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| Author |
Domain name dispute
|
|
|
| Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
following type of situation?
I'm involved in a non-profit online group with a unique name that can
represent only this group. The website for this group is at
this-unique-name.org. Every occurrence of this name online is in a
link to the site or a mention of this group. We've had our own domain
name for just 2 years, but the organization has been in existence and
online for about 10 years.
Recently, someone registered the .com domain using this unique group
name. I'm 99.9% sure that no one from our group did this. Moreover, I
strongly suspect that the registrant is someone who has difficulty
functioning in groups and is ticked off (to put it mildly) because
she couldn't convince anyone in our group that her illogical thinking
was right and everyone else was wrong. The registrar she used offers
identity shielding, so whois doesn't give us any info about the
registrant. The registrar is in the same country as this troubled
person, though, and the timing fits.
The domain is just parked at this point, but my guess is that the
registrant (if it's who I think it is) is going to either point the
domain to her site, which is *not* where this group would send
people, or create her own site using this domain name, with our (not
her) group name in it.
From http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm : "By applying
to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a
domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that
.... (b) to your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will
not infringe upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third
party...." IMO the registration of the .com domain does infringe upon
the rights of the group with this name.
Section 4a at the above site also describes the situation.
Yes, I know that it's a good idea to register all variations of a
domain. Thing is, it's an online group with donated hosting and no
expense account. If we'd registered .com, what about .net, .info,
etc? Also, the group name is unique and couldn't apply to anyone but
us.
How do I proceed, and what can I expect? The first step, I think, is
to complain to the registrar where the .com domain is registered. To
prove that this person has no rights to use the domain name, I guess
we could link to the forum threads that show this person being a
troublemaker, and maybe the webmaster of the group site would get
involved. Will the registrant have to reveal her/his identity when
the domain is in dispute?
Thanks for any help,
Lois
--
www.wordsweave.com
| |
| Red E. Kilowatt 2005-05-22, 7:25 pm |
| "Lois" <auto-newsgroups@wordsweave.com> wrote in message
news:AF5ke.4875$cA6.2305176@news.sisna.com
> Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
> following type of situation?
>
> I'm involved in a non-profit online group with a unique name that can
> represent only this group. The website for this group is at
> this-unique-name.org. Every occurrence of this name online is in a
> link to the site or a mention of this group. We've had our own domain
> name for just 2 years, but the organization has been in existence and
> online for about 10 years.
>
> Recently, someone registered the .com domain using this unique group
> name. I'm 99.9% sure that no one from our group did this. Moreover, I
> strongly suspect that the registrant is someone who has difficulty
> functioning in groups and is ticked off (to put it mildly) because
> she couldn't convince anyone in our group that her illogical thinking
> was right and everyone else was wrong. The registrar she used offers
> identity shielding, so whois doesn't give us any info about the
> registrant. The registrar is in the same country as this troubled
> person, though, and the timing fits.
>
> The domain is just parked at this point, but my guess is that the
> registrant (if it's who I think it is) is going to either point the
> domain to her site, which is *not* where this group would send
> people, or create her own site using this domain name, with our (not
> her) group name in it.
>
> From http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm : "By applying
> to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a
> domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that
> ... (b) to your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will
> not infringe upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third
> party...." IMO the registration of the .com domain does infringe upon
> the rights of the group with this name.
>
> Section 4a at the above site also describes the situation.
>
> Yes, I know that it's a good idea to register all variations of a
> domain. Thing is, it's an online group with donated hosting and no
> expense account. If we'd registered .com, what about .net, .info,
> etc? Also, the group name is unique and couldn't apply to anyone but
> us.
>
> How do I proceed, and what can I expect? The first step, I think, is
> to complain to the registrar where the .com domain is registered. To
> prove that this person has no rights to use the domain name, I guess
> we could link to the forum threads that show this person being a
> troublemaker, and maybe the webmaster of the group site would get
> involved. Will the registrant have to reveal her/his identity when
> the domain is in dispute?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Lois
My guess is that unless the name is a registered trademark you're out of
luck. Here is some info on domain name trademarks:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property/domain/main.html
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ta...es/guide299.htm
--
Red
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-05-22, 11:24 pm |
| Lois wrote:
Lois,
If you want free (but non-legal) advice, this is a good place to come.
