This is Interesting: Free Magazines for Graphics designers and webmasters
Home > Archive > Webmaster forum > December 2005 > worst registrar is gkg.net
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
worst registrar is gkg.net
|
|
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 3:32 am |
| I've renewed my domain name with them and suddenly They locked the
name!
Why?becouse they thought(!) it was a stolen credit card.
After they find out they were wrong -they said : a simple
misunderstaning happened-they just asked me $15 more for putting it
back into good state!
I paid the price and everything seemd to be normal for one day but
I -just for curiosity- filled a complain with bbb.org about this
matter.
And now becouse of that complain they send me an email that we didnt
recieved your previous permission our email has changed -which is
wrong- please send it to this new address and becouse you have filled a
complain we now require $200 not $15.
So what do you think?
I think the best thing consumer can do is not doing bussines with them.
So dont do any bussines with gkg.net as they are the worst registrar.
And just remember never fill anything with bbb.org they just make
things worse!
regards
| |
| ironcito 2005-12-22, 6:50 am |
| roozbeh wrote:
> So what do you think?
First, I'd transfer my domain(s) out of there ASAP. Choose a more
established registrar this time. I've been working with eNom for a
couple of years and I have no complaints, but I'm sure there are other
good ones.
Second, once you're safe, take the matter further with BBB, ICANN,
and if you're in the US, you can probably take it with some other
organizations as well. If the matter gets ugly and they won't give up
the domain, you could take it to court.
http://reports.internic.net/cgi/reg...blem-report.cgi
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-22, 6:50 am |
| On 22 Dec 2005 00:28:33 -0800, "roozbeh" <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> posted
something that included:
>I think the best thing consumer can do is not doing bussines with them.
>So dont do any bussines with gkg.net as they are the worst registrar.
>And just remember never fill anything with bbb.org they just make
>things worse!
And the worst thing someone can do is believe stories from anonymous
users of throwaway email accounts when the stories don't make sense.
For using a spurious credit card number to buy a domain name, you
should go to prison.
If you cause a registrar to buy a domain name that he can't sell, you
*can* buy if from his inventory - but he needs to charge extra to
cover the cost of *other* domain names in his inventory ordered with
spurious credit cards. Paying $20 for a domain name is not outrageous.
A few years ago, it cost $100 to get a new domain name - and it is
still $35 with some registrars.
If you want to redeem an expired domain name, it's expensive. The $200
price you were quoted is fairly competitive.
If you have a dispute over a credit card purchase, your proper
response is to file a complaint with the credit card company. Of
course, if you use a spurious credit card in the first place, you
don't have that option.
Filing a false report with the BBB or posting a packet of lies to
usenet, even if they are so transparent as yours, is a matter of
criminal commercial libel. It's not just a lawsuit; you can go to
prison for this.
You're not providing ANY details that could substantiate your story
because you don't want anyone investigating it, and showing you wrong.
Do you think everyone on usenet is *stupid*?
Your reprehensible behavior reflects poorly on your mother.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 7:05 pm |
| Hi ironcito
Thanks
I try to do all legal stuffs.
Hi Paul..
I am glad peaple of gkg are also reading usenets!And hooow logical they
are all just like the company they work for.
And also please watch your tongue!
I am very impressed with these lots of informations you have and how
quickly figured out i am a lier!![color=darkred]
1.
Who said i was using a spurios card?!
I was using my friends credit card -becouse i dont have one -with his
accurate permission -which i can also approve becouse he is sending all
those mails to that company-.And with multiple times he wrote them it
was with my full permission.
For misleading ppl on usenet where should ppl go?
2.
They said "we misunderstanded you" and so we will give you back domain
name with just more $15.-see the very competetive price is $15!!-
If they were innocent-as you would like to believe-nothing would happen
when i complained them at bbb.
But after complaining now they need your competetive price ($200).
[color=darkred]
3.
Who said i filled a false BBB report?!Do have any more informaton to
enlighthen us?
It was very true,but i am afraid they might obvously working for you
too!!
4.
How do you know these are lies?
Do you know anything more than that i've posted or...?!
[color=darkred]
5.
I am providing enough information anybody can see that -i know,not you-
and also i will be glad to put them all on internet.And obviously
thats all i am willing to do.
Just name what you call "details" and i will fill here and all the net
with more details!
[color=darkred]
6.
Believe me,i never thought anybody on usenet is stupid,but i do believe
those guys working for companies like gkg and posting on usenets with
that language are really stupid!
[color=darkred]
7.
Why are you really that angry?I have unfairly lost my domain name.I am
not that angry!I am just laughing at how stupid ppl like you can be.
8.
And really thanks for your post now peaple really understand how
companies like gkg talk with them after doing some complains.
They talk about their moms on usenet!! :)) Wooow what a great method!
9.
And not threathening that much about prison will do any good!
Or if beside talking about moms thats you another costumer method!!
But i do believe they should put ppl like you in jail becouse of
misleading posts in usenet and posting bunchs of craps,nonsenses!
Why dont you tell us how you know this much informations.If you are
working for gkg.net you should at least tell!
And if not please be more logical!
Maybe you are again "misunderstanding things".
10.
And sorry about my english.Please dont "misunderstand" it.English is
just not my mother language!
regards
roozbeh
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 7:05 pm |
| >>And the worst thing someone can do is believe stories from anonymous[color=darkred]
Besides can you enlighten me why am i anonymous?
Are you anonymouse?What users are called anonymouse?
For example why you are not anonymouse?Really...
I think the answer is simple becouse you just know yourselfs!
One day Paul ding wakes up and looked at mirror :
hmmm...this is paul ding how can i be anonymouse...but
roozbeh?rozbeh?rzb?no i never heard of him...so he doesnt exist..he IS
anonymouse....Everybody in the world knows me..i have a website; he
doesnt..
I work at gkg.net-which is obviously the only company in earth- he
doesnt...
So thats the reason i am anonymouse and he is not!!
Long-live paul ding
perfect story!
| |
| Brian Cryer 2005-12-22, 7:05 pm |
| "roozbeh" <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:1135240113.063945.224310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I've renewed my domain name with them and suddenly They locked the
> name!
> Why?becouse they thought(!) it was a stolen credit card.
>
> After they find out they were wrong -they said : a simple
> misunderstaning happened-they just asked me $15 more for putting it
> back into good state!
I would expect most hosts to confirm that a credit card payment had been
authorised before doing any work on the back of it, so I'm a little
surprised that this situation has arisen.
Whose mistake was it? Yours, the credit card company's or the gkg.net's?
If it was your mistake then its reasonable that they charge you. (May be not
the $200 you said, but the $15.)
If it was gkg.net's mistake then you shouldn't have been charged.
If it was the credit card's company then I'm not sure - but it would be
worth contacting them about it.
--
Brian Cryer (IANAL)
www.cryer.co.uk/brian
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-22, 7:06 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
roozbeh <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> why am i anonymous?
choice?
The use of a web interface doesn't usually engender an air of authenticity.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 7:06 pm |
| Ok..
Thanks for telling me that!
but i've always used google becouse it makes every usenet accessible
and have archive of any posts!
I really thought everyone else was using it too.
regards
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-22, 7:06 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
roozbeh <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> Ok..
> Thanks for telling me that!
np
> but i've always used google becouse it makes every usenet accessible
are you sure it does that?
> and have archive of any posts!
well, most of them
> I really thought everyone else was using it too.
niet - only for searching the archive when desirable (for which it is an
excellent tool).
most folk use a real newsreader connected to a real news-server. I urge
you to do the same - it's the real thing.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| On 22 Dec 2005 04:20:21 -0800, "roozbeh" <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> posted
something that included:
>I am glad peaple of gkg are also reading usenets!And hooow logical they
>are all just like the company they work for.
I do not work for GKG, not now, nor ever in the past. I have never
done business with them at all. They are a competitor as I am a
reseller for DirectI and Enom.
>I am very impressed with these lots of informations you have and how
>quickly figured out i am a lier!!
It wasn't difficult. You made it very obvious.
>Who said i was using a spurios card?!
YOU DID. You claimed they thought it was stolen. The only reason they
would think that is because you don't know the information that any
legitimate card owner would know, such as the exact name printed on
the card, the billing address for the card, and the CVC value.
