This is Interesting: Free Magazines for Graphics designers and webmasters
Home > Archive > Stylesheets > November 2006 > Re: Firefox's Firebug ext giving me errors in my CSS
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Re: Firefox's Firebug ext giving me errors in my CSS
|
|
| Stephen Poley 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:46:48 -0500, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
>show of the 1950s.
Don't think that programme made it over this side of the Atlantic,
though I have more than once heard Americans use the phrase.
In terms of a web page I can't think of a useful application for setting
cursor shape. If one is writing an application front-end in Javascript
then it obviously can have uses. However the question then becomes why
it is useful to set the cursor in CSS rather than in Javascript.
--
Stephen Poley
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
| |
|
| Stan Brown wrote:
>
> Ah. Thank you.
>
>
> We have a bid of $32K. Anyone care to go to $16K?
I think that if I say yes, dorayme will try and do it for $8K..
> Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
> show of the 1950s.[1]
> [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047701/
Don't know that show (not only on the wrong side of the pond, but also
before my time), but we have similar shows here, so the idea of a
'so-many-dollars question' wasn't new to me :-)
> I would still like to know of any real-life
> application that actually benefits from changing cursors.
This is one example:
acronym,
span.explain{
cursor:help;
text-decoration:none;
border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
}
<span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
word]</span>
--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
| |
| Stephen Poley 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:53:54 +0100, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
>This is one example:
>
>acronym,
>span.explain{
> cursor:help;
> text-decoration:none;
> border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
>}
>
><span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
>word]</span>
Well, it could have been marginally useful in principle.
Opera users do get an indication of help coming a fraction before the
title itself comes up. Unfortunately the cursor change may tempt them to
click on the span, which in fact suppresses the title display, so the
cursor is actually counter-productive.
Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.
(As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)
--
Stephen Poley
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
| |
| Dr J R Stockton 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| In message <MPG.1fb8127b986e730998a7de@news.individual.net>, Sun, 5 Nov
2006 15:24:15, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> writes
>Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
>setting the cursor shape?
IMHO, for some sites it would be useful to be able to tell whether a
link goes to elsewhere on the page (#xyz), elsewhere on the same site
(page.htm), or to another site (http:// ...), without having to look
away from the link.
That might be done by more advanced CSS either underlining links with
dotted, dashed, or solid lines, or changing the cursor design.
The latter is approximated on one page of my site,
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.
And the home page (ditto) uses italics for same-page links.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)
| |
|
|
William Tasso wrote:
> http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
You may add here
cursor: not-allowed
Despite it's still in CSS3 (thus in "future hold") de facto it's
already implemented by all important browsers including FF and IE.
It is a great visual hint for not allowed/not supported operations
while hovering.
There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
still rather poor.
| |
|
| Stephen Poley wrote:
>
> Well, it could have been marginally useful in principle.
>
> Opera users do get an indication of help coming a fraction before the
> title itself comes up. Unfortunately the cursor change may tempt them to
> click on the span, which in fact suppresses the title display, so the
> cursor is actually counter-productive.
I think Opera users will soon get used to the idea that dotted/dashed
underline is different from straight underline, and doesn't indicate a
link ;-)
> Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
> produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.
>
> (As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)
Makes me wonder what versions you have.. I'm using FF on XP, and IE7,
6, 5.5 and 5.01. All give a question mark on the span I set
cursor:help for.
What about William's test page? Does that one not work for you either?
--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Now playing: Deep Purple - Fireball
| |
|
| Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
> one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
> grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
> same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.
So, I found an outbound link in the text, and am deducting that
'octothorpe' must mean what some refer to as a pound-sign. Just a
thought: This sign is usually used in HTML code for in-page links, so
to me as a web page author, it's counter intuitive. I think I might
have chosen some kind of arrow instead. Perhaps " >>> " ?
--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Now playing: Mirah - Stop and Think It Over
| |
| GreyWyvern 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| And lo, VK didst speak in
alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ng.stylesheets:
> There is also
> cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
> which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
> SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
> still rather poor.
