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| Cecile Muller 2004-03-16, 4:30 pm |
| > You can see a preview of what the new Web3D web site will look like at
> http://www.web3d.org/index_new.html
Maybe it's just me but i tend to strongly dislike the "disappearance"
of the VRML documents from the Consortium's site...
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| Andrea 2004-03-17, 8:29 am |
| spam@wildpeaks.com (Cecile Muller) wrote in message news:<aff31ac6.0403161236.6fd20e03@posting.google.com>...
>
> Maybe it's just me but i tend to strongly dislike the "disappearance"
> of the VRML documents from the Consortium's site...
Wasn't it once called the VRML Consortium, why doesn't someone revive
the abandoned name and start a new VRML consortium?
VRML isn't dead, and it is widely supported, to try and sweep it under
the rug for something more corporately "palatable" is shortsighted.
VRML is web 3D.
If X3D really is the next VRML, why change the name?
Andrea
http://www.syntheticplanet.com
http://www.andrearogers.com
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| Eckhard M. J?ger 2004-03-17, 12:32 pm |
| Where is "The Annotated VRML 97 Reference" gone?
Why any menu starts with "X3D" thats the same mistake at the beginning
of web3d naming anything with vrml (comp.lang.vrml ; VRML-consortium
etc.).
So better start with Web3D that is independent and correct too.
About VRML-archives:
http://www.web3d.org/x3d/vrml/index.html <- What is this for a path?
that is very unclear and unlogic better something like
www.web3d.org
|- VRML
| |- ...
|- X3D
|- ...
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| Robert Lipman 2004-03-17, 2:33 pm |
| "Eckhard M. J?ger" wrote:
>
> Where is "The Annotated VRML 97 Reference" gone?
Just do a Google search. There are lots of copies online.
You can also find old web pages at the Internet Archive with the Wayback
Machine. Just enter a URL and you can get the old web3d.org pages.
--
Bob Lipman
http://cic.nist.gov/lipman/
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| Joerg Scheurich aka MUFTI 2004-03-17, 3:33 pm |
| > If X3D really is the next VRML, why change the name?
Cause the VRML consortium shocked the world with the announcement
"VRML is dead". They become a victim of their own bad marketing 8-(
so long
MUFTI
--
Aushilfsappart Anschluss
(Meldung Maxtron Maustreiber, Stichwort: auxillary)
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|
| yeah, and while your at it, why not start a new car company around the name
"Edsel"......
or a new computer company called "Amiga"
but you all will do what you like...
enjoy the hobby, 3d on the web as a hobby is great, ive run one of the first
and one of the largest sites. BUT for those who are professionals and have
clients and work in the world of markets. X3D as a media type is required.
VRML97 is an older, more limited format that ONLY has been successful as a
replacement for an even older "proprietary" DXF basic format. Its main
benefit, texture support for files to be transported to another rendering
application. Its success as "web3d" has been minor todate, and those who
still use it as such are finding themsleves fewer and fewer, with less and
less users.
larryr
founder- sfweb3d -2002-future
founder- nyvrmlsig-95-9
"Andrea" <rogers1987@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a4e42b5e.0403170347.98e635d@posting.google.com...
> spam@wildpeaks.com (Cecile Muller) wrote in message
news:<aff31ac6.0403161236.6fd20e03@posting.google.com>...
>
> Wasn't it once called the VRML Consortium, why doesn't someone revive
> the abandoned name and start a new VRML consortium?
>
> VRML isn't dead, and it is widely supported, to try and sweep it under
> the rug for something more corporately "palatable" is shortsighted.
> VRML is web 3D.
>
> If X3D really is the next VRML, why change the name?
> Andrea
> http://www.syntheticplanet.com
> http://www.andrearogers.com
| |
| Eckhard M. J?ger 2004-03-17, 9:30 pm |
| As i know only the web3d cons is allowed to host "The Annotated VRML
97 Reference" gone but not others. i had a copy on my site and must
delete it.
Naming and structure of new web3d site is a little bit stupid, why
such really nice items (TAV97R) should get lost? Have you ever seen on
the W3C site they deleted such infos or any item is named with HTML?
Hey VRML is the past don't ignore that! What about creating a menu
like:
Home, X3D Documentation, VRML Documentation, Web3D Markets, News &
Evens, Membership and Contact. So it will take a little bit when x3d
taking the lead oer vrml because not enough viewers and tools. I wrote
several eMails to 3d software companies and ask them what about
supporting X3D. Most of them did not recognized that there is an
successor of VRML on the way.
| |
| Cecile Muller 2004-03-17, 10:29 pm |
| > > Where is "The Annotated VRML 97 Reference" gone?
> Just do a Google search. There are lots of copies online.
But one shouldn't need a copy as it should be on that site. But maybe
it's just not back yet as it's being under construction too.
| |
| Cecile Muller 2004-03-18, 12:28 am |
| > enjoy the hobby, 3d on the web as a hobby is great, ive run one of the first
> and one of the largest sites. BUT for those who are professionals and have
> clients and work in the world of markets. X3D as a media type is required.