>I was using my friends credit card
And now you *admit* that you were using a card which wasn't yours. Did
you have the permission of the credit card company? No. And that
legally is fraud.
>They said "we misunderstanded you" and so we will give you back domain
>name with just more $15.-see the very competetive price is $15!!-
>If they were innocent-as you would like to believe-nothing would happen
>when i complained them at bbb.
>But after complaining now they need your competetive price ($200).
Sure an interesting story you are coming up with. But you *still*
refuse to identify who you are, the name of the domain you were trying
to register, who you were dealing with.
On the other hand, their terms of service are clearly stated on their
website. In order to buy a domain name from them, you were required to
agree to their TOS, and you really need to pay the fees you've piled
up. It's the only honest thing to do.
You - and GKG - play by the same rules as everybody else. If you don't
pay for a domain name in a timely fashion, it goes into the redemption
period, during which time it is quite costly to renew the domain. In
the case of GKG, it's $200. On the other hand, you are the only one
that can buy the domain name during that period. If you wait 60 days,
it will go into "pending deletion" for another 5 days or so. Once
"pending deletion" is over, then anyone can buy the domain name
through any registrar.
>Who said i filled a false BBB report?!Do have any more informaton to
>enlighthen us?
OK, tell us what information you used in filing a report with the BBB,
so we can determine whether you stated that you fraudulently were
using someone else's credit card to buy a domain name. My guess is
that you omitted that choice detail - and I've been pretty good about
these guesses so far, as you have admitted.
>How do you know these are lies?
>Do you know anything more than that i've posted or...?!
How could I possibly know anything more than what you've posted? You
provided *no* details. For all anyone knows, you are the "other
woman" in GKG's life, and you're POed that he's gone back to his wife.
Or maybe GKG is a woman, or maybe he's gay, and he went back to his
boyfriend. The only things that are certain is that you're POed at GKG
and you're not being truthful.
[color=darkred]
>I am providing enough information anybody can see that -i know,not you-
>and also i will be glad to put them all on internet.And obviously
>thats all i am willing to do.
>Just name what you call "details" and i will fill here and all the net
>with more details!
Gee, would it be too much to provide the domain name you were trying
to register?
Would it be too much to provide the contact information you are
required to provide as a requirement for registering a domain?
Would it be too much to provide the contact information for the person
whose credit card you were fraudulently using?
Would it be too much to provide that email address you claim that they
stopped using, just in order to make your life miserable?
Would it be possible to post copies of your correspondence, both to
and from?
The *ONLY* information you're providing is the name of GKG and BBB,
both of which you're unhappy with. Why are you insisting on remaining
anonymous?
>Believe me,i never thought anybody on usenet is stupid,but i do believe
>those guys working for companies like gkg and posting on usenets with
>that language are really stupid!
What language? Words like "reprehensible", and "criminal" and "libel"?
>Why are you really that angry?I have unfairly lost my domain name.I am
>not that angry!I am just laughing at how stupid ppl like you can be.
YOUR domain name? It's not yours until you pay for it.
>And really thanks for your post now peaple really understand how
>companies like gkg talk with them after doing some complains.
>They talk about their moms on usenet!! :)) Wooow what a great method!
You're engaged in criminal fraud, and criminal libel, but it's *my*
fault that you are disgracing your mother?
>And not threathening that much about prison will do any good!
>Or if beside talking about moms thats you another costumer method!!
>But i do believe they should put ppl like you in jail becouse of
>misleading posts in usenet and posting bunchs of craps,nonsenses!
>Why dont you tell us how you know this much informations.If you are
>working for gkg.net you should at least tell!
>And if not please be more logical!
>Maybe you are again "misunderstanding things".
I know that information from reading between the lines of your post.
The fact that you're complaining that I have correct information
indicates that you aren't as good a liar as you think.
And how would anyone from GKG possibly be able to identify you? You're
provided *zero* identifying details, and you are surely not the only
criminal they've dealt with lately.
For the record, I do not assert GKG is a company of great integrity
and character; I cannot do that for I am quite unfamiliar with them.
It's hard in this business, though, much harder than in many
businesses, to find a company that is both competent and trustworthy.
But my judgment was based not on *their* reputation, but upon your
vague, unsupported, and highly suspicious claims.
>And sorry about my english.Please dont "misunderstand" it.English is
>just not my mother language!
I find no fault with your English. It's your morals I object to.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| peter.elsner@gmail.com 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Hi,
My name is Peter Elsner and I work for GKG.
Here is the rest of the (or real) story behind this fiasco.
The domain Mr. roozbeh...@XXXXXXXXXX (and also at yahoo.com), renewd was
EN2FA.NET.
He renewed it with his friends credit card. However, his friend
contacted us the same day and said he did not recognize the charges and
asked us to reverse the charges. We did. As per our TOS, we then
removed the domain from roozbeh's control. We considered this to be
fraud as we had no other reason not to believe that. Mr. roozbeh
contacted us and said it was a mistake and also provided us with an
email from his friend who now stated it was a mistake and please
re-charge the card and re-activate the domain. Normally when we remove
a domain for credit card fraud, either intentionally or unintentionally
as in this case, we assess a reinstatement fee of $200.00.
Since Mr. roozbeh and his friend stated it was a mistake, we told him
we would only charge him $15.00 instead of the normal $200.00. I think
that was very generous of us. Instead of paying the $15.00, Mr.
roozbeh then decided to contact the BBB. He filed a complaint. So,
now that he has done that, and we had to deal with the BBB (which by
the way we are still in excellent standing with them), we now told him
he had to pay the full $200.00 in order to get his domain back.
We believe this is only fair, considering all of the trouble that he
has caused us for a mere $8.95/year renewal.
GKG takes great pride in providing some of the best customer service in
the industry. We also have the lowest credit card fraud score in the
domain registration industry, because we take every fraud complaint
very seriously.
Thanks,
Peter Elsner
GKG Support
roozbeh wrote:
> I've renewed my domain name with them and suddenly They locked the
> name!
> Why?becouse they thought(!) it was a stolen credit card.
>
> After they find out they were wrong -they said : a simple
> misunderstaning happened-they just asked me $15 more for putting it
> back into good state!
>
> I paid the price and everything seemd to be normal for one day but
> I -just for curiosity- filled a complain with bbb.org about this
> matter.
>
> And now becouse of that complain they send me an email that we didnt
> recieved your previous permission our email has changed -which is
> wrong- please send it to this new address and becouse you have filled a
> complain we now require $200 not $15.
>
> So what do you think?
>
> I think the best thing consumer can do is not doing bussines with them.
> So dont do any bussines with gkg.net as they are the worst registrar.
> And just remember never fill anything with bbb.org they just make
> things worse!
>
> regards
| |
| SpaceGirl 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My name is Peter Elsner and I work for GKG.
>
> Here is the rest of the (or real) story behind this fiasco.
>
> The domain Mr. roozbeh...@XXXXXXXXXX (and also at yahoo.com), renewd was
> EN2FA.NET.
>
> He renewed it with his friends credit card. However, his friend
> contacted us the same day and said he did not recognize the charges and
> asked us to reverse the charges. We did. As per our TOS, we then
> removed the domain from roozbeh's control. We considered this to be
> fraud as we had no other reason not to believe that. Mr. roozbeh
> contacted us and said it was a mistake and also provided us with an
> email from his friend who now stated it was a mistake and please
> re-charge the card and re-activate the domain. Normally when we remove
> a domain for credit card fraud, either intentionally or unintentionally
> as in this case, we assess a reinstatement fee of $200.00.
>
> Since Mr. roozbeh and his friend stated it was a mistake, we told him
> we would only charge him $15.00 instead of the normal $200.00. I think
> that was very generous of us. Instead of paying the $15.00, Mr.
> roozbeh then decided to contact the BBB. He filed a complaint. So,
> now that he has done that, and we had to deal with the BBB (which by
> the way we are still in excellent standing with them), we now told him
> he had to pay the full $200.00 in order to get his domain back.
>
> We believe this is only fair, considering all of the trouble that he
> has caused us for a mere $8.95/year renewal.