If you want legal advice, you need an attorney.
With that, IANAL, nor do I play one on TV. However, in the U.S., I
agree with Red. Unless they have a trademark or service mark on the
name, they have no legal rights to the name or any of its derivations.
If this is the case, anyone else has as much "right" to the name as you
do. Also, if it isn't trademarked, chances are it's now too late to do
so - since the other person already registered the domain name.
Also, your forum threads are not legally admissible - and in fact
depending on what they say, spreading them around could get you or your
organization in trouble (ask your attorney about slander).
In any event - the registrar will not help you here. It is responsible
for registering the name - not resolving disputes between parties. The
way to handle this is trough ICANN's domain name dispute resolution
policy (http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm). Of course, you can also
hire an attorney and go through the courts.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
|
|
|
| "Jerry Stuckle" wrote:
: If you want free (but non-legal) advice, this is a good place to
come.
That's why I'm here. I'm wondering if other people have relevant
experience or knowledge.
However, in the U.S., I
: agree with Red.
The person is in Canada, if that makes any difference.
Coincidentally, so am I, and I live only a few km from the office of
the domain registrar. I don't exactly have an imposing presence, but
face-to-face contact might help get things done.
Unless they have a trademark or service mark on the
: name, they have no legal rights to the name or any of its
derivations.
The name isn't trademarked, but...I just reread 4a at
http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm, and I'd missed the
"and" joining the points. If it were "or," I could get somewhere.
What about this from the above site:
"2. Your Representations. By applying to register a domain name, or
by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you
hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you
made in your Registration Agreement are complete and accurate; (b) to
your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will not infringe
upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third party; (c) you are
not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) you
will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable
laws or regulations. We do not check to verify, and it is your
responsibility to determine, whether your domain name registration
infringes or violates someone else's rights."
She can't agree to (b).
OK, here's the situation. The domain name is that of a newsgroup. If
it were for this newsgroup, it would be altwwwwebmaster.org.
Imagine that in this newsgroup, everyone is polite and supportive,
and that these traits are very important to the group. Someone comes
into the group who (to the regulars) appears to be way out of touch
with reality by how she responds to numerous posters. She repeatedly
posts what the others recognize as misinformation and blasts people
who politely disagree with her. She finally leaves. Then she (well,
we think it's her) registers altwwwwebmaster.com and sets up a site
describing how useful frames are and publishing misinformation about
CSS, HTML, SEO, etc. She knows just enough to sound credible
sometimes, but anyone who knows much about the subject sees her
constant factual mistakes, which she refuses to acknowledge.
Sure, there's already plenty of misinformation about webmaster topics
online, but imagine how you'd feel about having your group name
tarnished by someone pretending to represent your group and using its
name to publish her misinformation. Imagine too that you've worked on
that site for years to build a strong reputation and that experts who
don't post here are referring newbies to the site with your group
name.
Imagination isn't going to solve the problem, but does it give anyone
any ideas? Can someone who is clearly not part of a particular
newsgroup use its name to further her agenda? A newsgroup name can
belong to only that group.
: Also, your forum threads are not legally admissible - and in fact
: depending on what they say, spreading them around could get you or
your
: organization in trouble (ask your attorney about slander).
I know plenty about slander. I'm a victim of it from the above
person. I can use newsgroup and forum posts to demonstrate that (a)
she committed slander, (b) I didn't, and (c) she is *not* part of the
group.
: In any event - the registrar will not help you here. It is
responsible
: for registering the name - not resolving disputes between parties.
The
: way to handle this is trough ICANN's domain name dispute resolution
: policy (http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm). Of course, you can
also
: hire an attorney and go through the courts.
We aren't likely to go to court when the group has no funds. The only
thing that involves money is the domain registration, and we asked
for donations for that.
