Site Ratings & Reviews - Font size issues. Opinions please.

Author

Font size issues. Opinions please.

Andrew D

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

I have been juggling font sizes and styles on my new website but am coming
up against the problem of different browsers displaying the text
differently, depending on the default fonst size set in the browser prefs.

Obviously there's no way I can control other people's browser prefs but is
there an accepted default font and size for paragraph text?

My site can be viewed at:
http://members.westnet.com.au./andydolphin

Pages which include paragraph text are:
index.htm, bio.htm, wherelive.htm, ebook.htm

Andy D.
http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Dave Patton

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

andyd@elsewhere.com (Andrew D) wrote in
news:andyd-1408041337380001@dip-220-235-61-173.wa.westnet.com.au:

> I have been juggling font sizes and styles on my new website but am
> coming up against the problem of different browsers displaying the
> text differently, depending on the default fonst size set in the
> browser prefs.
>
> Obviously there's no way I can control other people's browser prefs
> but is there an accepted default font and size for paragraph text?

Yes, 100%, which means 100% of what the browser's owner
has specified, which is best accomplished by not specifying
font sizes.

> My site can be viewed at:
> http://members.westnet.com.au./andydolphin

No, it can't. However, if you remove the period
after the "au" the URL will work, but would have
better been specified as:
http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin/

> Pages which include paragraph text are:
> index.htm

Which has 22 validation erros. It's always
best to first fix any validation errors before
asking for help, or worrying about other things.

> Andy D.
> http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
> Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
> Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Your signature is "broken". It should start with
"-- "(two dashes followed by a space) alone on
the first line.

--
Dave Patton
Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
http://www.confluence.org/
My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/

jake

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

In message
<andyd-1408041337380001@dip-220-235-61-173.wa.westnet.com.au>, Andrew D
<andyd@elsewhere.com> writes
>I have been juggling font sizes and styles on my new website but am coming
>up against the problem of different browsers displaying the text
>differently, depending on the default fonst size set in the browser prefs.
>
>Obviously there's no way I can control other people's browser prefs but is
>there an accepted default font and size for paragraph text?
>
>My site can be viewed at:
>http://members.westnet.com.au./andydolphin

http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin/

>
>Pages which include paragraph text are:
>index.htm, bio.htm, wherelive.htm, ebook.htm
>
>Andy D.
>http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
>Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
>Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Dave seems to have answered your question.

Just a note to say that the site is well put together and looks really
good in Internet Explorer, Netscape 7 and Opera.

The font choices look good to me. Many studies will tell you that a
sans-serif font for body text is easier to read, but the use of Times
seems fine here (although Georgia -- which is designed for the screen --
might be a better choice to put in the suggested font list as #1).

Just one suggestion:
*All* images should have alternative text specified. So, go through your
site and ensure that every spacer.gif (and similar) has ALT="" set in
each <img> tag.

regards.

--
Jake

Andrew D

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

In article <Xns9544EF692DBDBmrzaphoddirectcaold@24.71.223.159>, Dave
Patton <spam@trap.invalid> wrote:

> andyd@elsewhere.com (Andrew D) wrote in
> news:andyd-1408041337380001@dip-220-235-61-173.wa.westnet.com.au:
>
>
> Yes, 100%, which means 100% of what the browser's owner
> has specified, which is best accomplished by not specifying
> font sizes.

>
> No, it can't. However, if you remove the period
> after the "au" the URL will work, but would have
> better been specified as:
> http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin/

Sorry, I have dyslexic fingers. :)
[color=darkred]
> Which has 22 validation erros. It's always
> best to first fix any validation errors before
> asking for help, or worrying about other things.

I did see some validation errors related, it seems, to the lack of a
Doctype declaration. I have been trying to determine what doctype I need
to use to match the html - created in Macromedia Dreamweaver 3.0. Any
hints here would also be appreciated.

[color=darkred]
> Your signature is "broken". It should start with
> "-- "(two dashes followed by a space) alone on
> the first line.

Fixed (hopefully).

Thanks for your time.
--
http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Toby Inkster

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

Andrew D wrote:

> Is the alt text recommended in this case for
> formatting purposes or is there some other reason for it?

According to the HTML specs, all <img> elements ***MUST*** have an alt
attribute. There are many uses for it, but it all comes down to providing
an alternative to display when the image cannot be displayed for some
reason.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Now Playing ~ ./scorpions_-_winds_of_change.ogg

Neal

2004-08-19, 10:38 pm

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:35:45 +0800, Andrew D <andyd@elsewhere.com> wrote:

> In article <P3EFRbDiCdHBFwUW@gododdin.demon.co.uk>, jake
> <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Actually, I saw that advice come up when I ran it through the assessor on
> "web pages that suck". Is the alt text recommended in this case for
> formatting purposes or is there some other reason for it?

Not sure what their assessor is, but it clearly didn't tell you enough...
never worry, a.h.c is here.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct...s.html#adef-alt - alt is
required on img. The attribute's value is basically what text you'd want
presented as a replacement if the user cannot see the image. If the image
should have no replacement text, then alt="" is allowed.

In IE this creates a popup tooltip box with the alt value, while other
browsers do not use alt in this way, which isn't specified in the specs.
However, to actually set a tooltip in supporting browsers we use the title
attribute. (In IE title value is used if available as the tooltip, other
wise reverts to alt, then nothing. Other browsers use title, then either a
file description or no tooltip.)