>
> GKG takes great pride in providing some of the best customer service in
> the industry. We also have the lowest credit card fraud score in the
> domain registration industry, because we take every fraud complaint
> very seriously.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter Elsner
> GKG Support
>
>
>
> roozbeh wrote:
>
While I wont comment on whatever happened, but don't you think it's
really unprofessional to comment on one of your customers in public? I
know it's very temping to comment on negative feedback in public forums,
but it just feeds the flames ultimately. What do you think potential
customers would think after googling and finding this thread...?
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
# this post (c) Miranda Thomas 2005
# explicitly no permission given to Forum4Designers
# to duplicate this post.
| |
| peter.elsner@gmail.com 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Well, since we had already received a few complaints about bad press on
this newsgroup. We felt it was important to set the record straight.
Bad press hurts in my opinion more than the truth.
Thanks,
Peter Elsner
GKG Support
| |
| Duende 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| On 22 Dec 2005 peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> Well, since we had already received a few complaints about bad press on
> this newsgroup. We felt it was important to set the record straight.
> Bad press hurts in my opinion more than the truth.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter Elsner
> GKG Support
>
>
Interesting that you are using a gmail address.
--
D?
| |
| peter.elsner@gmail.com 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| That's only because I've had this gmail address already registered to
use in newsgroups for years...
It was already there, and I did not see any need to create a new email
address.
Thanks,
Peter Elsner
GKG Support
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Hi there again Paul the very inanonymouse person on usenets!
Beleieve me the only reason i am answering you is becouse you are
really an amazing person!I really like you!
And i dont like hundreds of lines posts here with no goal!just both of
us arguing.There is no point for others and i am sure nobody will be
willing to read hundrends of text lines.
The reason i posted here(on usenet) at the first place was just to tell
other simple-hearted peaple like me just no to trust whatever company
that is out there!
And to stop further losses of other innocent peaple.
And if you want to think that your competitors(!) are that perfect and
i am that lier; it is fine with me i am sure i just made my point!
Beside all these things..
i was wondering why should i lie?!why should i post nonsense here?
really i see no point...
1.if the card was stolen,could i be that stupid to use it online and
charge my domain name?!sooner or later they will find out and ban the
site.
2.If i am a lier and i did illegal things why should i post here and
seek for help?Why should i complain when i know i will lose?
3.The most important why should paul ding believe me?
Do bussines with www.gkg.net and you will lose;thats just my
exprience.You can take it or not.
Posting here was a bad idea like mailing to gkg and like complaining to
bbb.org.
Although i would like to thank others for participating and showing me
some ways of resolving these issues.
i thought peaple might come and help,i never thought myself in a trial
with a well known -not anonymouse- judge of internet, paul ding ,to
justify my dids.
Peaple please do bussines with paul ding and his lovely competitor
gkg.net as they are the most innocent companies in the world.They are
not thinkg about money they just think aboud africa,hiv,poor children
and world peace.They are just asking for more -legal-money to be able
to help,and put it in charity.
If my case happened to you think of me and as god has choosen you to be
a saviour of africa,hiv and so on but with help of these perfect guys.
God bless gkg.net
happy now?!
But i have to answer some of your great logics! ::
>I am very impressed with these lots of informations you have and how
>quickly figured out i am a lier!!
>It wasn't difficult. You made it very obvious.
I think it was difficult becouse i read all my infos and details i've
posted here and i get no reason why you thought bbb report was false or
i was a thief or...
But i am sure whoever reads your post will be believeing you working
for gkg.net!
[color=darkred]
Why do you think there is always one or "the only reason" exist for
everything, and that is ofcourse what you are thinking of?!
No.The only reason was not that.If that was the reason; they never
wrote me we "misunderstand" things.and please send us $15.And when
again, i sent it with the very same exact account and credit card they
didnt argue!
The reason was my friend's email asking them not to use his card for
recharging account for next year, as a great excuse for charging us
more and more!
first $15 and now $200.
I think that is the *only reason* you and your competitors can get rich
and post whatever they feel on the net.
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
As i said you are really intresting guy!
I think if you've pasted a little bit more of my text it could become
more clear!
"I was using my friends credit card -becouse i dont have one -with his
accurate permission -which i can also approve becouse he is sending all
those mails to that company-.And with multiple times he wrote them it
was with my full permission."
Well here i can shed some light.By saying i was using my friends credit
card i didnt mean i stoled it and used it!or used it without him
knowing it.
I really "don't know the information that any
legitimate card owner would know, such as the exact name printed on
the card, the billing address for the card, and the CVC value" and for
these reasons the same owner person did renewed my account!And i still
dont know these information so i can't post them here for your
satisfaction-or better say abusal reasons-.
So when he did that, it means it was with his permission.
Why i didnt do that?
I dont think the answer is really important but as i said, currently i
dont have a credit card and expiration date of domain was near so he
did me a favor.And somehow it was a gift from him to me.I think it is
legal for somebody to use his money buying somebody else stuff! or not?
Why i said they Thought(!) it was a stolen card?
Becouse my friend did emailed them and asked them please do not charge
my credit card in the next year!
And they emailed us back with bunchs of amazing stories like things you
say,and later saying we "misunderstanded" your email; as a claim of
credit card abusal!
When they did lock the account?
After renewal,after charging the credit card,after evrythings goes
right,after two weeks, when my friend by my request send them an email.
Why we did email them?
We thought we'd better have a written clue that if they did renewed our
site next year agains our will(automatically) we have something.And
just to notify them not to do so.
Was it really neccessary to email them?
Now no,i am really sorry we wrote that email.
I thought maybe they will do recharge it next year and becouse it wasnt
my credit card i thought it is best to be completly sure to tell them
so they wont charge my friend next year.So he himself emailed them.
But they used that mail as an stolen card report!!
Why?
so they can charge more!
So it was not a stolen card,we did bought that domain name and
everythings was fine.They just misunderstand our emial.(I am pretty
sure they didnt, they just wanted to charge us more).
If it was really stolen or problomatic why they didnt take legal stuff
against us but just asked us for more money?
Anyway if you prefer the exact emails we exchanged i can paste them
here!
So you see i didnt *admit* anything!!nor i did anything illegal.
[color=darkred]
>Who said i filled a false BBB report?!Do have any more informaton to
>enlighthen us?
[color=darkred]
Really paul?! why should i?
You said it was false...ok it was false and it is non of your bussines.
BBB can solve my problem if false or if true.
Why should i post those infos here?thats BBB bussines and mine.
Do you also want me to post what i told my girlfriend on phone
yesterday?Maybe you were thinking i falsly said i loved her!
Anyway if you insist ,i did post almost whatever i wrote here and
attachment of all emails we exchanged.Just these.
[color=darkred]
i never admit anything and
Hey soooryy you were preeeeeeetty wrong about all your guesses.
[color=darkred]
No.
Thats really sounds fair.firts i wanted to but
1.I dont know how could that help solving anything.but fullfiling your
curiosity.(and ofcourse others)
2.I am really frightened of someone stealing that domain name next year
from me by posting its name here.As i am still hoping after the end of
renewal i buy it back.So i prefer not to post the name here.
[color=darkred]
I honestly didnt get the meaning of this post.
If you mean my email address i think you can reach it from here too.
If you mean email address i posted to gkg.net ,it is the same...
[color=darkred]
why should i?Does it really help?
Do you also want me to post his credit number and other things so you
can buy for your gkg friends christmas gifts?!
[color=darkred]
No.
All our emails were numbered and went through "support@rt.gkg.net" but
finally they said
"We are not able to receive attachments at this address. Please send
any
attachments to the address: disputes@gkg.net."
[color=darkred]
Yes it is possible.
But Paul do you think usenet/internet/talks happens here are really a
court?And are we having a trial?
I am not posting/writing here to justify my dids or anything.
Nor i will be glad that peaple think i am right nor will be mad if they
think i am wrong.
I know what has happened.They know it too.And 99% it was their fault as
they admited it.
(Obviously not the way you think i admit things!)
They have posted "but it seems there may have been a misunderstanding
in this case."
And it was.