So you don't think that my showing up at the registrar's office will
get me anywhere? Maybe if I bring someone twice my size? ;-)
Thanks,
Lois
--
www.wordsweave.com
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2005-05-23, 7:56 am |
| Lois wrote
> Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
> following type of situation?
>
> I'm involved in a non-profit online group with a unique name that can
> represent only this group. The website for this group is at
> this-unique-name.org. Every occurrence of this name online is in a
> link to the site or a mention of this group. We've had our own domain
> name for just 2 years, but the organization has been in existence and
> online for about 10 years.
>
> Recently, someone registered the .com domain using this unique group
> name. I'm 99.9% sure that no one from our group did this. Moreover, I
> strongly suspect that the registrant is someone who has difficulty
> functioning in groups and is ticked off (to put it mildly) because
> she couldn't convince anyone in our group that her illogical thinking
> was right and everyone else was wrong. The registrar she used offers
> identity shielding, so whois doesn't give us any info about the
> registrant. The registrar is in the same country as this troubled
> person, though, and the timing fits.
>
> The domain is just parked at this point, but my guess is that the
> registrant (if it's who I think it is) is going to either point the
> domain to her site, which is *not* where this group would send
> people, or create her own site using this domain name, with our (not
> her) group name in it.
>
> From http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm : "By applying
> to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a
> domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that
> ... (b) to your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will
> not infringe upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third
> party...." IMO the registration of the .com domain does infringe upon
> the rights of the group with this name.
>
> Section 4a at the above site also describes the situation.
>
> Yes, I know that it's a good idea to register all variations of a
> domain. Thing is, it's an online group with donated hosting and no
> expense account. If we'd registered .com, what about .net, .info,
> etc? Also, the group name is unique and couldn't apply to anyone but
> us.
>
> How do I proceed, and what can I expect? The first step, I think, is
> to complain to the registrar where the .com domain is registered. To
> prove that this person has no rights to use the domain name, I guess
> we could link to the forum threads that show this person being a
> troublemaker, and maybe the webmaster of the group site would get
> involved. Will the registrant have to reveal her/his identity when
> the domain is in dispute?
Forget it. Don't waste your time. What harm is there in the person
having the .com name?
Unless they put up a site and passed it off as yours, which would be a
different matter. You could then be looking at a WIPO claim:
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2005-05-23, 7:56 am |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote
> Also, your forum threads are not legally admissible
Why is that? In the UK you can present emails in court. Same thing?
Speaking from experience here. I had a dispute in court with donhost.
Emails were presented and used without question.
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2005-05-23, 7:56 am |
| Lois wrote
> I don't exactly have an imposing presence
So much the better. Use the fluttering eyelashes and sweet talk
approach!
> I know plenty about slander. I'm a victim of it from the above
> person. I can use newsgroup and forum posts to demonstrate that (a)
> she committed slander, (b) I didn't, and (c) she is *not* part of the
> group.
AIUI slander is the spoken word. The written word is libel.
Tell you what Lois, this is just a cat fight in some obscure alley! You
are just buying into her ploy big-time by your reaction.
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Matt Probert 2005-05-23, 7:56 am |
| Once upon a time, far far away "Lois" <auto-newsgroups@wordsweave.com>
spluttered
>Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
>following type of situation?
Yeah. Don't we just....
Unscrupulous crooks have registered variaious spellings of ours and
other domains to pick off stray readers and direct them to advert
laden sites.
We cant afford the legal costs in reclaiming our property. :(
Matt
--
The Probert Encyclopaedia - Beyond Britannica
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com
| |
| William Tasso 2005-05-23, 7:43 pm |
| Forging a path through the Usenet jungle, armed only with a rusty
Xnews/06.12.01, Charles Sweeney stumbled into alt.www.webmaster and said:
> Lois wrote
>
> Forget it. Don't waste your time.
agreed - there's plenty that just hold onto these things in case you want
to buy it.
>
> Unless they put up a site and passed it off as yours, which would be a
> different matter.
absolutely.
--
Whatever you do - do something.
