VRML - VRML/X3D chat systems?

Author

VRML/X3D chat systems?

Pacific Dragon

2005-12-16, 7:56 pm

I use to visit Blaxxun's Chat system periodically in 2002-2004, but This
year it seems to have been particularly very dead and as such
subconsciously drifted away for much of this year until I paid another
visit to Blaxxun's CCPro chat system last month,

The last time I managed to logon, I found it was unusually dead
compared to the preceding years around the same time (November). Has
anyone noticed this trend of gradual decline? There was also *rumours*
floating around suggesting that Blaxxun's chat system could indeed be
pulled at that time.

When I attempted to pay another visit earlier this week, I couldn't
connect and again today, I still couldn't connect. I'm not sure
what has happened but has Bitmanagement finally pulled the plug on
Blaxxun's Chat system?

If this is the case, Does anyone know of any other 3D chat systems similar
to that of Blaxxun's concept where a user can just plug in his own
VRML/X3D world into a chat system and is much busier than Blaxxun chat?

....OR has everyone gone to Secondlife and there.com now?

Russ

2005-12-17, 6:57 pm

First, it's info on other chat systems then rant and roll :)

http://www.vr4alll.net ( brush up on your French :)
http://www.vrmlworld.net It's still up, but development seems to have
halted.

Both of the above are very similar systems that rely on blaxxun's js
EAI proprietory calls and are more stable than blaxxun's built-in
chat client.
There is also my own work on Deep Matix the older Java based EAI mu
system.

Our site:
http://www.deepmatrix.org (seems to be down at the time of this posting
though)
There are two online examples:
http://www.cyworx.com ( the chat link near top of page)
and
http://www.sevenemeraldtablets.net/...TMLPortal1.html
type in anything for a password. ( down at this posting as well, cuz
its on same
server as deepmatrix.org )

You can also try http://www.vrspace.org, another very cool Java based
EAI client system.

>...OR has everyone gone to Secondlife and there.com now?

Probably.
I am a long time blaxxun user myself. IMHO blaxxun VRML chat is
dead for a couple of reasons.

1. The Contact and I.E. 6 don't play nice anymore in multi-user mode
and I.E. 6 constantly crashes. In Cybertown for instance, the majority
of people spend their time in 2D. It seems I.E. 6 users have to
download and install some third party software called "Crazy Browser"
that uses the I.E. engine and doesn't crash with Contact in chat. - a
cyber-folk remedy, if ever there was one. This seems to be a end
user-client problem, so Blaxxun can improve their server all they like
( at least that is the claim if you visit www.blaxxun.com ) But what's
the point if the chat client crashes people - or forces them to
download and install one more thing beyond the plugin to be stable?
Seems even the latest bxx community server "Jewel of Indra" isn't
afraid to have a direct link to the Crazy Browser site.
2. VRML in those chats is little more than window dressing for a yak
box.There is very little interactivity and the majority of users seem
to make very little use of the games that are available. It might as
well be Yahoo. Case in point- blaxxun community servers have a
capability for shared events in the back pack objects. Some examples of
those - a laptop, lava lamp, flower and watering can- are distributed
by blaxxun in their server package, but to find other examples made by
users is rare though not impossible. I can't think of any VRML code
more absurd than the single-user-only games that show up in the
community server malls!
That's only half the rant though, because the blaxxun 3D MU client has
a bug in it so shared back pack objects stand a good chance of not
working correctly if the users have different types of internet
connections! There is a work-around for this, but honestly no one seems
to care or be interested, since it requires the H-word ( hand coding
-shudder ) and the majority of content builders are stuck in Spazz mode
so VRML remains limply draped over someone's yak box. That's what
happens when there is an emphasis on pretty polygons over
interactivity.

tc
Russ Kinter

fabricator

2005-12-21, 7:18 am

The server was down due to Blaxxun updating the server software. They
have warned people that commercial usage of the free chat server is
something they want to avoid people doing.

Yes some of the people have moved on to secondlife or there.com. The
two outages in the past few months don't help much either.

2005-12-30, 6:42 pm

I have been told that shared event objects do not work in Cybertown. Many a
creator there has tried to make them. If you know the work around, please
share.

As far as it might as well being Yahoo... Cybertown is free from the a/s/l
nonsense you will be harassed with at Yahoo. And it has a great group of
people you can really get to know. Not like in other huge communities where
you are lucky if you see the same person twice.

And thank god it has a 2d alternative for chat. Places like Secondlife are
glitchy for many also, and there are no second choices there.

CM

"Russ" <Pyth7@comcast.net> wrote in message

> 2. VRML in those chats is little more than window dressing for a yak
box.There is very little interactivity and the majority of users seem to
make very little use of the games that are available. It might as well be
Yahoo. Case in point- blaxxun community servers have a capability for shared
events in the back pack objects. Some examples of those - a laptop, lava
lamp, flower and watering can- are distributed by blaxxun in their server
package, but to find other examples made by users is rare though not
impossible. I can't think of any VRML code more absurd than the
single-user-only games that show up in the community server malls!....."

tc
Russ Kinter

fabricator

2006-01-02, 3:18 am

The SharedObjectEvent system is just too finicky to be easily used. In
particular by the average object creator.

Firstly the server needs to include the shared event object process and
it needs to be enabled. Then the is the problem of certain firewalls
blocking the shared event.