It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#search - Orca Search: Full-featured
spider and site-search engine
| |
| William Tasso 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| Fleeing from the madness of the http://groups.google.com jungle
VK <schools_ring@yahoo.com> stumbled into
news:alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ing.stylesheets
and said:
>
> William Tasso wrote:
>
> You may add here
> cursor: not-allowed
> Despite it's still in CSS3 (thus in "future hold") de facto it's
> already implemented by all important browsers including FF and IE.
But not Opera it seems.
> There is also
> cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
> ...
> support besides IE is
> still rather poor.
right - done, thanks. Page updated.
--
William Tasso
http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
| |
| William Tasso 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| Fleeing from the madness of the GreyWyvern.com jungle
GreyWyvern <spam@greywyvern.com> stumbled into
news:alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ing.stylesheets
and said:
> And lo, VK didst speak in
> alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ng.stylesheets:
>
>
> It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
> browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
> image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
> viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
> viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.
Is that different from presenting a full page of plain text?
Oh well, one to watch.
--
William Tasso
http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
| |
|
| > > There is also
>
> It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
> browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
> image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
> viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
> viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.
I don't see it any more "dangerous" than
background-color: black;
color: black;
or
font-size: 4px;
or (to get really nasty) use IE's Matrix tranformation filter to show
the entire page mirrored and up side down. You tell me that the latter
will not break accessibility for sure :-)
There is a huge amount of ways in HTML/CSS to make a page so curved
that no one can use it. But how does it affect anyone besides the page
author who lost his potential audience?
| |
|
| > > cursor: not-allowed
>
> But not Opera it seems.
Alas... Neither 8.x nor even 9.0 From what I have on my test desk it is
proven to be supported by: Firefox 1.5, Internet Explorer 6.0, 7.0,
Netscape 8.0 in "IE mode" (but strangely enough not in "Mozilla mode").
>
> right - done, thanks. Page updated.
Actually it was my typo in there: despite *.ico files are also allowed
and working, more standard for this usage are *.cur files (like ones
for Windows cursors, if you have any .cur file it would be more
suitable).
It is supported by IE 6.0, 7.0 and Netscape 8.0 in "IE Mode"
| |
| William Tasso 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| Fleeing from the madness of the http://groups.google.com jungle
VK <schools_ring@yahoo.com> stumbled into
news:alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ing.stylesheets
and said:
>
> Actually it was my typo in there: despite *.ico files are also allowed
> and working, more standard for this usage are *.cur files (like ones
> for Windows cursors,
yes - saw that in the spec (yes, I did check <g> ), but ...
> if you have any .cur file it would be more
> suitable).
ahh - well it didn't occur to me, but of course there are many such files
on a windows box - so I've now altered the page to suit.
Once again - thanks.
--
William Tasso
http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
| |
| GreyWyvern 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| And lo, VK didst speak in
alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www....ng.stylesheets:
>
> I don't see it any more "dangerous" than
> background-color: black;
> color: black;
> or
> font-size: 4px;
> or (to get really nasty) use IE's Matrix tranformation filter to show
> the entire page mirrored and up side down. You tell me that the latter
> will not break accessibility for sure :-)
In all those cases, only the contents of the viewport are affected, and
mouse functionality is preserved. However, the mouse cursor itself is an
interface to the rest of your desktop, not only the web browser. Being
able to hide it will present a confounding challenge to most users
unfamiliar with desktop keyboard navigation.
You and I may not have much trouble, but consider the many users who will
have no idea what's going on when their mouse cursor disappears and does
not come back when they "jiggle" the mouse.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#search - Orca Search: Full-featured
spider and site-search engine
| |
| Stephen Poley 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:21:32 +0100, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
>Stephen Poley wrote:
>
>
>I think Opera users will soon get used to the idea that dotted/dashed
>underline is different from straight underline, and doesn't indicate a
>link ;-)
Well, now I've kicked Firefox and IE into life - they do the same thing
(apart, that is, from IE not actually being able to display a dashed
bottom border ...)
>
>
>Makes me wonder what versions you have.. I'm using FF on XP, and IE7,
>6, 5.5 and 5.01. All give a question mark on the span I set
>cursor:help for.
