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Author lights
Henry

2004-02-15, 4:28 am

This one is for those who develop and review VRML implementations and
specification.

Will (or can, perhaps does?) VRML support real time or pre-computed
lighting?

Real time lighting has progressed tremendously over the past few years. Both
real time and pre-computed lighting has been used in many computer games for
over a decade. Lightmaps (or shadow mapping) should be simple to implement
(of course, most commercial modelling software do not compute lightmaps for
export, as far as I'm aware). And advances have been made in real time
radiosity and soft-shadow calculations recently. I was hoping that VRML
could support more advanced real-time and pre-computed shadows.

My interest in VRML stems form architectural visualisation. I've used VRML
quite a bit (exp from 3ds mostly), but the reoccuring problem is the lack of
shadow support. Shadows is extremely important in visualisation, often under
appreciated by modellers, as is apparently in many VRML worlds that can be
found on the web or elsewhere. With today's graphics hardware, this should
be a doddle.

I've made a number of successful VRML worlds by manually "painting" shadows,
but obviously it's a totaly chore. This also means that you have to texture
map every single surface, particularly impossible to do if you're modelling
interiors, where there are many more surfaces.

In fact, this isn't so much a VRML problem, but VR problem in general. I've
done some work on Vega/Creator (high end sim), and creating real time shadow
is problematic (though possible), and pre-computed lighting doesn't work
terribly well either (using Vertex shading, crap!)

Further more, in terms of shading quality, current Phong shading no long
create satisfactory visualisations. Can VRML currently support other more
advanced mode of shading? (this has nothing to with shadows, just a random
thought.)

Thanks
Henry
www.3thirteen.co.uk
staff.bath.ac.uk/abshhkc


Eckhard M. J?ger

2004-02-15, 6:29 pm

Hello Henry,
in VRML or X3D you have different type of lights:
* DirectionalLight
* PointLight
* SpotLight
http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...h2-26.htm#2.6.6
and a headlight:
http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...ual/ch3-329.htm

And for some vrml plugins and all X3D plugins supporting multitexuring (lighmaps):
Cortona VRML
http://www.parallelgraphics.com/dev...roducts/cortona

Contact VRML/ X3D
http://www.bitmanagement.de/develop...labs/index.html
http://developer.blaxxun.com/doc/3d...s2.html#1045782

and any X3D plugins like Contact, Octagon, Flux and Venues.

About X3D:
http://www.web3d.org/fs_specifications.htm
http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d...3dTooltips.html (short)

Karamba!

::Bart::VRMLsuck
http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/
http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/forum/
Henry

2004-02-16, 12:29 pm

Cool. Thanks for the infor.

I presume thta some of these capabiltiies, such as multitexturing come from
x3d rather than VRML. I wasn't aware than VRML can do so much...





"Eckhard M. J?ger" <bart@neeneenee.de> wrote in message
news:15525540.0402151408.1c7f57a7@posting.google.com...
> Hello Henry,
> in VRML or X3D you have different type of lights:
> * DirectionalLight
> * PointLight
> * SpotLight
> http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...h2-26.htm#2.6.6
> and a headlight:
> http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...ual/ch3-329.htm
>
> And for some vrml plugins and all X3D plugins supporting multitexuring

(lighmaps):
> Cortona VRML
> http://www.parallelgraphics.com/dev...roducts/cortona
>
> Contact VRML/ X3D
> http://www.bitmanagement.de/develop...labs/index.html
> http://developer.blaxxun.com/doc/3d...s2.html#1045782
>
> and any X3D plugins like Contact, Octagon, Flux and Venues.
>
> About X3D:
> http://www.web3d.org/fs_specifications.htm
> http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d...3dTooltips.html (short)
>
> Karamba!
>
> ::Bart::VRMLsuck
> http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/
> http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/forum/



Henry

2004-02-16, 1:30 pm

Just having a browse at the web3d.org/x3d

I haven't found any indication that x3d supports real time shadow
generation? Can x3D handle this?

I did find the bit about multitexturing. Cool. Thanks again.


"Eckhard M. J?ger" <bart@neeneenee.de> wrote in message
news:15525540.0402151408.1c7f57a7@posting.google.com...
> Hello Henry,
> in VRML or X3D you have different type of lights:
> * DirectionalLight
> * PointLight
> * SpotLight
> http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...h2-26.htm#2.6.6
> and a headlight:
> http://www.web3d.org/resources/vrml...ual/ch3-329.htm
>
> And for some vrml plugins and all X3D plugins supporting multitexuring

(lighmaps):
> Cortona VRML
> http://www.parallelgraphics.com/dev...roducts/cortona
>
> Contact VRML/ X3D
> http://www.bitmanagement.de/develop...labs/index.html
> http://developer.blaxxun.com/doc/3d...s2.html#1045782
>
> and any X3D plugins like Contact, Octagon, Flux and Venues.
>
> About X3D:
> http://www.web3d.org/fs_specifications.htm
> http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d...3dTooltips.html (short)
>
> Karamba!
>
> ::Bart::VRMLsuck
> http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/
> http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/forum/



Eckhard M. J?ger

2004-02-16, 1:30 pm

About Realtime shadows, look at
http://www.blaxxun.com/developer/co...d/relnotes.html
and search for ShadowGroup . This works in Blaxxun Contact and in BS
Contact VRML/X3D.
Another way is using Octagon Player:
http://www.octaga.com/prod_octagonpl.html
http://www.octaga.com/prod_octagonplp.html

So BS Contact VRML/X3D and Octagon Player are X3D plugins.

Karamba!

::Bart::VRMLsuck
http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/
http://www.neeneenee.de/vrml/forum/
Joerg Scheurich aka MUFTI

2004-02-18, 8:28 am

>Ipresumethtasomeofthesecapabiltiies,suchasmultitexturingcomefrom
>x3dratherthanVRML.Iwasn'tawarethanVRMLcandosomuch...


Someofthenewfeaturesinx3d(likemultitexturingandNURBS)arein
factpopularbrowserdependendextensionsofbrowserslikeblaxxuncc3d.
Inprinciple,itwouldbepossibletoimplementsomemultitexture
featuresinaPROTOwithascriptingnodeinstandardVRML97,butasfar
iknowit,nooneimplementedthisyet8-(

solong
MUFTI
--
DannPresse<tretenSieein>
(auseinemSoftwarehandbuch)
Joerg Scheurich aka MUFTI

2004-02-18, 11:31 am

> About Realtime shadows, look at

In some situations, there is also a simple way to fake realtime shadows
with standard VRML97. See

http://www.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de...ag/schatten.wrl

so long
MUFTI
--
Dann Presse <treten Sie ein>
           (aus einem Softwarehandbuch)
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