The SharedObjectEvent node needs to be the FIRST node in the scene, not
a Group, light, WorldInfo etc. Then you are limited to one shared event
only.

If you want to have a dragable object linked to SharedObjectEvent you
need to write a small Script to filter the values so that it all runs
smoothly and that the sharedevent doesn't create a feedback loop with
the PlaneSensor.

If you want more than one even shared you need to write an even more
complicated Script to combine the values into a single string and send
that string as the sharedevent.

Basically what is needed is an actual program to add the SharedEvent
code to the object. Oh and some less wordy and more practical tutorials
from Blaxxun.

Russ

2006-01-02, 3:18 am

What you say is by and large true with some qualifications :)

>The SharedObjectEvent System is just too finicky to be easily used.

The SharedObjectEvent System as it exists is so buggy it is useless.

>Then the is the problem of certain firewalls blocking the shared event.

The firewall stopping shared events is a new one to me, but wouldn't
that mean bxx standard shared events
applied to a world ( like the lighting of a ct house ) would not work
either?
So a user would have to adjust his firewall settings to get maximum
enjoyment from his 3D experience?

>The SharedObjectEvent node needs to be the FIRST node in the scene, not
>a Group, light, WorldInfo etc. Then you are limited to one shared event
>only.

That is the correct instructions for the SharedObjectEvent Node
according to blaxxun developers all right.

However even when these instructions are followed it does not work
properly for all users. The problem
can be traced to the initialization period ( when a backpack object as
an inlined file is first loaded
by Contact from the scene graph ) It seems there is a problem for the
VRML browser to initialize the instance
of the SharedEventObject properly. ( Then again, maybe it is the
firewall issue you brought up? )
This isn't just my opinion BTW, but Rick Kimball's, who is far more
savy then myself :)
Rick tested and examined the problem in Oddessey.

>If you want more than one even shared you need to write an even more
>complicated Script to combine the values into a single string and send
>that string as the sharedevent.

This is only true with the original blaxxun backpack SharedObjectEvent
system. It is NOT
true for the workaround. Any number of shared events can be instanced
and used with
the workaround. I had three shared event fully-playable games
(Checkers, Go and Nine Men Morris)
that impliment this workaround in the Oddessey community three years
ago.
You will have to search the clubs and flea for them now.
I still have some in my Oddy backpack, but don't frequent Oddy enough
to make keeping a house with the objects
worth while.

The blaxxun developer's server versions can be found here with an added
Backgammon game:
( The house is not mine of course, but a default bxx community server
house I like because of its
gallery feel )

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Pyth7...ckpack_Objects/

Anticipating the criticism: "The blaxxun developer server has no
ability to impliment backpack objects"
I will reply: "An Inline Node is an Inline Node. Backpack objects exist
in a screen graph as Inline Nodes.
All the games in the above url exist as Inline Nodes, so the idea and
code is basically the same.
Bxx JS EAI calls allow the Inline to talk to the main world."

I use the single string in my work around simply because I put so much
work into it before I realized the SharedObjectEvent's uselessness.
Notice these games have more than one instance of SharedEvent Protos in
the P_S_LOCK events.

The workaround is simple in theory. The inlined object is just allowed
to fully load before its Shared Events
are added to the blaxxunzone, either when a user clicks a TouchSensor
or prehaps through
a TimeSensor. Blaxxun proprietory JS EAI calls are a necessity for this
workaround.
But honestly, a knowledge of these calls should not needed by an
backpack object builder!
Only a standardized set of work-around Protos furnished by the Blaxxun
community and the
simple abilities to copy'n paste, instance those Protos, connect
Routes, and a desire to move
beyond Spazz is all that is needed from an object maker.

The real problem goes far beyond this rather simple bug though, but
rather to both the attitude of
VRML builders in blaxxun communities and the owners of those
communities. There is simply too much
emphasis given to modeling and not enough to scripting and
"handcoding". This problem with backpack object
shared events has been going on since 1998/1999 and no one (to the best
of my knowledge) has seriously attempted
a workaround except myself.
Bxx communities simply do not do enough to encourage scripting and hand
coding!
If they do, why after seven years are builders still as much in the
dark on the subject
of shared events in bp objects as they were at the beginning of CT?

tc
Russ

Russ

2006-01-02, 6:21 am

>I have been told that shared event objects do not work in Cybertown.

It's not that they don't work, but are so buggy it isn't worth the
trouble.

>Many a creator there has tried to make them. If you know the work around, please
>share.

See my reply to fabricator general on this thread for the workaround.
However be aware that my workaround needs certain blaxxunzone methods
left out of the blaxxunzone used in a lot of CT houses.
That's not to say the workaround can't be modified to work with them
though,
but the best way is to simply give those houses the complete code.
That is something you will have to bring up with CT staff.
Please if you use/modify it, give me credit.

>As far as it might as well being Yahoo...
>Cybertown is free from the a/s/l nonsense you will be harassed with at Yahoo.

Yeah and it also "free" of basic Free Speech.

> And it has a great group of people you can really get to know.
>Not like in other huge communities where
>you are lucky if you see the same person twice.

yep

>And thank god it has a 2d alternative for chat.

Your use of the word "alternative" is an understatement if ever there
was one.
In reality it is the 3D that is "alternative" and 2D the main stay.
When you have a community leader that cannot go into 3D
yet is responsible for creating games, so that in turn all her games
are 2D based, the VRML 3D part of CT has simply become pedantic.

tc
Russ