

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On 2007-10-20, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> "Jerry Stuckle Still Sucks My ..."

That thread looks like it was written by a bunch of juvenile assholes. That
doesn't give me very much faith in the credibility of the people who created
it.

>
> Unless you put it in context with what others have to say about you.

> "Lack of Professionalism"
> "Jerry Stuckle - Fat, Old, Talentless, Unproducing and Stupid"
> "Jerry Stuckle = JERRY THE FAIRY"

I haven't found these yet, but I will say that if people actually *have*
legitimate complaints about Jerry and expect those complaints to be taken
seriously, they may want to try being a little bit more grown-up. Jerry
the Fairy? Ha. Yeah, that'll get people's attention.

> "That way anyone in the future who runs a search on the name "Jerry
> Stuckle" is gonna find all sorts of nasty things attributed to
> his ..."

Yeah, that's part of the "sucks" thread.

> I don't know much about gay guys, but the rest seems pretty accurate
> based on how you act. I figure they praise you because you are such a
> *respectable* guy.

Dude. Find actual complaints written in coherent English by people who have
actually graduated from elementary school, and I might believe your claims.

Of course, the fact that you'd even *cite* threads like the ones you cited
doesn't make you sound very mature.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On Oct 20, 6:12 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:[color=darkred]
> On 2007-10-20, Doug Baiter <doug-bai...@no.where> wrote:
>

I didn't write that, STEVE. But I DID laugh when I read it.

He's like an ignorant drunk that picks fights with innocent bystanders
who could easily squash him.

I'll bet he only attacks people in this manner when he is hiding
behind a monitor, safe in his living room - and probably does so
because he was picked on his entire life by people he admired.

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

Doug Baiter wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:55:52 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yawn. Theres none so blind as them that will not see...
> Jerry, you're a confrontational moron. Its unfortunate that you cant
> see that, but it doesn't make it any the less true. Nevertheless, its
> still fun to watch you caution the OP about his name now being allied
> forever with posts that might not show him in a good light, while
> doing exactly the same thing yourself. Now, you feel free to post
> whatever dribble you like in response, since its probably beyond your
> grasp that all you're doing is proving what an odious choice of
> business partner you would prove to be.
>

ROFLMAO! Doug, you are an anal troll. But you can't see it.

In case you can't guess, I really don't give a damn what Brett thinks of
me here. And it doesn't matter what you think of me - you aren't my
customer.

And unlike you and Brett, I don't advertise here. A good part of that
is because I have more business than I can handle now - I'm turning work
down and having to sub out more than I like. And actually I could quit
working tomorrow and not feel the pain. I work because I enjoy it, not
because I have to earn money to live.

Unlike you, I have a very good business reputation amongst my customers.
I don't advertise because all of my work comes in through word of
mouth. And virtually all of the work I have been contacted to do
offline from this and other newsgroups I've turned down.

You don't get it, you sorry sucker. There is nothing you nor Brett nor
anyone else here can do hurt me. So quite frankly, I don't give a
flying XXXX what you or he say about me.

Now go screw off, stoopid troll.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 20, 5:34 pm, Doug Baiter <doug-bai...@no.where> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm not the OP; the OP is probably reading his 200 page report.
>
> Jerry hijacked this thread to attack me after I OFFERED LEGITIMATE ON-
> TOPIC ADVICE; particularly due to his apparent jealousy that I am an
> SEO Consultant. He immediately labeled me with a nasty stereotype and
> proceeded to attack his own "freudian projection", while directing his
> hatred towards me personally.
>

Try it again, you lying XXXXXXX. I jumped in when you called Steve a
troll for telling the truth about you and your "expertise".

You're nothing more than a stoopid troll. And there is no way I could
ever be jealous of you. NONE of my customer's pages have a google PR 2
like your home page does. And ALL of my customer's pages show up in the
top 100 for the key words, and most of them are in the top 10.

You don't even show up in the top 1,000 for your home page. What is
there to be envious of?

Stoopid troll.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
>
>

You really should study those more closely. Maybe you'll learn
something. Like I'm not associating you with anyone - just calling you
what you are - a scam artist and a flim-flam man.

And you really should learn not to project your psychological processes
on others.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 20, 6:12 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
> I didn't write that, STEVE. But I DID laugh when I read it.
>
> He's like an ignorant drunk that picks fights with innocent bystanders
> who could easily squash him.
>

You are anything but ignorant, XXXXXXX.

> I'll bet he only attacks people in this manner when he is hiding
> behind a monitor, safe in his living room - and probably does so
> because he was picked on his entire life by people he admired.
>
>

You don't know me very well. Here are a couple of links you should look up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
> On Oct 20, 5:07 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle
>
>
> Unless you put it in context with what others have to say about you.
>
> "Lack of Professionalism"
>
> "Jerry Stuckle - Fat, Old, Talentless, Unproducing and Stupid"
>
> "Jerry Stuckle = JERRY THE FAIRY"
>
> "Jerry Stuckle Still Sucks My ..."
>
> "That way anyone in the future who runs a search on the name "Jerry
> Stuckle" is gonna find all sorts of nasty things attributed to
> his ..."
>
> I don't know much about gay guys, but the rest seems pretty accurate
> based on how you act. I figure they praise you because you are such a
> *respectable* guy.
>
> LOL: http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+Stuckle
>
>

Yep, every one of those from Matthew Moulton.

And if I really cared about him, he'd hear from my attorney. And if I
cared one whit about anything you say, you would also.

But stoopid trolls aren't worth my time.

I'll tell you what. You're so good. Here's a challenge for you.

$50,000. Both of us put it up to be held in escrow. One real customer
site to optimize - we will agree on which one. Two new neutral domain
names.

Whoever gets the higher page ranking takes all.

If you're such an expert at it, there should be no problem.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> SEOwebMarket.com wrote:
>
>
> I win AGAIN!!!
>
> <http://validator.w3.org/check?verbo...ing-service.htm>
> This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Transitional!
> Result: Failed validation, 2 Errors
>

ROFLMAO! "Not his code!"

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Steve Sobol

2007-10-20, 10:17 pm

On 2007-10-20, SEOwebMarket.com <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
> On Oct 20, 6:12 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
> I didn't write that, STEVE

It's possible that Doug isn't a sockpuppet of yours, but considering that
he just coincidentally popped up at the right time, it sure looks suspicious.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...1,5871580.story

SEOwebMarket.com

2007-10-21, 3:15 am

On Oct 20, 9:07 pm, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> On 2007-10-20, SEOwebMarket.com <webm...@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> It's possible that Doug isn't a sockpuppet of yours, but considering that
> he just coincidentally popped up at the right time, it sure looks suspicious.

You can jump to absurd conclusions all day long - BUT accusing ME of
being guilty of what YOU dreamt