Stylesheets - Re: and how about blockquote? (was Re: text wrap around image: how

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Re: and how about blockquote? (was Re: text wrap around image: how

Zhang Weiwu

2007-01-27, 11:02 pm

于 Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:58:21 -0600，Ben C写到：

> On 2007-01-21, Jukka K. Korpela <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote:
[sinp][color=darkred]
>
> I thought of that too, but another problem there is that in the OP's
> example the blockquote finishes after the image, and its contents are
> expected to flow back to the left of the page under the image.

So, if this problem is basically not possible to solve completely using a
CSS method, I would try to avoid this kind of layout (e.g. float the image
to the right rather then to the left) as practical solution. But again
wouldn't this raise a question in W3C itself? Wouldn't be there any W3C
member propose something to adjust this? (a new "display: block-inline;"
concept?)

I suddenly realized why all the newspaper website float their news
pictures to the RIGHT when they often float image to the LEFT on printed
newspapers.

Zhang Weiwu

2007-01-27, 11:02 pm

于 Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:56:04 -0600，Ben C写到：
[snip]
>
> You also can't do columns in CSS. I mean proper columns, like in a
> printed newspaper, with the browser working out at what point text
> should start filling the next column.
>
> Personally I'm in favour of keeping CSS simple though because the box
> model already takes some time and effort to understand, and is also
> apparently already difficult to implement judging by the relatively
> large number of non-conformances we see even in non-Microsoft browsers.
> If you make something too difficult to understand the problems that
> causes can outweigh the advantages-- C++ might be considered an example
> of that (a design that was also encumbered by a requirement for
> historical compatibility).

I can fully understand your point of keeing CSS simple would be much
easier to implement, but I have a second non-technical worry. I suggest CSS
to be as compete as possible, define a lot of possibilities and even for
complicated issue like text-flow-through-columns. Reasons:
as we have saw in history, if standard didn't say how it should be done,
each vender might produce there own implementation and ends up nothing
compatible.

then some people might say it's good each vendor work on their own and
later let them compete for the best solution, and the standard group will
have a chance to adopt the best solution. The fact is they don't have such
chance. People will get the best solution from competition if the
competition of browser is a technical competition, but it's not, it's a
market competition. Suppose IE have a solution to the multi-column problem
and my current problem, but implemented it in a bad way, Firefox
implemented in a different but much better way, the result is likely
standard group take IE solution as standard because otherwise they are
making standards without vendor (=market) support. If CSS standard
group has a solution, that is a good reason to suggest other vendor start
on the right path, ah, yes, IE will still act on its own but at least they
are doing things on their own way with a little bit of pressure.

I am a bit surprised to find how much w3 adopt new ideas from IE even when
they didn't plan it that way. box-sizing is the case, writing-mode is
another. (writing-mode is not bad, I just thought maybe w3 was trying to
solve this problem start from DIR property).

P.S. other missing feature of CSS: no style setting for Asian style
emphasizes (there are two styles: one single big dot underneath each
ideaograph and one single circle underneath each ideograph), no style
setting for strong emphasize for ideographs (one circle around each
ideograph, sometimes require the circle to be in a different color or
shifted lower-left or lower-right a bit), no style for per-ideograph
background (this is sometimes useful for Asian users, to be able to set
same background for each ideograph without having to enclose each ideograph
with <span> ). I didn't mention there is a font-varient in Asian that
horizental strokes can lean upward, right? These features better make
their ways into CSS and let Firefox go ahead of IE to implement them. IE
is ABSOLUTELY NOT motivated to implement these features because they
already took asian market, there is nothing to motivate improvements.
(while in German 1/3 people use Firefox, in China should less then 1%)