[color=darkred]
To be honest i thought it was enough for making my point.And i myself
do not read long text posts/writings so i decided to be as concise as i
could.
And i never thought Judge Paul ding will show up and asking me about
everything.
it was an *asking for help* post not *justifing myself* post i made
here.
Becouse if the Great Paul Ding Judge here thinks i am right or wrong it
really doesnt help me out.
I came here to get help on how solving this problem and peaple really
helped by telling me how can i complain and so on.
And also i dont see i can achieve anything -but convincing you- here
with lot more datailed informational containing posts.(wow 100%
gramatically wrong)
I dont think i am anonymouse,but as others said maybe me posting by
google makes things worst here.
My name is clear you can do google eveywhere and be sure 90% of all
roozbeh's are me.
And for record my name is roozbeh gholizadeh.Am i known now?!
[color=darkred]
When i did paid the price and they did renewed it but they stole
it,they asked for more,i paid,they accepted and becouse of complain
they stole it again ,i consider it was/is mine but stolen.
[color=darkred]
No not you fault.
But at least i am glad my mother -unlike yours-didnt solve my school's
algebras and equations problems so i've learned basics of having
logics.
[color=darkred]
I dont think so.[color=darkred]
Hey Paul are you reading my posts?!
Where did i said you have correct information?
The problem is you have lots of incorrect and imaginery informations
that nobody can have by reading my post!and that just amazed me.
Stories about how i've stolen my friends card,how BBB record was false
and so on.
Anyway....
One thing is still bothering me.
If you like me to be a thief,a liar anything no problem.For your
satisfaction i admit i am whatever you think i am.
But read this post they emailed me before complaining them at bbb
"The account is now frozen. We will need payment of the original price
plus reinstatement fees to put this account back in good standing.
it seems here may have been a misunderstanding in this case.
We will reinstate the account with a $15 administrative fee"
and after complaining
"We are not able to receive attachments at this address. Please send
any
attachments to the address: disputes@gkg.net.
...... and since you have filed a
dispute with the local chapter of the BBB, we will be requiring the
full
reinstatement fee of $200 as per our services agreement, in addition to
the
amount we returned due to the use of an un authorized credit card."
Does it make any sense?
If i was a criminal why at the first place everything could get right
with $15 but now after a false(!) complain $200 is needed?
Peaple!
it is simple.
I did bussines with gkg.net for 3 years.I was satisfied.What doest it
mean,i renewed all my domains at one day in year and everything fine.
But does it mean being satisfied?!
I think being satisfied means when you have problems they try to solve
it not to make it harder.
How could a "please dont charge my credit card for next year" means
credit card was stolen,or used unauthorized?
And when the credit card owner again emails and says it was authorized
they insist of somebody reported of abusal?
And asking for just $15 more...and when you do complain now asking for
$200.
It doesnt sounds right!
at least to me.
regards
roozbeh
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the digital harmony cafeteria
SpaceGirl <nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> said:
> peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
>
> While I wont comment on whatever happened, but don't you think it's
> really unprofessional to comment on one of your customers in public?
Agreed - a simple "please take this to mail" would suffice. Anyone
finding the thread would know that the supplier has taken steps to resolve
the issue.
> I know it's very temping to comment on negative feedback in public
> forums, but it just feeds the flames ultimately. What do you think
> potential customers would think after googling and finding this
> thread...?
can't be good (ever) to publish client details on a public forum. I'd
guess that post probably contravined several clauses in the privacy policy
- assuming it's genuine of course.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX <peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> That's only because I've had this gmail address already registered to
> use in newsgroups for years...
Frankly I'd expect anyone who has been using usenet for "years" to
o understand the benefits of quoting
o use a real newsreader
Further, I'd expect anyone posting on behalf of a company to post using a
mail address at a domain belonging to that company.
> It was already there, and I did not see any need to create a new email
> address.
In this case, that may have been an error of judgement.
I hope you guys do indeed manage to solve the issue without further blood.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-22, 7:07 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
roozbeh <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> ...
> And asking for just $15 more...and when you do complain now asking for
> $200.
>
> It doesnt sounds right!
> at least to me.
Without wishing to comment on the details of this particular issue -
consider the work involved in manually processing a query compared to
following auto process.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-22, 10:21 pm |
| Others haven't commented, but I will. I'll assume that this person actually
does work for GKG, but will note that we can't guarantee that that's the case.
peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
> Normally when we remove
> a domain for credit card fraud, either intentionally or unintentionally
> as in this case, we assess a reinstatement fee of $200.00.
*or unintentionally?*
Sweet! I'm a GoDaddy reseller. Thanks for posting that you have this asinine
policy. I'm sure Google Groups has archived it already, and I can point
people to it. I'm sure that, knowing that even if it's your screwup they'll
be charged, people will stay away from you.
> Since Mr. roozbeh and his friend stated it was a mistake, we told him
> we would only charge him $15.00 instead of the normal $200.00. I think
> that was very generous of us. Instead of paying the $15.00, Mr.
> roozbeh then decided to contact the BBB. He filed a complaint. So,
> now that he has done that, and we had to deal with the BBB (which by
> the way we are still in excellent standing with them), we now told him
> he had to pay the full $200.00 in order to get his domain back.
You idiot. If you locked the domain due to alleged fraud and then discovered
that you were mistaken, you have no business charging the customer. If fraud
actually occurred, that's a completely different matter.
> We believe this is only fair, considering all of the trouble that he
> has caused us for a mere $8.95/year renewal.
*he*?
It wasn't *his* decision to lock the domain.
> GKG takes great pride in providing some of the best customer service
Yeah, someone got "serviced," that's for sure. But that's ok. Irritate more
customers, and that'll be fewer GKG registrants and more registrants coming
to other registrars and resellers. I don't mind having people potentially
coming to me because you screwed them.
> the industry. We also have the lowest credit card fraud score in the
> domain registration industry, because we take every fraud complaint
> very seriously.
As you should... but you can go overboard, and in this case it sounds like
you did. Personally, I would have just disputed the charge with the bank. I
would not have bothered with the BBB.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-22, 10:21 pm |
| actually i was out and i did wrote that long letter in response to
paul.
Now i came here and saw peter elsner also did a post.
So i replied that first-although it was written before-i didnt changed
the answer to reflect peters answers.
Dear Peter
First can you please remove my domain name as becouse of reasons i've
posted!
Second thanks for showing up...
[color=darkred]
When we have compliants about each other i think it is best each one
tells his side of story and not the real(!) part of story.Maybe real is
still undefined!
[color=darkred]
Can you prove this?
Maybe my friend is really joking with me and i dont know.at least you
can enligthen me about my friend.
I see only 3 situations:
1.my friends know my gkg panel password so he goes there,recharges the
account and later write a complain that his card was used as froud.
2.i know my friends credit card serial/password/etc. i goes to my
panel, and transfer the money, you do renew the domain,later he finds
out what has happened and email you the card was stolen!
3.we both were sitting together,we did renewed the site and later we
moved out ant as far as i remmeber we were together for next 4-5
hours.And but about 2 weeks later my friend emailed you please dont
charge the card for next year!
As far as i know #3 was what has happened in our reality show!
I think there are some problems with #2 as it seems to be your reality!
If somebody legally used a credit card, can you by just an email refund
everything?!
How do you know email was not a fake mail?
Maybe email was also froud?
Can you shed some lights and post my friends email to me on my private
mail?
(i dont want it to be public becouse somebody else name involves and i
dont have his permission.I am not like proud gkg.net that whenever any
conflicts happens they throw away all infos on net just to preserve
their perfect quality of services obvious to anyone!)
#1 also sounds somehow logical,and by emailing me your infos i can see
that too!
[color=darkred]
If you mean my mistake that i thought you did a mistake it is a true
sentence!
If you mean my mistake,we did that mistake and admited it on our mails,
it is a complete lie!
[color=darkred]
If my friend did contacted you so you did have his email and i didnt
provide a new thing!
But really why some stupid guy first claim my card was stolen and the
next day says it was not?
Maybe i bribed him?!
Or Maybe nobody really meant anything about any cards being stolens!
[color=darkred]
Sounds really fair.A work can either be done with $15 and whenever we
dont like you we can make it also $200.
