Webmaster forum - Yahoo Local

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Yahoo Local - User Reviews

smitthy5319@yahoo.com

2006-08-27, 6:39 pm

Web forum,

I'm going to be redesigning a website for a Dermatologist. When I do a
Yahoo search for Dermatologists in his city, his name immediately pops
up at the top of the list in Yahoo Local... normally a very good thing.
BUT, it is displayed with the truncated text of a highly unfavorable
review of the doctor. Forget the fact that there are other favorable
reviews, OR that the list is not sorted by date.

I know the trends are leading toward Local reviews of
businesses/services... there is also certainly, a degree of fraud and
unfair representation with such a system.

>From what I can determine thus far, the only recourse to the above, is
IF the Doctor were to dispute the review as 'abuse' to Yahoo Local.

>From an SEO perspective, I'm really stumped, on what is best to do/not
concerning the 'FREE' bad press the Doctor has received.

Any advice?
Thank you
-Kathy

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-27, 6:39 pm

In alt.www.webmaster, smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:

> Web forum,

Do be aware this is a Usenet newsgroup, not a web forum.

> I'm going to be redesigning a website for a Dermatologist. When I do a
> Yahoo search for Dermatologists in his city, his name immediately pops
> up at the top of the list in Yahoo Local... normally a very good thing.
> BUT, it is displayed with the truncated text of a highly unfavorable
> review of the doctor. Forget the fact that there are other favorable
> reviews, OR that the list is not sorted by date.

Obviously, anyone can enter reviews, then?

> I know the trends are leading toward Local reviews of
> businesses/services... there is also certainly, a degree of fraud and
> unfair representation with such a system.

Certainly could be true.

>From what I can determine thus far, the only recourse to the above, is
> IF the Doctor were to dispute the review as 'abuse' to Yahoo Local.

...and should Yahoo have a legal department to verify if this bad review
really is abuse? Is there a possibly the dermatologist botched a job and
the victim is upset? Should Yahoo do this for *all* bad reviews on their
entire site? What if someone complains about a good review?

>From an SEO perspective, I'm really stumped,

What does this have to do with SEO?

> on what is best to do/not concerning the 'FREE' bad press the Doctor
> has received.

And then ... who is to say that the good doctor himself and some of his
relatives didn't post all of the *good* reviews!

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

smitthy5319@yahoo.com

2006-08-27, 6:39 pm

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> In alt.www.webmaster, smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do be aware this is a Usenet newsgroup, not a web forum.

(Beau, to be honest, I'm not sure what exactly is the difference
pertaining to my post, etc. )

> Obviously, anyone can enter reviews, then?

YEP... just as anyone here can rate them, etc.

> ..and should Yahoo have a legal department to verify if this bad review
> really is abuse? Is there a possibly the dermatologist botched a job and
> the victim is upset? Should Yahoo do this for *all* bad reviews on their
> entire site? What if someone complains about a good review?

"a point" is that there is no accountability to saying, for instance,
"the entire staff was rude." And although there were a few Favorable
reviews (written by WHOM?)... only the negative Review remains
(truncated) as the first and ONLY visible review upon first query.
There seems (to me) to be a number of flaws to the system.. What if
everything worked this way? "Anonymous sources state that".. must be
true? Yes, there is a possibility the Dr. messed up... or not. But the
negative review is the ONLY review one first sees.

>
> What does this have to do with SEO?

What is the point of SEO...? with the FREE (SEO) that Yahoo Local just
provided?

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-27, 6:39 pm

smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Do be aware this is a Usenet newsgroup, not a web forum.
>
> (Beau, to be honest, I'm not sure what exactly is the difference
> pertaining to my post, etc. )

It seemed you thought you were posting to a Google "forum". Don't worry,
many do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

>
> YEP... just as anyone here can rate them, etc.

What does that mean?

>
> "a point" is that there is no accountability to saying, for instance,
> "the entire staff was rude."

Would you be posting here if the reviewer had said "the entire staff was
friendly and smiling" ? Maybe on the day that reviewer visited the
doctor, everyone working there was having a bad day. I've seen this in
my own doctor's office.

> And although there were a few Favorable reviews (written by WHOM?)...
> only the negative Review remains (truncated) as the first and ONLY
> visible review upon first query. There seems (to me) to be a number
> of flaws to the system.. What if everything worked this way?
> "Anonymous sources state that".. must be true? Yes, there is a
> possibility the Dr. messed up... or not. But the negative review is
> the ONLY review one first sees.