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-05-23, 7:44 pm |
| Lois wrote:
> That's why I'm here. I'm wondering if other people have relevant
> experience or knowledge.
You missed my point. If you want legal advice, you need to see an
attorney. Any legal advice you get on the Internet will be worth what
you paid for it.
> The person is in Canada, if that makes any difference.
> Coincidentally, so am I, and I live only a few km from the office of
> the domain registrar. I don't exactly have an imposing presence, but
> face-to-face contact might help get things done.
I don't know Canada law, but I believe it is similar to U.S. law.
Again, see an attorney.
> The name isn't trademarked, but...I just reread 4a at
> http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm, and I'd missed the
> "and" joining the points. If it were "or," I could get somewhere.
Yep. The trademark or service mark is legal recognition of ownership.
Without it, you have no protection.
>
> What about this from the above site:
>
> "2. Your Representations. By applying to register a domain name, or
> by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you
> hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you
> made in your Registration Agreement are complete and accurate; (b) to
> your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will not infringe
> upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third party; (c) you are
> not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) you
> will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable
> laws or regulations. We do not check to verify, and it is your
> responsibility to determine, whether your domain name registration
> infringes or violates someone else's rights."
>
> She can't agree to (b).
>
Sure she can The organization never trademarked the name, so they have
no legal ownership of it. Therefore, the woman is not violating
anyone's rights - because there are no rights to violate.
> OK, here's the situation. The domain name is that of a newsgroup. If
> it were for this newsgroup, it would be altwwwwebmaster.org.
>
> Imagine that in this newsgroup, everyone is polite and supportive,
> and that these traits are very important to the group. Someone comes
> into the group who (to the regulars) appears to be way out of touch
> with reality by how she responds to numerous posters. She repeatedly
> posts what the others recognize as misinformation and blasts people
> who politely disagree with her. She finally leaves. Then she (well,
> we think it's her) registers altwwwwebmaster.com and sets up a site
> describing how useful frames are and publishing misinformation about
> CSS, HTML, SEO, etc. She knows just enough to sound credible
> sometimes, but anyone who knows much about the subject sees her
> constant factual mistakes, which she refuses to acknowledge.
>
She is perfectly legal in doing such.
> Sure, there's already plenty of misinformation about webmaster topics
> online, but imagine how you'd feel about having your group name
> tarnished by someone pretending to represent your group and using its
> name to publish her misinformation. Imagine too that you've worked on
> that site for years to build a strong reputation and that experts who
> don't post here are referring newbies to the site with your group
> name.
Posting misinformation is in itself not against the law. Pretending to
be someone you aren't may be an action for fraud.
>
> Imagination isn't going to solve the problem, but does it give anyone
> any ideas? Can someone who is clearly not part of a particular
> newsgroup use its name to further her agenda? A newsgroup name can
> belong to only that group.
See an attorney.
>
> I know plenty about slander. I'm a victim of it from the above
> person. I can use newsgroup and forum posts to demonstrate that (a)
> she committed slander, (b) I didn't, and (c) she is *not* part of the
> group.
Charles is right - it's libel, not slander (I shouldn't try to update
late at night).
You need to be careful here. If you're the victim of libel, then you
have successfully sued her and won. If not, you cannot claim to be the
victim of her slander; doing so can get you sued for slander!
> We aren't likely to go to court when the group has no funds. The only
> thing that involves money is the domain registration, and we asked
> for donations for that.
>
> So you don't think that my showing up at the registrar's office will
> get me anywhere? Maybe if I bring someone twice my size? ;-)
>
No, I don't think so - and if you don't have a legal stand, it could get
you into big trouble.
Get an attorney; you are getting yourself into deep water here.
Remember - she has rights, also. And if you infringe on her rights, it
can cost you big time.
> Thanks,
> Lois
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-05-23, 7:44 pm |
| Charles Sweeney wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote
>
>
>
>
> Why is that? In the UK you can present emails in court. Same thing?
>
> Speaking from experience here. I had a dispute in court with donhost.
> Emails were presented and used without question.
>
Charles,
It's a problem with authenticity. Did the defense challenge whether or
not the emails were authentic?
If they did, there is at least some tracking in the email headers which
can help prove the authenticity. There's even some in the headers here
in the newsgroup. However, there is none in the typical message forum.
All the other party has to do is deny she posted the messages, and
perhaps someone else got her id and password (maybe even the board
moderator, to make her look bad). And there would be no way to prove
otherwise.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| SpaceGirl 2005-05-23, 7:44 pm |
| Lois wrote:
> Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
> following type of situation?
>
> I'm involved in a non-profit online group with a unique name that can
> represent only this group. The website for this group is at
> this-unique-name.org. Every occurrence of this name online is in a
> link to the site or a mention of this group. We've had our own domain
> name for just 2 years, but the organization has been in existence and
> online for about 10 years.
>
> Recently, someone registered the .com domain using this unique group
> name. I'm 99.9% sure that no one from our group did this. Moreover, I
> strongly suspect that the registrant is someone who has difficulty
> functioning in groups and is ticked off (to put it mildly) because
> she couldn't convince anyone in our group that her illogical thinking
> was right and everyone else was wrong. The registrar she used offers
> identity shielding, so whois doesn't give us any info about the
> registrant. The registrar is in the same country as this troubled
> person, though, and the timing fits.
>
> The domain is just parked at this point, but my guess is that the
> registrant (if it's who I think it is) is going to either point the
> domain to her site, which is *not* where this group would send
> people, or create her own site using this domain name, with our (not
> her) group name in it.
>
> From http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm : "By applying
> to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a
> domain name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that
> ... (b) to your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will
> not infringe upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third
> party...." IMO the registration of the .com domain does infringe upon
> the rights of the group with this name.
>
> Section 4a at the above site also describes the situation.
>
> Yes, I know that it's a good idea to register all variations of a
> domain. Thing is, it's an online group with donated hosting and no
> expense account. If we'd registered .com, what about .net, .info,
> etc? Also, the group name is unique and couldn't apply to anyone but
> us.
>
> How do I proceed, and what can I expect? The first step, I think, is
> to complain to the registrar where the .com domain is registered. To
> prove that this person has no rights to use the domain name, I guess
> we could link to the forum threads that show this person being a
> troublemaker, and maybe the webmaster of the group site would get
> involved. Will the registrant have to reveal her/his identity when
> the domain is in dispute?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Lois
If you ask me, sounds like it was a very daft mistake not to have bought
the domain yourself and you'll pay for that mistake. I dont think there
is anything you can do at all.
| |
| William Tasso 2005-05-23, 7:44 pm |
| Forging a path through the Usenet jungle, armed only with a rusty Mozilla
Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317), SpaceGirl stumbled into
alt.www.webmaster and said:
> Lois wrote:
>
> If you ask me, sounds like it was a very daft mistake not to have bought
> the domain yourself
Why? there are many claims to many words that have become URLs - snapping
up all that apply to one specific entity is wasteful of a finite
resource. Problems arise when a website is fabricated to fool visitors
that it represents something it doesn't - but that's a different can of
maggots.
The first of these issues I noticed on mainstream media was when a town
(in Surrey) wanted the domain name for their town but discovered that it
was already taken. Their town shares its name with a type of bird. Matey
was whingeing that it wasn't fair - reporting was a bit one sided - and
that a town surely had a better claim than a bird. Don't think the
reporter knew which Qs to ask. A quick check reveals there are now many
sites representing that town, all/most/many with appropriate domain names
- no idea if the 'official' town site project ever got off the ground.
--
Whatever you do - do something.
| |
| SpaceGirl 2005-05-23, 7:45 pm |
| William Tasso wrote:
> Forging a path through the Usenet jungle, armed only with a rusty
> Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317), SpaceGirl stumbled into
> alt.www.webmaster and said:
>
>
>
> Why? there are many claims to many words that have become URLs -
> snapping up all that apply to one specific entity is wasteful of a
> finite resource. Problems arise when a website is fabricated to fool
> visitors that it represents something it doesn't - but that's a
> different can of maggots.