Thanks for first offering me that price and bearing $185 loss becouse
you liked my name!or my domain name!
OR maybe becouse you knew you "misunderstanded" something....
anyways
[color=darkred]
I think it was too.
Thats why i said you never care about money you just want to help world
peace!
[color=darkred]
We did contacted you and you asked for all our credit cards info.
We did emailed them to you but nothing happened in a week.
You did responed and said please send attachments to another email and
becouse of BBB complain you have to pay small fee of $200!
But
Here is our true story
Well i never heard of BBB before.I started reading your TOS and i
noticed their icon in your site.
It stated Better business Bureau.I find out there, that is also another
ways for resolving issues with companies.
And they stated we first simply forward your mails to their costumer
service So I just gived it a go.
And also i thought i didnt reach my resolution with you,so why i dont
trust these guys.
So i will first hear from your support and next if not resolved they
might do some stuff for me.
But i didnt know BBB is causing that much trouble for you - by simply
forwarding an email - to be a better bussines bureau.
I didnt know another email will kill your server hard disk and couse
you THAT MUCH TROUBLE.
anyway if they are making troubles to you and obviously costumer like
me so costumer have to pay for their troubles why you just dont quit?
I think it sense more logical for "mere $8.95/year renewal" (although i
remember it was 9.20 - maybe i am mistaking here).
[color=darkred]
Yeah god only knows those exact meanings of
"best","customer","service".
[color=darkred]
Please complete it like
because we take every fraud complaint very seriously that even if you
mail us a blank email we will ask for $15.Maybe your friends was trying
to email-bombing us so he can penetrate into our databse and use your
credit card infos to do some illegal stuff!
[color=darkred]
No wonder why..this reminds me of that great customer service which you
are proud of!
| |
| Duende 2005-12-22, 10:21 pm |
| On 22 Dec 2005 roozbeh wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> I think it was too.
> Thats why i said you never care about money you just want to help world
> peace!
For some reason I'm starting to like you. :)
--
D?
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-22, 10:23 pm |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
> Others haven't commented, but I will. I'll assume that this person
> actually does work for GKG, but will note that we can't guarantee that
> that's the case.
>
> peter.elsner@XXXXXXXXXX wrote:
>
>
>
> *or unintentionally?*
>
> Sweet! I'm a GoDaddy reseller. Thanks for posting that you have this
> asinine policy. I'm sure Google Groups has archived it already, and I
> can point people to it. I'm sure that, knowing that even if it's your
> screwup they'll be charged, people will stay away from you.
>
>
>
> You idiot. If you locked the domain due to alleged fraud and then
> discovered that you were mistaken, you have no business charging the
> customer. If fraud actually occurred, that's a completely different matter.
>
>
>
> *he*?
>
> It wasn't *his* decision to lock the domain.
>
>
>
> Yeah, someone got "serviced," that's for sure. But that's ok. Irritate
> more customers, and that'll be fewer GKG registrants and more
> registrants coming to other registrars and resellers. I don't mind
> having people potentially coming to me because you screwed them.
>
>
>
> As you should... but you can go overboard, and in this case it sounds
> like you did. Personally, I would have just disputed the charge with the
> bank. I would not have bothered with the BBB.
>
Steve,
I would agree with you that the customer would not be charged if it were
*their* mistake.
However, in this case it was the credit card owner's mistake - he's the
one who requested the reversal of the charges. Why should gkg.net have
to absorb the cost of correcting someone else's mistake?
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-23, 3:32 am |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I would agree with you that the customer would not be charged if it were
> *their* mistake.
>
> However, in this case it was the credit card owner's mistake - he's the
> one who requested the reversal of the charges. Why should gkg.net have
> to absorb the cost of correcting someone else's mistake?
The monetary cost to reverse a charge is minimal. We're talking about a
matter of PENNIES based on the price of a typical domain registration or
renewal. Throw in a few bucks to handle the cost of the tech support droid
too, if you want. I'm still not 100% convinced that the original poster
screwed up, even having reviewed the thread.
There are certain policies GKG can follow to minimize the chances of credit
card fraud. If the customer's in the US, GKG can require the Card
Verification code off the back of the card. Only someone holding the card
would know it. Then you normally want to ask for the billing address. Only
the cardholder or someone properly authorized by the cardholder has it.
Require both and you're in good shape, assuming the customer has a credit
card from a US bank.
Now, consider that GKG is not necessarily under the obligation to
immediately revoke the domain name either - merchants ARE generally given
the chance to investigate disputes... unless you're talking about certain
classes of American Express merchants, but Amex is a crappy company to deal
with anyhow...
I still think GKG went overboard in their handling of this situation and I
am still siding with the OP.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-23, 3:33 am |
| On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:37:24 -0800, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
posted something that included:
>The monetary cost to reverse a charge is minimal. We're talking about a
>matter of PENNIES based on the price of a typical domain registration or
>renewal.
Bob Parsons will buy back the domain from you under those
circumstances?
>There are certain policies GKG can follow to minimize the chances of credit
>card fraud. If the customer's in the US, GKG can require the Card
>Verification code off the back of the card. Only someone holding the card
>would know it. Then you normally want to ask for the billing address. Only
>the cardholder or someone properly authorized by the cardholder has it.
>Require both and you're in good shape, assuming the customer has a credit
>card from a US bank.
If you would take a couple of minutes to check out GKG's site, they
*do* ask for the CVC2 number off the back of the card *and* the
billing address for the card.
Today, I received a chargeback in the mail for a purchase made last
*MAY* for which I validated the CVC2 number and the billing address.
The woman who owns the card claims that the purchase was made by a
houseguest, although she claims to be unable to provide name or
address for that houseguest.
>Now, consider that GKG is not necessarily under the obligation to
>immediately revoke the domain name either - merchants ARE generally given
>the chance to investigate disputes... unless you're talking about certain
>classes of American Express merchants, but Amex is a crappy company to deal
>with anyhow...
Tell you what, why don't you post the domain name of your website, so
that spammers can come seek you out for domain names? You aren't going
to shut them down right away if it turns out the domain was purchased
with a bogus credit card, and by the time you *do* decide to shut them
down, the domain name has been posted on all the black hole lists.
>I still think GKG went overboard in their handling of this situation and I
>am still siding with the OP.
Posting your domain name here, and a guarantee on your site that you
won't shut down people who buy domain names with bogus credit cards
will go a long way to demonstrate your sincerity.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| triffid@oink.co.uk 2005-12-23, 6:43 pm |
| > Hi there again Paul the very inanonymouse person on usenets!
> Beleieve me the only reason i am answering you is becouse you are
> really an amazing person!I really like you!
> And i dont like hundreds of lines posts here with no goal!just both of
> us arguing.There is no point for others and i am sure nobody will be
> willing to read hundrends of text lines.
Then why do it? This part alone added another 6 lines to an extremely
long reply.
Paul's message was long, but your reply is *much* longer. I've seen
shorter messages in alt.binaries.complete-dvd-rips....
When posts get this longwinded, it doesn't matter if you're right or
wrong. No-one will read them. Quote and reply only to the relevant
parts if you actually want someone to pay attention.
I thought *I* was verbose until I read this.
- Triffid
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-23, 6:43 pm |
| Yeah,I know..
And i think that was a reason nobosy read it ;)
By the why Peter can you please again remove my domain name from here?
regards
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-23, 6:43 pm |
| roozbeh wrote:
> Yeah,I know..
> And i think that was a reason nobosy read it ;)
>
> By the why Peter can you please again remove my domain name from here?
>
> regards
>
This is usenet, not some bulletin board. It is archived by hundreds of
servers and web sites all over the world.
What is posted to usenet stays on usenet. He can't remove it.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-23, 6:43 pm |
| ooops
i didnt know that...
But i have seen post being removed?or am i wrong again?
I think gkg must again be really proud of their costumer privacy
methods they are using!
I really dont know mentioning my domain name how has helped?!
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-23, 10:42 pm |
| Paul Ding wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:37:24 -0800, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
> posted something that included:
>
>
> Bob Parsons will buy back the domain from you under those
> circumstances?