Clients that i've seen so far only care about the implementation time,
price, and on how many computer it can work. As long as it does what
they want, it could come from Mars that it would be the same. The end
result is more important to them than the actual technology. Plus, not
everyone uses VRML for using it on the web.
| |
|
| thats what i said:) vrml is not being used on the web as a 3d media type in
any number worth mentioning...
therefore,,, a professional organization named WEB3D.org should not be
expected to place VRML high on its list of communicated agenda. Which was
the "question" brought up in this thread.
for ex " where is vrml tech docs? where is vrml on the hight level menu for
the new site.?" etc. From what Ive seen so far the new web3d.org site is
finally being constructed by those with marketing experience, not a loose
bunch or programmers.May it get only better with its marketing message as to
what web3d IS today and tommorrow, the only thing real money invests
in....the future, not the past.
and unlike your experience with clients, mine has found that those in the
media/communications/manufacturing areas..UNLIKE technical industry clients,
only go with the "accepted mass media type flow". and for the web thats been
html/or Flash. If it was about "results" only then the bubble/burst would
never have happened. with all those well thought out, properly oriented
clients for digital communications..:) and those that should have invested
in 3d games versus 2d flash cartoons to "be sticky" online and generate
profits, would have done so then.;)
larryr
sfweb3d
"Cecile Muller" <spam@wildpeaks.com> wrote in message
news:aff31ac6.0403171959.6f083a83@posting.google.com...
first[color=darkred]
have[color=darkred]
required.[color=darkred]
>
> Clients that i've seen so far only care about the implementation time,
> price, and on how many computer it can work. As long as it does what
> they want, it could come from Mars that it would be the same. The end
> result is more important to them than the actual technology. Plus, not
> everyone uses VRML for using it on the web.
| |
| Joerg Scheurich aka MUFTI 2004-03-19, 11:30 am |
| > About VRML-archives:
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/vrml/index.html <- What is this for a path?
> that is very unclear and unlogic better something like
> www.web3d.org
> |- VRML
> | |- ...
> |- X3D
> |- ...
You better should not had asked...
After
http://www.web3d.org/technicalinfo/...rml97/index.htm
and
http://www.web3d.org/x3d/spec/vrml/vrml97/index.htm
the VRML specification is now available as
http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/vrml/index.html
It looks like, web3d is playing hide and seak with us 8-(
Next week your idea will be used, so we have to update
or pointers not twice but third 8-(
I begin to ask myself, if this is really incompetence of a beginner ?
It isn't that difficult, to use a softlink/shortcut or even a simple
weblink...
Maybe it is a good idea, to update our documents to point to a working
copy of ISO/IEC standard 14772, till the responsible web3d people
learned to public reliable information 8-(
so long
MUFTI
--
Hinweis: Zwecks Ihre Datenbanksuchroutine am Versuchen zu
geöffnetem verhindern dieser Akten, des Rechtklickens die Akte
und "Save Target As..." downloaden.
von der U.S. Robotics Support Website
| |
| jake reid 2004-03-19, 12:31 pm |
| Hi Folks, I thin k the Web3D are just a bunch of chancers who have
elevated themselves beyond their thinking ability. Looks more like a
con shop trying to get the bigee`s to part with dosh. Then after
parting with their dosh get sold the strings to attach to themselves
so they can jump when Web3D seems to think this is the new way to
bullshit vmrl. I say bollocks to these plonkers who try to convert
something that already has great potential without watering it down to
compare with Flashy crap. I see some real smart ones use vrml in
museums not the web and some of the stuff blows the Web3D bullshitters
into orbit! VRML is great!
Jake the auld Grizzler
| |
| Joerg Scheurich aka MUFTI 2004-03-19, 1:34 pm |
| > Maybe it is a good idea, to update our documents to point to a working
> copy of ISO/IEC standard 14772, till the responsible web3d people
> learned to public reliable information 8-(
Hmm, maybe it is better idea to build a automatic solution for the problem:
Use some of this websearching engines to regulary search for the matching
URL/content and if it changes, update a public URL on a webserver.
Any interesting party can then use the URL of the webserver as a generic
jump point.
I can imagine, this way of "deep linking" is already used in other
scenarios. Has someone of us experience with something like this ?
so long
MUFTI
--
Hinweis: Zwecks Ihre Datenbanksuchroutine am Versuchen zu
geöffnetem verhindern dieser Akten, des Rechtklickens die Akte
und "Save Target As..." downloaden.
von der U.S. Robotics Support Website
| |
| Steve Cariglia 2004-03-20, 2:29 pm |
| Where are the archives for the mailing list(s)? Especially www-vrml?
web3d evidently doesn't find these archives worthwhile.. They should at least make them available for download..
The changeover hasn't been handled very well. I'd almost say it qualifies as a mistake that has to be overcome to bring in new
business. Why make enemies needlessly? VRML made some mistakes, but, man, it was new turf..
....
"Eckhard M. J?ger" <bart@neeneenee.de> wrote in message news:15525540.0403170826.3537fed4@posting.google.com...
> Where is "The Annotated VRML 97 Reference" gone?
>
> Why any menu starts with "X3D" thats the same mistake at the beginning
> of web3d naming anything with vrml (comp.lang.vrml ; VRML-consortium
> etc.).
> So better start with Web3D that is independent and correct too.
>
> About VRML-archives:
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/vrml/index.html <- What is this for a path?
>
> that is very unclear and unlogic better something like
>
> www.web3d.org
> |- VRML
> | |- ...
> |- X3D
> |- ...
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