Webmaster forum - Rant: Let's face it

Author

Rant: Let's face it

Karl Groves

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

Some people should NOT be making web sites.

I don't mean hobbyists, and people doing freebies. I mean "professionals".
I just finished reviewing a site for a government agency (who shall
obviously remain nameless), and I am SHOCKED at what a clusterXXXX it is.

I'm not talking about the deprecated, nested-tables, vomitting spacer image
layout. I'm talking about broken links everywhere, missing images,
violations of Section 508, confusing Information Architecture.

Some people should NOT be making web sites professionally. I've seen
better sites than this by pure amateurs. In fact, I know a 14 year old kid
who's very first web site was better than this.

--
Karl Groves
www.karlcore.com

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

Karl Groves wrote:

> Some people should NOT be making web sites.
>
> I don't mean hobbyists, and people doing freebies. I mean
> "professionals". I just finished reviewing a site for a government
> agency (who shall obviously remain nameless), and I am SHOCKED at
> what a clusterXXXX it is.

Did they use FrontPage? <wink wink>

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

Karl Groves

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

Uncle Pirate

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in
news:zn0Jg.720526$Fs1.213901@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

> Karl Groves wrote:
>
>
> Did they use FrontPage? <wink wink>
>

Or Word "Save As HTML"?

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB; RETIRED!!
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

Paul Watt

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

"Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote in message
news:Xns982E9BE066AA2karlkarlcorecom@216.196.97.136...
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in
> news:zn0Jg.720526$Fs1.213901@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>
> Only one step better: Dreamweaver
>
>

DW aint all that bad, s'long as you keep an eye on the code as you go, or
better than that use code view all the time. Works for me.

--
Cheers

Paul
le singe est dans l'arbre
http://www.paulwatt.info

Karl Groves

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

"Paul Watt" <paulio@wattio.NOSPAMfreeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:4ljmeiF296hlU1@individual.net:

>
>
>
> "Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns982E9BE066AA2karlkarlcorecom@216.196.97.136...
>
> DW aint all that bad, s'long as you keep an eye on the code as you go,
> or better than that use code view all the time. Works for me.
>

You're right. I should have mentioned that it looked like an obvious case
of DW in design view, and layout table mode.

--
Karl Groves
www.karlcore.com

Paul Watt

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

"Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote in message
news:Xns982EA95467261karlkarlcorecom@216.196.97.136...
> "Paul Watt" <paulio@wattio.NOSPAMfreeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> news:4ljmeiF296hlU1@individual.net:
>
>
> You're right. I should have mentioned that it looked like an obvious case
> of DW in design view, and layout table mode.
>

In that case , you're right. design view and espesh layout table mode is the
work of the devil.

--
Cheers

Paul
le singe est dans l'arbre
http://www.paulwatt.info

ggtadmin@gmail.com

2006-08-29, 6:47 pm

> I know a 14 year old kid who's very first web site was better than this.

Dont we all know that kid? ;)

Andy Dingley

2006-08-29, 10:35 pm

Karl Groves wrote:

> Some people should NOT be making web sites.

No, I disagree completely.

The greatest thing about the web is that it puts My Cat Mittens'
homepage on an equal footing with Fox News. We should always allow, and
indeed _encourage_ such sites -- even if they're built with FP and
hosted on geocities.

> Some people should NOT be making web sites professionally.

That's different.

Although I'd argue that it's the comissioning party's fault, more than
the web developer. It's difficult to win a contract to empty wastebins
for the government, but they'll engage any idiots to do IT work for
them.

jmc

2006-08-30, 6:43 pm

Suddenly, without warning, Karl Groves exclaimed (30-Aug-06 4:33 AM):
> Some people should NOT be making web sites.
>
> I don't mean hobbyists, and people doing freebies. I mean "professionals".
> I just finished reviewing a site for a government agency (who shall
> obviously remain nameless), and I am SHOCKED at what a clusterXXXX it is.
>
> I'm not talking about the deprecated, nested-tables, vomitting spacer image
> layout. I'm talking about broken links everywhere, missing images,
> violations of Section 508, confusing Information Architecture.
>
> Some people should NOT be making web sites professionally. I've seen
> better sites than this by pure amateurs. In fact, I know a 14 year old kid
> who's very first web site was better than this.
>

Ha! What makes you think the person was a professional? Just 'cause
they're a govvie? Nope. Some admin with extra time and some desire to
try something new, likely. Maybe even someone in IT. Five years ago.
They whipped up the site, probably their boss thought it was cool (well,
better than nothing anyway) and it was kept updated for a while. Then
they left, and nobody took up the site, thus the broken links and all.

Sound familiar?

Gads, you should see the site I just dumped for my new skeleton site.
Frontpage - used includes for Every Friggin Piece of Every Friggin Page.
A single page had 6 includes! What a bear to try to edit! Tried
once, then decided that a forklift upgrade was the way to go. Oh, and
the site had been created in, I think, 2001 and abandoned in 2003.

Most of the people I'm working for now don't even know what Section 508
*is*. ::sigh::

And, yes, my piece of the gov't will remain nameless as well.

jmc

David Hennessy

2006-08-30, 10:46 pm

Karl Groves wrote:
> Some people should NOT be making web sites.
>
> I don't mean hobbyists, and people doing freebies. I mean "professionals".
> I just finished reviewing a site for a government agency (who shall
> obviously remain nameless), and I am SHOCKED at what a clusterXXXX it is.
>
> I'm not talking about the deprecated, nested-tables, vomitting spacer image
> layout. I'm talking about broken links everywhere, missing images,
> violations of Section 508, confusing Information Architecture.
>
> Some people should NOT be making web sites professionally. I've seen
> better sites than this by pure amateurs. In fact, I know a 14 year old kid
> who's very first web site was better than this.
>

Given that it was a government contract, you should be happy a web site
got made at all! :-P

--
David Hennessy
http://david.maidix.com/

MGW

2006-08-30, 10:46 pm

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:11:44 GMT, David Hennessy <david@maidix.com>
scrawled:

> Karl Groves wrote:
>
>
> Given that it was a government contract, you should be happy a web site
> got made at all! :-P

Our state's Attorney General is running for governor. There was just
a story in the paper that the only branch of the state government that
doesn't have a functional website is the AG's office!

I'm not sure who I'll vote for, but I'm certain who I'll be voting
against...

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-31, 3:43 am

MGW wrote:

> Our state's Attorney General is running for governor.

Spitzer?

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

MGW

2006-08-31, 3:43 am

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:43:35 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.mous@example.invalid> scrawled:

> MGW wrote:
>
>
> Spitzer?

Reilly

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-31, 3:43 am

MGW wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:43:35 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
> <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> scrawled:
>
>
> Reilly

Ok, different state. <g> In New York, the AG is running also.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.