Stylesheets - Regarding: does a floated element require a fixed width to work?

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Regarding: does a floated element require a fixed width to work?

The Master

2004-07-26, 7:16 pm

>>does a floated element require a fixed width to work?
>It does if the UA adheres to CSS 2.0 rules, not if it adheres to CSS
2.1
>float rules (or if it's IE).

So does that mean nn6, moz1.0, moz1.4, Firefox, Opera (versions 4 to
6), and Safari 1.2 and IE have all implimented CSS 2 Float rules
wrong? and the first one to get it right is Opera 7.5?

Or is that the reason it was changed in CSS 2.1 because so many
browsers got it wrong?

sincerely,
The Master

Brian

2004-07-26, 11:16 pm

The Master wrote:

>
> So does that mean nn6, moz1.0, moz1.4, Firefox, Opera (versions 4
> to 6), and Safari 1.2 and IE have all implimented CSS 2 Float rules
> wrong? and the first one to get it right is Opera 7.5?

The first one to get it right was IE 5.x/Mac. That browser was the
first attempt at standards conformance AIUI. I'm suprised to hear that
O7.5 does this; it was not the behavior of O7.2.

> Or is that the reason it was changed in CSS 2.1 because so many
> browsers got it wrong?

The latter. IE 5.x/Mac followed the rule, and did not shrink the width
of floated elements. Most other browsers assigned the width of a
floated element as only large enough to fit the content. CSS 2.1
simply permitted that behavior.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

Nick Theodorakis

2004-07-26, 11:16 pm

On 26 Jul 2004 14:46:19 -0700, tgross@goldhil.com (The Master) wrote:

>2.1
>
>So does that mean nn6, moz1.0, moz1.4, Firefox, Opera (versions 4 to
>6), and Safari 1.2 and IE have all implimented CSS 2 Float rules
>wrong? and the first one to get it right is Opera 7.5?
>

ISTR that IE5 for the Mac (which is a completely different browser
than IE5 on Win, BTW) also requires widths for floats.

>Or is that the reason it was changed in CSS 2.1 because so many
>browsers got it wrong?
>

It would have been enough, no doubt, if just one *particular* browser
(or, "operating system system component" as Alan likes to say) gets it
wrong.

Nick

>sincerely,
> The Master

--
Nick Theodorakis
nick_theodorakis@hotmail.com
contact form:
http://theodorakis.net/contact.html

Spartanicus

2004-07-27, 7:15 am

tgross@goldhil.com (The Master) wrote:

Kindly use the follow up mechanism when replying, don't start a new
thread.

>
>So does that mean nn6, moz1.0, moz1.4, Firefox, Opera (versions 4 to
>6), and Safari 1.2 and IE have all implimented CSS 2 Float rules
>wrong? and the first one to get it right is Opera 7.5?

All UAs have float bugs (the result of ridiculously complex CSS float
rules).

>Or is that the reason it was changed in CSS 2.1 because so many
>browsers got it wrong?

There are advantages to both methods:

1) Require a specified fixed width (CSS 2.0): UAs can layout a page
before any dependencies have downloaded.
2) Use a "shrink to fit" method (CSS 2.1): allows floating of content of
pre undetermined size.

In practice the advantage of (2) outweighs the disadvantage of (1) imo.

Bottom line: specify a width for floats when you can.

--
Spartanicus

The Master

2004-07-27, 12:17 pm

> Kindly use the follow up mechanism when replying, don't start a new
> thread.

Do you know of a news server that is free that allows Reading and
Posting? Cause currently I use freenews.netfront.net which only allows
you to read the post then google to reply. and unless the post I'm
replying to has shown up in google it wont let you use reply function.

Nick Theodorakis <nick_theodorakis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>ISTR that IE5 for the Mac (which is a completely different browser
>than IE5 on Win, BTW) also requires widths for floats.

Well then its broken on ie5mac too because that section works without
a specified width.

Like I said the only reason I'm asking is because Opera 7.5 is the
only that seems to be falling out of rank compared to all the other
browsers I tested it on. here are the browsers I tested on again:

Ie5.0, ie5.5, ie6.0, ie5.2mac, firefox mac/pc, opera ver 4-6, nn6x,
moz1.0, moz1.4, safari 1.2 and Opera 7.5 (and opera 7.5 is the only
one that brakes unless I give it a specified width).

So I guess my final question is there a way to target only Opera 7.5
so I can give it its precious width, and yet have it be ignored by all
the other browsers?

Or is there another way some one can suggest that I can change in the
HTML and CSS to get the same Idea Across I was attempting to do with
using UL and Sub UL, to show where one was located if they didn't have
style sheets?

Thanks,
The Master

P.S. is there a website that clearly documents every browser that gets
some part of the specification wrong? The reason ask I would have
never known to ask this question if Opera 7.5 hadn't fallen out of
rank. So I'm curious as to other css I've written if It was just by
luck that my invalid code is working in all the browsers I've tested
in. Granted that's assuming all my CSS has some invalid code, but I
would like to know so I can fix my code as well as make sure that
going forward I don't write code that doesn't follow the
specifications.

would anyon be willing to look at my css code for this site and point
out where I wrote bad code?

http://www.goldhilmedia.com/showbug/css/gl.css
http://www.goldhilmedia.com/showbug/css/gln.css
http://www.goldhilmedia.com/showbug/css/ie5mac.css

The Master

2004-07-27, 12:17 pm

The Master

2004-07-27, 12:17 pm

oops I ment to say:

Do you know of a news server that is free that allows Reading and
Posting? Currently I use freenews.netfront.net which only allows you
to read the post, I then use google to reply. and unless the post I'm
replying to has shown up in google it wont let you use the reply
syntax.

Spartanicus

2004-07-27, 7:17 pm

tgross@goldhil.com (The Master) wrote:

>So I guess my final question is there a way to target only Opera 7.5
>so I can give it its precious width, and yet have it be ignored by all
>the other browsers?

Opera 7.x uses the CSS 2.1 shrink to fit method for floats, there should
be no need to specify a width.

Validate your css, if that doesn't help make a minimized test case for
us to look at (I for one don't like fixing someone's commercial work if
it's dumped in it's entirety).

--
Spartanicus

Spartanicus

2004-07-27, 7:17 pm

tgross@goldhil.com (The Master) wrote:

>Do you know of a news server that is free that allows Reading and
>Posting?

news.individual.net

Note that it can take a while (+/- 1 week) to get your access code.

--
Spartanicus

Neal

2004-07-27, 7:17 pm

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:31:29 +0100, Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> tgross@goldhil.com (The Master) wrote:
>
>
> news.individual.net
>
> Note that it can take a while (+/- 1 week) to get your access code.
>

And no binaries. But well worth it, very dependable.