>
> The first of these issues I noticed on mainstream media was when a town
> (in Surrey) wanted the domain name for their town but discovered that
> it was already taken. Their town shares its name with a type of bird.
> Matey was whingeing that it wasn't fair - reporting was a bit one sided
> - and that a town surely had a better claim than a bird. Don't think
> the reporter knew which Qs to ask. A quick check reveals there are now
> many sites representing that town, all/most/many with appropriate
> domain names - no idea if the 'official' town site project ever got off
> the ground.
>
If a client asks for a name, I *always* advise them to buy the most
popular variations of the requested name and misspellings. It's daft not to.
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2005-05-23, 7:45 pm |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote
> Charles Sweeney wrote:
donhost.[color=darkred]
>
> Charles,
>
> It's a problem with authenticity. Did the defense challenge whether
or
> not the emails were authentic?
lol. The defence was me. I was representing myself. As it happens,
there was no dispute over the emails, they were just building up a
picture.
I think, as you suggest. A criminal case, or a case where the emails
were disputed, would be different.
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2005-05-23, 7:45 pm |
| SpaceGirl wrote
> If you ask me, sounds like it was a very daft mistake not to have bought
> the domain yourself and you'll pay for that mistake.
That was my first thought, although Lois explained why they didn't do that.
Personally, I would have at least got the .com
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Red E. Kilowatt 2005-05-23, 7:46 pm |
| "Lois" <auto-newsgroups@wordsweave.com> wrote in message
news:Xkeke.9288$qu2.5127272@news.sisna.com
> What about this from the above site:
>
> "2. Your Representations. By applying to register a domain name, or
> by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you
> hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you
> made in your Registration Agreement are complete and accurate; (b) to
> your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will not infringe
> upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third party; (c) you are
> not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) you
> will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable
> laws or regulations. We do not check to verify, and it is your
> responsibility to determine, whether your domain name registration
> infringes or violates someone else's rights."
>
> She can't agree to (b).
Well, that's clearly your opinion, but it is based on a false notion
that the newsgroup can claim ownership of a name simply because they've
been using it. Legally that doesn't apply to any sort of name for
business or anything else unless it's a registered trademark.
> Sure, there's already plenty of misinformation about webmaster topics
> online, but imagine how you'd feel about having your group name
> tarnished by someone pretending to represent your group and using its
> name to publish her misinformation. Imagine too that you've worked on
> that site for years to build a strong reputation and that experts who
> don't post here are referring newbies to the site with your group
> name.
>
> Imagination isn't going to solve the problem, but does it give anyone
> any ideas? Can someone who is clearly not part of a particular
> newsgroup use its name to further her agenda?
Yes
> A newsgroup name can
> belong to only that group.
No. I'm sorry but that's just not the case.
> I know plenty about slander. I'm a victim of it from the above
> person. I can use newsgroup and forum posts to demonstrate that (a)
> she committed slander, (b) I didn't, and (c) she is *not* part of the
> group.
Irrelevant. And you need to understand that "part of the group" is a
misnomer. You cannot exclude anyone from newsgroup unless it's a
moderated group. You can ignore them, but you can't exclude them.
I know this is hard for you to accept, but the reality is that you just
can't prevent anyone from using a variation on the domain name or
otherwise claiming they represent a newsgroup.
We have a faq at www.aww-faq.org. If someone wants to register
www.aww-faq.com or any other variation of it and put up a site that
claims to be the "official" web site for the newsgroup there's nothing
anyone can do about it.
The person you're talking about obviously gets off on disrupting things
and getting a rise out of people. I'm sure that was what motivated the
trolling, the domain registration and you can expect that eventually
there will be a web site that you're not going to like. You have to let
go of this because, as the old prayer goes, "Give me strength to change
the things I can change, give me courage to accept the things I cannot
change, and grant me the wisdom to know the difference."