Hold on here. Assuming that the registration WAS fraudulent, I think the
registrar has every right to recoup the costs of the fraudulent transaction
and go after the perp to collect money for time spent dealing with it.
> If you would take a couple of minutes to check out GKG's site, they
> *do* ask for the CVC2 number off the back of the card *and* the
> billing address for the card.
>
> Today, I received a chargeback in the mail for a purchase made last
> *MAY* for which I validated the CVC2 number and the billing address.
> The woman who owns the card claims that the purchase was made by a
> houseguest, although she claims to be unable to provide name or
> address for that houseguest.
Amex, MC, Visa, Discover, some other type of card? Which one... I'm curious.
If your merchant agreement with your CC processor allows them to charge you
back arbitrarily with no recourse, I'd change CC processors.
>
> Tell you what, why don't you post the domain name of your website, so
> that spammers can come seek you out for domain names? You aren't going
> to shut them down right away if it turns out the domain was purchased
> with a bogus credit card, and by the time you *do* decide to shut them
> down, the domain name has been posted on all the black hole lists.
http://domainnames.justthe.net/, and I resell GoDaddy (WildWestDomains), who
actually is rather more heavy-handed than I'd like them to be.
And you're throwing out a red herring here. I can see doing a temporary
chargeback while the incident is investigated, but if it is found to NOT be
a fraudulent transaction, which it turns out this one wasn't, there should
be no *permanent* chargeback.
>
> Posting your domain name here, and a guarantee on your site that you
> won't shut down people who buy domain names with bogus credit cards
> will go a long way to demonstrate your sincerity.
It's not up to me. I don't handle the credit card processing myself,
WildWestDomains does. I'd like to eventually switch to their API product
which will allow me to host my own domain-name site and handle my own
processing, but I currently don't.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-23, 10:42 pm |
| roozbeh wrote:
> ooops
> i didnt know that...
> But i have seen post being removed?or am i wrong again?
>
> I think gkg must again be really proud of their costumer privacy
> methods they are using!
>
> I really dont know mentioning my domain name how has helped?!
>
No guarantees that any post delete request will be honored by any of the
thousands of hosts.
Hey, what's your problem with your domain name? I'd like to remind you
YOU came here badmouthing THEM. YOU gave THEIR domain name out and then
started bitching about how bad they were.
He listed your domain name after several requests for you to do so,
which you ignored. It gave a lot more credibility to HIS side of the
story than YOU did.
And ALL he did was give out your domain name. You're lucky he didn't
sue you for libel.
You started it. You have NO reason to complain!
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-23, 10:45 pm |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
>
> The monetary cost to reverse a charge is minimal. We're talking about a
> matter of PENNIES based on the price of a typical domain registration or
> renewal. Throw in a few bucks to handle the cost of the tech support
> droid too, if you want. I'm still not 100% convinced that the original
> poster screwed up, even having reviewed the thread.
>
Then there's the time involved talking to the person who owned the card,
actually reversing the charges, restricting the domain, charging the
domain fee and extra $15.00 when he changed his mind... The list goes on
and on.
Of course, I'm sure if you're willing to do all that manual work for
free, gkg might rethink his policy. But time IS money, and they have a
right to recoup the additional costs for the transaction. They were
very kind to only make it $15.00.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-24, 3:39 am |
| On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 17:05:55 -0800, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
posted something that included:
>Hold on here. Assuming that the registration WAS fraudulent, I think the
>registrar has every right to recoup the costs of the fraudulent transaction
>and go after the perp to collect money for time spent dealing with it.
That's immaterial. If someone buys a domain from you, and it turns out
to be a stolen credit card, you are asserting that the cost to reverse
the charge is pennies. That's patently false. You eat the cost of the
domain, you eat the cost of the discount the bank charges you for
processing the charge, you pay a fee for them to process the
chargeback, and you're looking at a higher discount rate the next time
the bank reviews your rates. The cost is *much* closer to $10 than to
"pennies".
>Amex, MC, Visa, Discover, some other type of card? Which one... I'm curious.
>If your merchant agreement with your CC processor allows them to charge you
>back arbitrarily with no recourse, I'd change CC processors.
This one was a Visa, but it doesn't make any difference. The card
company investigates, and if they conclude that the customer did not
authorize the charge, that you failed to deliver what was sold in a
satisfactory manner or for any other reason, they believe that the
customer should get a refund, the customer gets a refund, and the
merchant is the one that pays.
It's not the card processor who makes that decision. It's the credit
card company. That policy has been written into every bank card
agreement I've ever seen, and that would date back to about 1967 or
1968.
>And you're throwing out a red herring here. I can see doing a temporary
>chargeback while the incident is investigated, but if it is found to NOT be
>a fraudulent transaction, which it turns out this one wasn't, there should
>be no *permanent* chargeback.
These two guys, in collusion, bought something, and then denied
authorizing its purchase. Either the purchase of the domain name was
fraudulent, or claiming that it was unauthorized was fraudulent. It's
very difficult to get a prosecution for small internet crimes, because
of the travel costs involved in getting people to testify, but this
one would be a slam dunk if you put it before a jury.
>It's not up to me. I don't handle the credit card processing myself,
>WildWestDomains does. I'd like to eventually switch to their API product
>which will allow me to host my own domain-name site and handle my own
>processing, but I currently don't.
Ah, it's not up to you because you *choose* for it not to be up to
you.
When you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, I'd be
glad to have you revisit the issue.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-24, 6:14 am |
| >>Hey, what's your problem with your domain name? I'd like to remind you[color=darkred]
My problem is i didnt want it to be public!
How really a domain name can make one side of story true or false?So
now that you know my domain name,does it make me guilty or innocent?!
The reason i didnt wanted it to be public was lots of peaple would like
to take their hands on that name so if they just find out that it is
now out of my control they will all start waiting till the right moment
and have it.
I am still willing to get it back at least next year when renewal
expires!
And besides i didnt agreed on my service provider privacy,but they have
agreed on costumer privacy!
I dont think they have any rights to publicize my email and domain name
whenever somone criticize them!
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
Yes i am really lucky they are not sueing me for their mistake.
And luckier becouse of critizing them now i have to pay $200 instead of
$15.
[color=darkred]
Yes they are the most kindest!
But imagine this,they are so kind to their costumers that even with a
fake email they will reverse everythings,restrict the domain and all
those, just becouse of anonymouse letter?!
Couldnt they just investigate matter a little bit more instead of
working that(!) hard to block domain name?
Does'nt all these manual work bother them?
But reversing these things will bother them $15,and being complained
will bother them $200?!
Anyway i dont think we will ever reach to a resolution.
But i have a quastion..
They did renewed my site,i dont think they can reverse that,becouse if
they could they have done that till now.
So it means they paid for it to icann-i guess-or some other place?
Does it worth for them to hold it for another year and gain nothing,or
sell it at leat this year?
Becouse obviously nobody will buy it $200 (+$9.20).
Also i have found some newsservers having this usenet but all post are
from two weeks ago.why?am i doing something wrong?
regards
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| roozbeh wrote:
>
> My problem is i didnt want it to be public!
Then you shouldn't have posted your first message to usenet.
> How really a domain name can make one side of story true or false?So
> now that you know my domain name,does it make me guilty or innocent?!
> The reason i didnt wanted it to be public was lots of peaple would like
> to take their hands on that name so if they just find out that it is
> now out of my control they will all start waiting till the right moment
> and have it.
The fact he knows which domain you've been talking about (but not
identified) and allows the rest of us to look up the domain registration
details.
And you should have though of that before you got on here and started
complaining about gkg.net.
I don't know why "lots of people" would want the domain name. It's not
a *bad* domain name, but it's not a *great* one, either. And if that
many people really wanted it, it would have been gone by now.
> I am still willing to get it back at least next year when renewal
> expires!
>
And it may be released long before that for non-payment. There is no
requirement gkg hold on to your domain name until next November if you
haven't paid. And so far it seems you haven't.
> And besides i didnt agreed on my service provider privacy,but they have
> agreed on costumer privacy!
> I dont think they have any rights to publicize my email and domain name
> whenever somone criticize them!
>
They do in defense of themselves. Remember - you slandered them first
by getting on and only telling a part of the story. And I think they
have every right to respond as they did.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes i am really lucky they are not sueing me for their mistake.
> And luckier becouse of critizing them now i have to pay $200 instead of
> $15.
>
This was NOT their mistake! YOU used a friend's card, which, BTW, is
illegal in the U.S., even if you have your friend's permission. YOUR
FRIEND (the true owner of the card) asked to have the charges reversed,
which gkg did.
Your friend then discovered he made a mistake. Gkg was kind enough to
correct the mistake for a small fee ($15) to cover their expenses.
Instead of paying the fee to cover their expenses, you complained to the
BBB. This cost them more time in replying to the complaint. So,
instead of being kind to you and only charging $15, they are now going
back to their original terms - which they have a complete right to do.
Don't complain about you being the injured party. YOU screwed up, and
when gkg tried to help by charging only a small fee, you screwed up even
more.
>
> Yes they are the most kindest!
> But imagine this,they are so kind to their costumers that even with a
> fake email they will reverse everythings,restrict the domain and all
> those, just becouse of anonymouse letter?!
> Couldnt they just investigate matter a little bit more instead of
> working that(!) hard to block domain name?
> Does'nt all these manual work bother them?
> But reversing these things will bother them $15,and being complained
> will bother them $200?!
>
One of the ICANN requirements is that you have a valid email address
listed. Not having a valid email address (and other registration
information) is grounds for restricting any domain - whether there is an
anonymous letter or not.
>
> Anyway i dont think we will ever reach to a resolution.
> But i have a quastion..
> They did renewed my site,i dont think they can reverse that,becouse if
> they could they have done that till now.
> So it means they paid for it to icann-i guess-or some other place?
> Does it worth for them to hold it for another year and gain nothing,or
> sell it at leat this year?
> Becouse obviously nobody will buy it $200 (+$9.20).
>
They can cancel the registration any time after the restriction period
due to non-payment, and release the domain back to the pool. But they
also are also under no requirement to do so.
>
> Also i have found some newsservers having this usenet but all post are
> from two weeks ago.why?am i doing something wrong?
> regards
>
I don't know. Mine us up to date.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| Thanks Jerry for infos.
I still dont get the neccesity of my email and domain name being
publiced but i think i can live with that!
But anyway i will try reading their privacy agreement and for sure if i
find they did wrong i will fill another complain at BBB.Maybe this time
they raise domain name to $400.
At least not having my domain name i can be proud how worthy it was!
[color=darkred]
I know you dont know why.
Becouse actually it means in another language something meaningfull.And
i invented that name 3 years ago and now we have more than 10 programs
nameing exactly same which are my rivals.(My program was actually free
and all those were commercials).
Anyway i hope nobody get their hands on it before i do.
[color=darkred]
Clearly i do not agree with you here.
And i still insist i didnt tell a part of story.Yes i did tell my part
of story and they did their part.
But me being a *anonymous* person on net but gkg being well-known
company doesnt really make their story right.
[color=darkred]
Well if you do believe in their story.I *might* did wrong.
But it was a gift.I dont think buyng someone else a gift in U.S is
illegal.
And nobody really discovered any mistakes.
Just somebody else-not somebody emails registered as domain
holder-asked for not charging for next year.
And they just said nobody charged you it might have been mistake and so
on.....
Anyway,[color=darkred]
i didnt screw up at first place,but truly i do believe i screwed up
badly by doing that BBB complain.
I have had no experience with BBB before and didnt think it could make
thing worser than what they are now.
SO i admit.
[color=darkred]
I didnt get these.Maybe you misunderstood me.I did have a valid email
address.
Thanks Jerry for trying to help.
So i think my advice now apart from "not doing bussines with gkg" is
never ever fill any complaints,anywhere.
regards
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
roozbeh <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> ...
> So i think my advice now apart
> from "not doing bussines with
> gkg" is
> never ever fill any
> complaints,anywhere.
hosting etc? no, ferchrissake don't complain about anyone who can disrupt
your business - ever. you have to take it on the chin till you can effect
an exit strategy.
of course, companies that encourage their clients to actually speak to
them rather than hiding behind automation have a head-start in that issues
rarely get so far out of control.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Then there's the time involved talking to the person who owned the card,
> actually reversing the charges, restricting the domain, charging the
> domain fee and extra $15.00 when he changed his mind... The list goes on
> and on.
All of which is fine. I'm not questioning the merchant's right to recoup
their costs in a situation like this. I'm just questioning why it should
cost the OP. I do still believe $200 is way out of line. How much does GKG
pay its tech support reps per hour? (Rhetorical question; I don't need or
want an answer.) $15 is a lot more tolerable in this situation, but it's NOT
the OP's fault his buddy was stupid.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>
>
> All of which is fine. I'm not questioning the merchant's right to recoup
> their costs in a situation like this. I'm just questioning why it should
> cost the OP. I do still believe $200 is way out of line. How much does
> GKG pay its tech support reps per hour? (Rhetorical question; I don't
> need or want an answer.) $15 is a lot more tolerable in this situation,
> but it's NOT the OP's fault his buddy was stupid.
>
And how much time did it take to resolve the BBB complaint? And what
about them being up front and telling customers a screwup would cost
them $200. And so on, and so on.
BTW - how much they pay their tech support reps is immaterial. My
payroll is only a small portion of the cost of running my business.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-24, 7:00 pm |
| As far as i know from BBB; they've just forwarded my email to them.
This is their first step and after a week or two when no response
happens or i dont put file in closed mode,then they will investigate
further!
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-24, 7:01 pm |
| roozbeh wrote:
> As far as i know from BBB; they've just forwarded my email to them.
> This is their first step and after a week or two when no response
> happens or i dont put file in closed mode,then they will investigate
> further!
>
No, I see you don't know a lot about the BBB. There's a lot more to it
than that.
Yes, the complaint is forwarded to the company involved. But then the
company must investigate and respond to the complaint if it feels the
complaint was invalid. And this complaint and its resolution remains on
the BBB's records. It all takes time and resources.
Of course, if the complaint is valid, that takes even more resources to
resolve to the BBB's satisfaction.
You really need to understand the results of your actions before taking
them!
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-24, 7:01 pm |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> And how much time did it take to resolve the BBB complaint?
How much time would it have taken to properly investigate the fraud
complaint in the first place?
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-24, 7:01 pm |
| On 24 Dec 2005 02:15:32 -0800, "roozbeh" <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> posted
something that included:
>And besides i didnt agreed on my service provider privacy,but they have
>agreed on costumer privacy!
No, they haven't. In fact, it's the exact opposite. They are
contractually required by ICANN to publish the name and contact
information for any domain name that is registered.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Duende 2005-12-24, 10:18 pm |
| On 24 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> They are
> contractually required by ICANN to publish the name and contact
> information for any domain name that is registered.
Not here they arn't.
--
D?
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-24, 10:18 pm |
| On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 00:24:04 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
something that included:
>On 24 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
[color=darkred]
>Not here they arn't.
What do you mean by "here"?
On planet Earth, all registrars derive their authority from the
Internet Corporation for Assigned Numbers and Names, and section 3.3.1
of the contract for registrars specifies "At its expense, Registrar
shall provide an interactive web page and a port 43 Whois service
providing free public query-based access to up-to-date (i.e., updated
at least daily) data concerning all active Registered Names sponsored
by Registrar for each TLD in which it is accredited. The data
accessible shall consist of elements that are designated from time to
time according to an ICANN adopted specification or policy."
If you live on another planet, and aren't talking about the internet
that exists on this planet, you might have a point.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-25, 3:15 am |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>
>
> How much time would it have taken to properly investigate the fraud
> complaint in the first place?
>
The card owner claimed it was fraudulent. What more investigation can
you do? Send a couple of thugs out to beat a confession out of him?
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-25, 3:17 am |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> The card owner claimed it was fraudulent. What more investigation can
> you do? Send a couple of thugs out to beat a confession out of him?
No.
A good example: an ISP I used to work for had a problem customer who was
receiving dialup service from the ISP. He wasn't happy with the service and
disputed the charge one month. We simply said "he's full of shit"[0] and
provided RADIUS logs showing the idiot had successfully dialed in many times
during the month in question, and the bank not only didn't charge us back,
they re-billed the charge to the idiot's credit card, since we'd provide
proof that it was legitimate.