Hmm ... that gave me an "interesting" half hour trying to work out what
on earth was going on. The validators reported no errors in my page. The
doctype was one that should trigger standards mode. Eventually I
discovered that I had typed <STYLE type="test/css">
Opera didn't object, but the other two browsers did (correctly, I
think).
--
Stephen Poley
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
| |
| Dr J R Stockton 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| In message <wsqfyuozau7s.18zgpte2ikge0$.dlg@40tude.net>, Mon, 6 Nov 2006
20:26:46, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> writes
>Dr J R Stockton wrote:
>
>
>So, I found an outbound link in the text, and am deducting that
>'octothorpe' must mean what some refer to as a pound-sign.
Only those on the wrong side of the Atlantic, surely? A true pound sign
looks like (I hope) "£" and refers to the UK currency. The common UK
term for "octothorpe" is "hash".
> Just a
>thought: This sign is usually used in HTML code for in-page links, so
>to me as a web page author, it's counter intuitive. I think I might
>have chosen some kind of arrow instead. Perhaps " >>> " ?
I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
cuff increases with the distance of the link.
If the cursor proper were to change, the number of extended fingers
could be used to signify, or the back of the hand could be marked. But
if implemented generally I'd choose to modulate the underline.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6
<URL:http://www.jibbering.com/faq/>? JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang.javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htm> jscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
| |
|
| Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> In message <wsqfyuozau7s.18zgpte2ikge0$.dlg@40tude.net>, Mon, 6 Nov 2006
> 20:26:46, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> writes
>
> Only those on the wrong side of the Atlantic, surely?
Probably - I haven't always kept track of who used which word though
:-)
> A true pound sign
> looks like (I hope) "£" and refers to the UK currency. The common UK
> term for "octothorpe" is "hash".
Yup, that's another term for that symbol.
>
> I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
> cuff increases with the distance of the link.
I can see your logic now that you explained it, but as a visitor it
isn't obvious to me.
--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
| |
|
| In article <mppuk29qo7l3tgs04r4o8iqd0l62k8u9md@4ax.com>,
sbpoleySpicedHamTrap@xs4all.nl says...
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:53:54 +0100, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> wrote:
>
>
[color=darkred]
> Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
> produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.
>
SeaMonkey 1.0.1, Firefox 1.5, IE6, IE7b3 all display the help cursor for
me (XP Home SP2)
> (As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)
ummm... IE5.5 works too. What browser versions have you got??
>
I use it for abbr and acronym.
| |
|
|
GreyWyvern wrote:
> In all those cases, only the contents of the viewport are affected, and
> mouse functionality is preserved. However, the mouse cursor itself is an
> interface to the rest of your desktop, not only the web browser.
You seem have a wrong idea about cursor styling: irrelevant to what is
used (a predefined style or a url() image) it applies to the current
Web document only, so any "hastiness" is limited by the browser window
borders.
You must be confusing the issue with an unfamous network of spyware
companies ganging around the CoolWebSearch. One of "candies" they offer
to incline you to install their spyware is a set of nifty cursors and
icons which you can handle from your browser but which work for all
other applications. This issue is irrelvant though to the styling or to
the web-development as such because we have here a .exe file execution
and 3rd party software installation.
| |
| Dr J R Stockton 2006-11-19, 7:35 pm |
| In message <jq2pm04ddyvg.z3vh8r2h8hpq$.dlg@40tude.net>, Tue, 7 Nov 2006
23:00:08, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> writes
>
>I can see your logic now that you explained it, but as a visitor it
>isn't obvious to me.
Demonstration now provided, before first <H2>.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)
| |
|
| Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> In message <jq2pm04ddyvg.z3vh8r2h8hpq$.dlg@40tude.net>, Tue, 7 Nov 2006
> 23:00:08, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl> writes
>
> Demonstration now provided, before first <H2>.
:-)
--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
| |
|
|
|
| | Copyright 2003 - 2008 forum4designers.com Software forum Computer Hardware reviews |
|