That goes for the trolling as well. You can't stop someone who is intent
on passing out misinfomation and you reward the trolling if you react to
it. The most you should do is regularly post a troll faq on that
individual--but not too often. Do not respond to every message they
post. There is only one tried and true method for getting rid of trolls
and that is to completely ignore them. Sometimes it seems as though they
will never leave, but if you can get everyone to ignore them they will
eventually move on to greener pastures.
--
Red
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| "Lois" <auto-newsgroups@wordsweave.com> wrote in message
news:Xkeke.9288$qu2.5127272@news.sisna.com...
> What about this from the above site:
>
> "2. Your Representations. By applying to register a domain name, or
> by asking us to maintain or renew a domain name registration, you
> hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you
> made in your Registration Agreement are complete and accurate; (b) to
> your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will not infringe
> upon or otherwise violate the rights of any third party; (c) you are
> not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) you
> will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable
> laws or regulations. We do not check to verify, and it is your
> responsibility to determine, whether your domain name registration
> infringes or violates someone else's rights."
>
> She can't agree to (b).
Don't know about Canada, but in the US, without the Trademark you don't
really have an exclusive right to that name.
> OK, here's the situation. The domain name is that of a newsgroup. If
> it were for this newsgroup, it would be altwwwwebmaster.org.
>
> Imagine that in this newsgroup, everyone is polite and supportive,
> and that these traits are very important to the group. Someone comes
> into the group who (to the regulars) appears to be way out of touch
> with reality by how she responds to numerous posters. She repeatedly
> posts what the others recognize as misinformation and blasts people
> who politely disagree with her. She finally leaves. Then she (well,
> we think it's her) registers altwwwwebmaster.com and sets up a site
> describing how useful frames are and publishing misinformation about
> CSS, HTML, SEO, etc. She knows just enough to sound credible
> sometimes, but anyone who knows much about the subject sees her
> constant factual mistakes, which she refuses to acknowledge.
Nothing anyone could do, since usenet names are not owned.
> Imagination isn't going to solve the problem, but does it give anyone
> any ideas? Can someone who is clearly not part of a particular
> newsgroup use its name to further her agenda? A newsgroup name can
> belong to only that group.
Who owns "alt.www.webmaster"? Answer that question and we can get somewhere.
And I don't mean "the people who use the group" - I mean who has legal
ownership of that name?
> : Also, your forum threads are not legally admissible - and in fact
> : depending on what they say, spreading them around could get you or
> your
> : organization in trouble (ask your attorney about slander).
>
> I know plenty about slander. I'm a victim of it from the above
> person. I can use newsgroup and forum posts to demonstrate that (a)
> she committed slander, (b) I didn't, and (c) she is *not* part of the
> group.
In reverse order:
(c) is irrelevant
(b) is good only in that you would be safe from legal action. Given that you
haven't (that I noticed, at least) given a specific name, I'd say you're
fairly safe.
(a) Get a lawyer and sue, then. If you're really been slandered, you should
have a case.
> We aren't likely to go to court when the group has no funds. The only
> thing that involves money is the domain registration, and we asked
> for donations for that.
>
> So you don't think that my showing up at the registrar's office will
> get me anywhere? Maybe if I bring someone twice my size? ;-)
It's not the registrar who's the problem - unless you have a trademark, they
won't do anything. In fact, for them TO do something would be a violation of
the other person's rights, and would put the registrar in legal trouble.
| |
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"Lois" <auto-newsgroups@wordsweave.com> wrote in message
news:AF5ke.4875$cA6.2305176@news.sisna.com...
> Does anyone have any experiences or advice to share about the
> following type of situation?
>
If it is really necessary you can petition ICANN. You probably need a good
lawyer to help you draft the complaint. You must demonstrate that your name
has some significant in your industry and the other website can cause
confusion with your customers. It is helpful if you have a trademark but not
absolutely necessary. Chances are generally low that they will grant your
request, but I can tell you from personal experience that they do grant such
requests. It is not terribly expense as you simply gather the facts
(publications and industry stats are helpful), submit the request and wait.
You can do all the fact gathering but should have a lawyer file the request.
Good Luck.
Mike
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