Ok. Nobody can comment further on this without seeing the actual
results. Surely though, you don't want to publicize the doctor's name
here in this planet-wide newsgroup.

>
> What is the point of SEO...? with the FREE (SEO) that Yahoo Local
> just provided?

SEO is "Search Engine Optimization" and what that has to do with the
review of a doctor's performance is beyond my kin at the moment. Unless
you meant to say "people Googling the doctor's name will find bad
reviews." Well, there's nothing you can do to stop it...

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-27, 6:39 pm

Beauregard T. Shagnasty replied to hisself:

> beyond my kin

Damn speelchuckers. s/kin/ken

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

smitthy5319@yahoo.com

2006-08-27, 10:32 pm

[color=darkred]
>
> What does that mean?

I may have said this wrong... but everybody has 'credibility'? Stars
now... In my Google browser of this group to Ebay. Everyone is asked to
review/rate etc.

[color=darkred]
> Would you be posting here if the reviewer had said "the entire staff was
> friendly and smiling" ? Maybe on the day that reviewer visited the
> doctor, everyone working there was having a bad day. I've seen this in
> my own doctor's office.

True, "no news is good news" in general.

> Ok. Nobody can comment further on this without seeing the actual
> results. Surely though, you don't want to publicize the doctor's name
> here in this planet-wide newsgroup.

Beau, you are right, I don't want to do that... But I think you are
missing the point. I'm speaking of the process itself, of comments, how
the feedback is rated. Since posting here, I read that what is keeping
the Negative review 'on top' is that '2 out of 3' persons rated these
posts as 'helpful'... while the Positive reviews were not rated.

> SEO is "Search Engine Optimization" and what that has to do with the
> review of a doctor's performance is beyond my kin at the moment. Unless
> you meant to say "people Googling the doctor's name will find bad
> reviews." Well, there's nothing you can do to stop it...

OK... well sure at one level you are correct. But the whole reason
people Pay for SEO and there is SEO is to find customers. Yahoo Local
is entirely ABOUT SEO... and is Providing (Negative) SEO in a very
visible way. And there are algorithms involved, and it is automated...
There is not an individual at Yahoo making phone calls. Consider that
the advice itself to 'be listed' at Yahoo Local and Google Maps is good
SEO advice. No, I can't do anything about how people rate this doctor,
but I can try to understand how the process works.

smitthy5319@yahoo.com

2006-08-27, 10:33 pm

[color=darkred]
>

Beau,

One more...to the above:

Navigation: Search Engine Guide Home Page > Search Engine News > Judy's
Book Helping Local Businesses with Online Reputation Management

http://www.searchengineguide.com/se...ews/007394.html
Judy's Book Helping Local Businesses with Online Reputation Management
Posted by Jennifer April 27, 2006

"Had an email this week from the team over at Judy's Book to let me
know about a new online reputation management tool that they've added
to their site. If you've not yet heard of this great site, Judy's Book
was founded as a free online community designed to let people share
their opinions, thoughts and reviews of local businesses. Their latest
service addition is aimed directly at local businesses and is designed
to not only help them respond to customer feedback, but also to let
them know when that feedback shows up."

Thus "Reputation Management" is now a topic at Search Engine Guide
sites... or should I say "RMO" (Reputation Management Optimization).

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:

> Beau, you are right, I don't want to do that... But I think you are
> missing the point. I'm speaking of the process itself, of comments,
> how the feedback is rated. Since posting here, I read that what is
> keeping the Negative review 'on top' is that '2 out of 3' persons
> rated these posts as 'helpful'... while the Positive reviews were not
> rated.

Ok, now you're adding more info. It's the ratings of the comments that
trouble you.

Well, we all know that very few people make positive comments, but
almost everyone will make (and relay) a negative comment. Human nature,
perhaps.

I doubt if there is anything you can do about it.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

Leonard Blaisdell

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

In article <1156731143.300668.39720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:

> Thus "Reputation Management" is now a topic at Search Engine Guide
> sites... or should I say "RMO" (Reputation Management Optimization).