Andrew D

2004-08-21, 4:32 am

In article <Xns95455B25E3A07mrzaphoddirectcaold@24.71.223.159>, Dave
Patton <spam@trap.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
> Other things to look at are that you shouldn't be using
> tables for layout - use CSS instead.

I always avoided CSS in the past because Netscape 4.7 (Mac) never seemed
to deal with it too well, and that was my main browser. Web pages that
suck also recommended CSS for layout so I'll try to educate myself about
that as I update and modify the site.

Ta.

Andy D.
--
Andy D.
http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Andrew D

2004-08-21, 4:32 am

In article <Xns95455B25E3A07mrzaphoddirectcaold@24.71.223.159>, Dave
Patton <spam@trap.invalid> wrote:

> andyd@elsewhere.com (Andrew D) wrote in news:andyd-1408042242030001@dip-
> 220-235-63-45.wa.westnet.com.au:
>
>
>
> You have it backwards. Select a doctype, and use it for all
> your pages. Use either HTML 4.01 Transitional, or better yet,
> HTML 4.01 Strict. You then author pages that validate to that
> doctype. If Dreamweaver is 'getting in the way' then use a
> different authoring tool, or ask in a dreamweaver-related
> newsgroup/forum for tips/techniques of how to use it to
> author valid HTML.
>
> Other things to look at are that you shouldn't be using
> tables for layout - use CSS instead.

Okay, I've had a bit of a play with the html and tried validating using
4.01 transitional DTD. I've narrowed errors down to 2 and both relate to
the use of a background image in a table cell - which I gather is not
strictly valid html - but which I also gather is widely supported
regardless?

Obviously, if/when I shift over to css rather than tables for layout, I
guess this problem will go away (and no doubt a host of other problems
will arise).

It does appear a number of the errors were created by
Dreamweaver/Fireworks, the most frustrating being a looong comment
declaration beginning with "<!---------------". Fixing this took some
figuring out. Other errors occured as a result of Dreamweaver allowing
non-compliant code.

Thanks to everyone who's offered opinion/advice.
--
Andy D.
http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin
Fine art gallery - online, Western Australia
Landscapes, seascapes and still life paintings in oils.

Frogleg

2004-08-21, 4:33 am

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:57:57 GMT, Dave Patton <spam@trap.invalid>
wrote:

>andyd@elsewhere.com (Andrew D) wrote
>
>
>Other things to look at are that you shouldn't be using
>tables for layout - use CSS instead.

Yes. CSS is *much* more fashionable. You can have your site look
*exactly* the same, and it'll only be 2-3 times more trouble for you
to set up. No matter what your main interests are, you *must* drop
everything now and study CSS.

As someone else posted, the default text size is 100%. Your pages will
look slightly different as people dial the text size up and down, but
that's the price you pay for making it readable for all. Don't worry
about it.

I like your sketches.

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2004-08-21, 4:33 am

Quoth the raven Frogleg:

> Yes. CSS is *much* more fashionable. You can have your site look
> *exactly* the same, and it'll only be 2-3 times more trouble for
> you to set up. No matter what your main interests are, you *must*
> drop everything now and study CSS.

<lol>

It's not difficult at all, just different.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Ben Measures

2004-08-21, 4:33 am

Andrew D wrote:
> Toby Inkster wrote:
>
>
> If anyone has any stats, I'd be interested to know how many people
> disable their style sheets, and why?

I think Toby meant the disabling of JS. Whilst some people do specify
user stylesheets that can override some of the rules you have in yours,
I don't know of anybody that disables stylesheets in their entirety. (In
fact, I've heard of no such method for doing so \o/ )

--
Ben M.

Neal

2004-08-21, 4:33 am

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:53:10 GMT, Ben Measures
<saint_abroadremove@removehotmail.com> wrote:

> Andrew D wrote:
>
> I think Toby meant the disabling of JS. Whilst some people do specify
> user stylesheets that can override some of the rules you have in yours,
> I don't know of anybody that disables stylesheets in their entirety. (In
> fact, I've heard of no such method for doing so \o/ )
>

Opera allows this, it seems.

Toby Inkster

2004-08-21, 12:22 pm

Ben Measures wrote:

> I think Toby meant the disabling of JS.

.... and CSS.

> Whilst some people do specify user stylesheets that can override some
> of the rules you have in yours, I don't know of anybody that disables
> stylesheets in their entirety.

I do. Not always, but if a website has an annoying font or colour scheme,
or if there's weird overlapping text effects, disabling the style sheet is
usually the best fix.

> (In fact, I've heard of no such method for doing so \o/ )

[Ctrl]+[G] works nicely.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Now Playing ~ ./ed_harcourt/here_be_monsters/08_wind_through_the_trees.ogg

Ben Measures

2004-08-21, 7:24 pm

Toby Inkster wrote:
> Ben Measures wrote:
>
>
> ... and CSS.

My apologies.

>
> I do. Not always, but if a website has an annoying font or colour scheme,
> or if there's weird overlapping text effects, disabling the style sheet is
> usually the best fix.

Now I can claim to know 1.

>
> [Ctrl]+[G] works nicely.

Tut tut, being browser specific without specifying the browser ;)

--
Ben M.

Frogleg

2004-08-26, 12:27 pm

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

2004-08-26, 12:27 pm

Neal

2004-08-26, 12:27 pm