[0] Not necessarily those exact words.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Duende 2005-12-25, 3:17 am |
| On 24 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
>
>
> What do you mean by "here"?
AWW
--
D?
| |
| roozbeh 2005-12-25, 6:14 am |
| So why for example namecheap that i have some account there allowed me
to hide my email address?
| |
| William Tasso 2005-12-25, 6:23 pm |
| Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster
From the safety of the http://groups.google.com cafeteria
roozbeh <roozbehid@XXXXXXXXXX> said:
> So why for example namecheap that i have some account there allowed me
> to hide my email address?
dunno, never used them - I guess they take responsibility for enquiries
regarding the domain and its [ab]use.
--
William Tasso
Save the drama
for your Mama.
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-25, 6:23 pm |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>
>
> No.
>
> A good example: an ISP I used to work for had a problem customer who was
> receiving dialup service from the ISP. He wasn't happy with the service
> and disputed the charge one month. We simply said "he's full of shit"[0]
> and provided RADIUS logs showing the idiot had successfully dialed in
> many times during the month in question, and the bank not only didn't
> charge us back, they re-billed the charge to the idiot's credit card,
> since we'd provide proof that it was legitimate.
>
>
> [0] Not necessarily those exact words.
>
>
And what does that have to do with this discussion? Completely unrelated.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
|
|
| Paul Ding 2005-12-25, 6:24 pm |
| On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 20:28:36 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
something that included:
>Godaddy, iPower & 1and1 also offer privacy.
That's proxy registration. The domain is registered in the name of
someone else, with the understanding that you get to use it.
Sorta like a doctor putting his house in your girlfriend's name, so
nobody can take it away from him in a malpractice suit. Unfortunately,
if his girlfriend gets pizzed off, he can lose it *that* way.
Proxy registration makes sense for personal websites belonging to
women who are afraid of stalkers. There are certain other situations
where the owners of personal websites might benefit from proxy
registration. If you have a valuable domain name, though, you really
ought to have it in your own name. If GM can file bankruptcy, a proxy
registrar can file bankruptcy, too, and if that happens, then the
domain name is up for sale to the highest bidder.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Duende 2005-12-25, 10:31 pm |
| Organization: ?
Message-ID: <Xns97379D0A6EF0CHi@207.115.17.102>
User-Agent: Xnews/06.08.25
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Face: "Jl-4CM=;?2'nvlHoVL0zh!7@V'dN_YUY&4va.j_YZ*i8a4%"/51f;w`!5b&Xa$S2AJC|u@RE*@jW"r}}9Gs4+`~~5#8A54Qotpgl<=1#EOBniA7CNrLqUb11L[5`J=U<Mn=(tWN<hf`T)Nj$P1s7u6?k%rqb/tb;)h~;zLK|"7\p(!+'W#-ST21/$AB[[Ah}x!*p"8f'-l&_Od,5Qfc")xaIAl;&&Y,q@~0F}@(Gb
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.126.10.207
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr25.news.prodigy.net 1135553160 ST000 68.126.10.207 (Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:26:00 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:26:00 EST
X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SVGZBTQBFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRJVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:26:00 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.www.webmaster:464496
On 25 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 20:28:36 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
> something that included:
>
>
> That's proxy registration. The domain is registered in the name of
> someone else, with the understanding that you get to use it.
>
> Sorta like a doctor putting his house in your girlfriend's name, so
> nobody can take it away from him in a malpractice suit. Unfortunately,
> if his girlfriend gets pizzed off, he can lose it *that* way.
>
> Proxy registration makes sense for personal websites belonging to
> women who are afraid of stalkers. There are certain other situations
> where the owners of personal websites might benefit from proxy
> registration. If you have a valuable domain name, though, you really
> ought to have it in your own name. If GM can file bankruptcy, a proxy
> registrar can file bankruptcy, too, and if that happens, then the
> domain name is up for sale to the highest bidder.
>
So whats your point?
--
D?
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-25, 10:31 pm |
| On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:26:00 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
something that included:
>So whats your point?
The domain owner's name and contact information is *always* listed. If
you have a proxy register your domain for you, IT ISN'T YOURS.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Duende 2005-12-26, 3:20 am |
| On 25 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:26:00 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
> something that included:
>
>
> The domain owner's name and contact information is *always* listed. If
> you have a proxy register your domain for you, IT ISN'T YOURS.
>
Yes it is.
--
D?
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-26, 6:52 pm |
| Duende wrote:
> Godaddy, iPower & 1and1 also offer privacy.
The privacy services show your address/phone as that of the registrar,
typically. It's a real, usable address, one that can be used to subpoena the
registrar if necessary. Much different from just putting invalid info into
the registration.
Lots of registrars do it these days.
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Steve Sobol 2005-12-26, 6:52 pm |
| Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> And what does that have to do with this discussion? Completely unrelated.
My argument is that if GKG got charged back, with no recourse, they need to
find a processor that won't screw them like that. I've made that point
several times during this discussion, on the assumption that that's what
happened to GKG regarding the original poster's purchase (it's a logical
assumption, and I've seen nothing posted by GKG to refute that assumption).
--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-26, 6:53 pm |
| On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 04:07:40 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
something that included:
>On 25 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>Yes it is.
You really ought not be spreading misinformation. Legally, the domain
belongs to the registrant. The registrant has agreed to allow you to
use the domain - but if push comes to shove, the domain name may be
sold at auction to satify the debts of the proxy.
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Duende 2005-12-26, 10:46 pm |
| On 26 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 04:07:40 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
> something that included:
>
>
>
>
> You really ought not be spreading misinformation. Legally, the domain
> belongs to the registrant. The registrant has agreed to allow you to
> use the domain - but if push comes to shove, the domain name may be
> sold at auction to satify the debts of the proxy.
>
>
Why is my proxy in debt?
--
D?
| |
| Jerry Stuckle 2005-12-26, 10:47 pm |
| Steve Sobol wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>
>
> My argument is that if GKG got charged back, with no recourse, they need
> to find a processor that won't screw them like that. I've made that
> point several times during this discussion, on the assumption that
> that's what happened to GKG regarding the original poster's purchase
> (it's a logical assumption, and I've seen nothing posted by GKG to
> refute that assumption).
>
What's to argue? The proper owner of the card indicated he did not
recognize the charge as one he had made. Good reason - he didn't make
the charge.
The credit card company had every right to reverse the charge. And the
processor had the choice to absorb the charge, or charge GKG back.
It isn't the processor which initiates the chargeback. It's the company
who issued the credit card to the holder.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
| |
| Paul Ding 2005-12-27, 7:03 pm |
| On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:40:27 GMT, Duende <myusenet@sify.com> posted
something that included:
[color=darkred]
>Why is my proxy in debt?
Your proxy is owned by your registrar, right?
When Bob Parsons buys a 30-second GoDaddy superbowl ad for $2 million,
how many domain registrations do you suppose he sells?
It's very unlikely that he's spending as little as $10 in advertising
to sell a $7.95 COM domain. It's probably closer to $15.
And then he has to pay $6.25 of that $7.95 to Verisign, for running
the COM registry database and TLD nameservers.
He gets more than $7.95 from the average customer, because he's
selling proxy registrations and hosting, but he's still losing money
on every new customer.
Why is Bob deliberately losing money on every new registration? It's
not that he'd dumb. It's because he expects that customer to renew
next year, and the year after and the year after that. United Online
does the same thing when they spend $314 to acquire new NetZero
customers at $9.95/month.
As a general rule, growing companies acquire debt, and the faster they
grow, the more debt they accumulate.
So, tell me. Have you ever seen a financial statement for your proxy?
--
If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
How come nobody can itemize them?
And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
| |
| Duende 2005-12-27, 7:04 pm |
| On 27 Dec 2005 Paul Ding wrote in alt.www.webmaster
>
> So, tell me. Have you ever seen a financial statement for your proxy?
I haven't even seem a proxy yet.
--
D?
|
|
|
| | Copyright 2003 - 2008 forum4designers.com Software forum Computer Hardware reviews |
|