How many people post negative reviews for what they perceive as poor
service, versus how many people post positive reviews for what they
perceive as getting their money's worth. I know which camp I'm in, and
it ain't the latter. The Better Business Bureau does what Judy's List
does in the US upon inquiry. But they can't respond to an angry customer
posting in a blog, on Usenet, on Google or on a webpage. Now there's an
opportunity for somebody smarter than I am. And worth something if done
well. A worldwide quick response Better Business Bureau.
As is usual with my ideas, it's probably already been done :-(

leo

--
<http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>

MGW

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

On 27 Aug 2006 18:46:51 -0700, smitthy5319@yahoo.com scrawled:
>
> Beau, you are right, I don't want to do that... But I think you are
> missing the point. I'm speaking of the process itself, of comments, how
> the feedback is rated. Since posting here, I read that what is keeping
> the Negative review 'on top' is that '2 out of 3' persons rated these
> posts as 'helpful'... while the Positive reviews were not rated.

So why not get a few people to rate the other posts as helpful?

BTW, I agree that if there are more positive than negative ratings,
it's a shame to have only the negative show when Yahoo shows the guy's
name. Ideally, they should just show names and then let people click
in order to see all comments.

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

MGW wrote:

> On 27 Aug 2006 18:46:51 -0700, smitthy5319@yahoo.com scrawled:
>
> So why not get a few people to rate the other posts as helpful?

Heh, excellent suggestion. I didn't think of it, and wonder why smitthy
didn't?

What's that old Chicago line? "Vote early, and vote often."

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.

Carol W

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

On 27 Aug 2006 18:46:51 -0700, smitthy5319@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>
[snip]
>
>
>OK... well sure at one level you are correct. But the whole reason
>people Pay for SEO and there is SEO is to find customers. Yahoo Local
>is entirely ABOUT SEO...

No .. Yahoo Search or Yahoo Local is _about_ Search Results, not SEO.
SEO is for those who feel the pages in their sites need more work to
rank better than they may already rank.

> and is Providing (Negative) SEO in a very
>visible way.

Not many people will pay to have a post/review optimized for the
purpose of ranking well though. Yahoo Search or Yahoo Local does not
provide SEO (positive or negative) - that is up the person writing the
content (to be found in a search or working to 'promote' the site
through search engines).

>And there are algorithms involved, and it is automated...

True, and those algorithms reportedly take in 100+ factors into
consideration.

>There is not an individual at Yahoo making phone calls. Consider that
>the advice itself to 'be listed' at Yahoo Local and Google Maps is good
>SEO advice.

SEO advice, for local businesses, is not the end all to beat all ...
as many local businesses and medical professionals work off a word of
mouth referral system (which is worth more than being found on a Web
search). For example, when we moved to New Jersey, I didn't do a
Google or Yahoo search for a local dentist ... I asked some of the
locals what their recommendations were.

>No, I can't do anything about how people rate this doctor,
>but I can try to understand how the process works.

If looking at the SEO angle ... then you need to have the doctor's own
web page and the "positive reviews" get higher placements than the
"negative review" page is getting. However, consider that you may
possibly have little to no pull with the review pages' ranking but, if
working on the dentist's site, then you can try to get that one to
rank better. It may not be that hard at all since you are focusing, I
gander, on the local search results thought which may have less
competition for rankings.

Carol

smitthy5319@yahoo.com

2006-08-28, 3:47 am

> So why not get a few people to rate the other posts as helpful?
[color=darkred]
didn't?

After posting here, I have suggested this... but with caution, in that
perceived spamming of the reviews might create more problems. My
personal opinion, is that with a bit of time, and favorable reviews,
the situation will improve. And I agree that leaving this up to a Yahoo
Local outcome is too passive, and that other means, such as his own
marketing initiatives, including website, referrals, etc. ought play an
important part concerning one's reputation.

My labeling this as an SEO related issue might not be technically
correct, but the end result/concern is what it is... the desire for an
online (and favorable) presence.

Thank you for your input/opinions.
-Kathy

MGW

2006-08-28, 6:40 pm

On 28 Aug 2006 00:00:40 -0700, smitthy5319@yahoo.com scrawled:

>
>
> didn't?
>
> After posting here, I have suggested this... but with caution, in that
> perceived spamming of the reviews might create more problems.

That's why I didn't suggest posting new reviews, which I would
consider crossing the line and being dishonest.

OTOH, I think that judging the value of reviews by whether 2 people
found them helpful is idiotic and statistically fraudulant (said as a
statistician.) So I have no trouble with suggesting simply marking
one of the other reviews as having been helpful enough times for it to
move to the top.

I wouldn't suggest anything that erased the bad review. But I agree
that the current system is inherently flawed and unreasonable.

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter