| Author |
Site critique, please
|
|
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
be greatly appreciated.
http://www.connectsavannah.com/
Thank you.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| GreyWyvern 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:06:02 -0400, Brandons of mass destruction
<junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
>
> Thank you.
450kB to load the main page. Kiss your dialup users goodbye.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com - Orca Knowledgebase: Completely CSS styleable
Knowledgebase/FAQ system
| |
| Edwin van der Vaart 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| GreyWyvern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:06:02 -0400, Brandons of mass destruction
> <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> 450kB to load the main page. Kiss your dialup users goodbye.
Hmm. I almost said goodbye to the page (broadband).
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
| |
|
| In message <junkie46-884CB9.16060113052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> writes
>crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
>Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
>be greatly appreciated.
>
>http://www.connectsavannah.com/
>
>Thank you.
>
Try switching 'image loading' off in your browser and see if it all
makes sense.
(Hint: it doesn't)
regards.
--
Jake
| |
| Edwin van der Vaart 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
> crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
The page loads to slow, because of the use of tables.
The lay-out looks good in Firefox 0.8 on Linux/Mandrake 9.2
Use a proper Doctype for the html.
http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html
Place the style sheet in an external file and save the file as e.g.
style.css
Add a link of the style sheet between the <head>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css">
I belief you have used a javascript the marguee. The marguee script
doesn't work when I have disabled/enabled the javascript in Firefow 0.8.
Also the google addon banner doesn't work.
When you have finished the page try to validate it at:
html
http://validator.w3.org/
style sheet
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
I really like the steelish-blue color. Plus, it is refreshing to see a
break from the guidelines of graphic design basics.
You are transcending the boundaries of typographic guidelines to boldly
strike out on your own for parts unknown, in a way vaguely similar to
legendary artist Jackson Pollock.
As far as the coding goes, it seems that the W3C validation page is
absolutely dumbstruck. They do not know what to make of your page, so it
must be impressive.
How's that? =)
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| GreyWyvern <SP_bhuisman@greywyvern.com_am> wrote:
> 450kB to load the main page. Kiss your dialup users goodbye.
Bah, lesser mortals that he doesn't need anyways ... =)
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| jake <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Try switching 'image loading' off in your browser and see if it all
> makes sense.
>
> (Hint: it doesn't)
Brandons is an Artist - it doesn't HAVE to make sense.
He designs divinely, inspired, like someone speaking in Tongues ...
except from a design perspective.
You are all just jealous! Admit it!
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| "Brandons of mass destruction" <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:junkie46-884CB9.16060113052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
>
> Thank you.
A bit on the slow side.
Use a meaningful title. This will help you on search engines, and help
users who bookmark your site.
It's a bit cluttered, which leads to confusion, different fonts, colours,
images etc.
I looked at it for a while, looked at all the links, still don't know what
it's about.
Confusing.
--
Charles Sweeney
www.CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Saint Firk 2004-05-14, 12:15 am |
| Way down deep in the middle of the congo, Brandons of mass destruction and a
hippo took an apricot a guava and a mango. Stuck it with the others and he
danced a dainty tango...
> crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz has it loaded?
--
Dale,
www.oxygenkiosk.net
Now playing: Franz Ferdinand - 10 Come On Home
| |
| Weyoun the Dancing Borg 2004-05-14, 10:29 pm |
| Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
> crossposted to alt.html.critique and alt.www.webmaster
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
>
> Thank you.
>
im on a 1mb connection. after 10 seconds and the page hadn't even half
loaded, I closed the browser.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:28 am |
| In article <eidpc.856$Ce4.313@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>,
Weyoun the Dancing Borg <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
> Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
>
>
>
> im on a 1mb connection. after 10 seconds and the page hadn't even half
> loaded, I closed the browser.
What is a 1mb connection?
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| In article <opr7yfqhxlsqnzwn@news.nas.net>,
GreyWyvern <SP_bhuisman@greywyvern.com_am> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:06:02 -0400, Brandons of mass destruction
> <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> 450kB to load the main page. Kiss your dialup users goodbye.
Why's that?
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| In article <AHxGNaAL99oAFwLf@gododdin.demon.co.uk>,
jake <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <junkie46-884CB9.16060113052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> writes
> Try switching 'image loading' off in your browser and see if it all
> makes sense.
>
> (Hint: it doesn't)
Yeah, but how many people actually do that?
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| In article <wtRoc.12718$EV2.109526@amstwist00>,
Edwin van der Vaart <picayunish2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
>
> The page loads to slow, because of the use of tables.
What do tables have to do with that? What could be done instead of using
tables?
> The lay-out looks good in Firefox 0.8 on Linux/Mandrake 9.2
>
> Use a proper Doctype for the html.
> http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html
Why is a Doctype needed? What will that do to enhance the site?
> Place the style sheet in an external file and save the file as e.g.
> style.css
> Add a link of the style sheet between the <head>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css">
>
> I belief you have used a javascript the marguee. The marguee script
> doesn't work when I have disabled/enabled the javascript in Firefow 0.8.
> Also the google addon banner doesn't work.
But isn't Firefox in beta release? Couldn't have account for some of the
problems.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| In article <Xns94E891FDD8BE7doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6>,
The Doormouse <doormouse@att.net> wrote:
> Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I really like the steelish-blue color. Plus, it is refreshing to see a
> break from the guidelines of graphic design basics.
I realize you're being dry, but could explain in clearer terms? What is
bad about the graphic design?
> You are transcending the boundaries of typographic guidelines to boldly
> strike out on your own for parts unknown, in a way vaguely similar to
> legendary artist Jackson Pollock.
see above
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| In article <Xns94E8929EB13B7doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6>,
The Doormouse <doormouse@att.net> wrote:
> jake <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Brandons is an Artist - it doesn't HAVE to make sense.
> He designs divinely, inspired, like someone speaking in Tongues ...
> except from a design perspective.
>
> You are all just jealous! Admit it!
I didn't design the site, I work for the company represented via the
website.
I wasn't clear what I was looking for, so let me try again:
I'm looking for constructive criticism as to why this website doesn't
work and how that criticism can be translated into bottom line terms to
tech ignorant managers. Telling them it doesn't work in Firefox doesn't
matter, they won't care. Telling them it doesn't validate "it's right
there on my screen, i can see it fine", so I'm looking for a better way
to articulate the problems with the website.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <Xns94E891FDD8BE7doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6>,
> The Doormouse <doormouse@att.net> wrote:
>
> I realize you're being dry, but could explain in clearer terms? What is
> bad about the graphic design?
Yikes ... you can tell? Oops.
Well, you have no continuity amongst the fonts used - neither in style,
family nor size. Your menu is basically designed like a ransom note. Some
of the text is just too small to read comfortably elesewhere. The layout
copy is all over the format and the marquee effect is fighting the
natural flow of text for English natives. The logo at right is both
cluttered and almost illegible due to its size and font choice. It
doesn't help that the logo uses colors seen no where else on the page -
okay, maybe the red is there. The whole page is washed out on my monitor.
A professional could give you a better, more involved critique.
Oh - last - I cannot tell what the heck your site is about from the front
page.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm looking for constructive criticism as to why this website doesn't
> work and how that criticism can be translated into bottom line terms to
> tech ignorant managers.
Bottom line?
Your site needs to communicate your message and it does not.
That's the big issue that I have with the site, far above and beyond any
graphical design issues.
What is your site about?
Who are "you" ("you" being the client)?
For whom is your site intended?
Why will they visit, or return?
These are basic questions that I could not determine from looking at your
site. While a personal page can afford the luxury of blowing off these
questions, a commercial site MUST have a laserlike focus on at least
these questions. Remember, ask not what clickthrus your visitors can
generate for your client, ask what you can do FOR THEM to get (and HOLD!)
their attention.
HTH,
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Why's that?
Your page is so large in filesize that most dialup users will be long gone
by the time that it finishes downloading.
Compare the download speed of an 80k file to your behemoth at 450k - your
page will take roughly six times longer to download than most commercial
pages.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> Yeah, but how many people actually do that?
Images tend to appear last. Your huge page size guarentees a long wait for
some users while they stare at a blank page.
Will they stay long enough for your page to finish downloading?
The answer is, no, they will not.
Keep the entire page under 80k - idealy.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> Why is a Doctype needed? What will that do to enhance the site?
A doctype will allow you to exercise some control over how the design
appears in a web browser. Without it, some browsers will display your page
poorly or inconsistently with your intended layout.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| Edwin van der Vaart 2004-05-15, 7:28 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
> Edwin van der Vaart wrote:
>
> What do tables have to do with that? What could be done instead of using
> tables?
In tables you need to specify each cell.
When you're using <div>'s, you can reduce the file size.
[snip]
>
> But isn't Firefox in beta release? Couldn't have account for some of the
> problems.
Firefox is a striped version of Mozilla.
I also viewed the page in Mozilla, still the javascript doesn't work.
Hmmm.
However when I viewed the page with my windows machine, the marquee
script and google addon does work.
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2004-05-15, 7:28 am |
| "Brandons of mass destruction" <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:junkie46-37AE99.23023714052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> I wasn't clear what I was looking for, so let me try again:
> I'm looking for constructive criticism as to why this website doesn't
> work and how that criticism can be translated into bottom line terms to
> tech ignorant managers.
You can tell them what everyone else has said in their own non-tech
language, it takes f*ckin ages to download.
Your average surfer will be LONG gone before the page appears on their
screen.
I'm sure your managers will understand that.
--
Charles Sweeney
www.CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2004-05-15, 7:28 am |
| "Brandons of mass destruction" <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:junkie46-2CABC4.22515914052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <eidpc.856$Ce4.313@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>,
> Weyoun the Dancing Borg <blah@blah.blah> wrote:
>
> What is a 1mb connection?
It's a quicker connection to the internet than most people have.
Most surfers have a connection 20 times slower.
--
Charles Sweeney
www.CharlesSweeney.com
| |
|
| In message <junkie46-AD562B.22533214052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> writes
>In article <AHxGNaAL99oAFwLf@gododdin.demon.co.uk>,
> jake <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Yeah, but how many people actually do that?
>
Well, think of it like this.
It gives you a good idea what people using assistive technology to
'view' your pages are going to see.
Assistive Technology? -- Screen-readers, talking browsers,
text-to-Braille devices, etc.
i.e. For Sight-impaired people, people with cognitive problems, etc.
Try it -- and you'll find your site is inaccessible to these folks.
Let me know if you want me to post a transcript from a talking browser
looking at your site.
(And I do hope you're not going to ask me again "Yeah, but how many
people actually do that?")
regards.
--
Jake
| |
|
|
| Karl Groves 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
|
"Brandons of mass destruction" <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:junkie46-7538C8.22570614052004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <wtRoc.12718$EV2.109526@amstwist00>,
> Edwin van der Vaart <picayunish2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
would[color=darkred]
>
> What do tables have to do with that? What could be done instead of using
> tables?
Tables (can) add to the overall (data) size of the page.
I've successfully whittled 50% of page weight on some sites just by changing
to CSS layout rather than tables.
--
Karl Core
Link of the day:
http://www.mightymoocow.com/werbung.mpeg
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| "Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
> Tables (can) add to the overall (data) size of the page.
> I've successfully whittled 50% of page weight on some sites just by
> changing to CSS layout rather than tables.
Yes, I have seen this too.
Sadly, I have seen pages where the total abuse of tables actually results
in a 1k-2k filesize increase. Usually, though, tables are efficient.
It really depends on how the layout is done.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| Karl Groves 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
|
"The Doormouse" <doormouse@att.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94EA4F43FBA43doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6...
> "Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I have seen this too.
>
> Sadly, I have seen pages where the total abuse of tables actually results
> in a 1k-2k filesize increase. Usually, though, tables are efficient.
>
> It really depends on how the layout is done.
Typically, pages with tables 3-5 deep, spacers, and all the presentational
attributes within the HTML can be cut in half just by going with a hybrid
approach - using tables for positioning but CSS for presentation.
--
Karl Core
Link of the day:
http://www.mightymoocow.com/werbung.mpeg
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| "Karl Groves" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
> Typically, pages with tables 3-5 deep, spacers, and all the
> presentational attributes within the HTML can be cut in half just by
> going with a hybrid approach - using tables for positioning but CSS
> for presentation.
Excellent suggestion - this is what I do, mostly.
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
| Duende 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
> Firefox is a striped version of Mozilla.
Striped down makes it nice.
--
Duende
dob - 05/15/1910
| |
| Charles Sweeney 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| "Duende" <spamxxx@wipkip.biz> wrote in message
news:Xns94EA692401CE4spamxxwipkipbiz@130.133.1.4...
> While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
>
>
> Striped down makes it nice.
>
> --
> Duende
> dob - 05/15/1910
Should be Firetiger then.
--
Charles Sweeney
www.CharlesSweeney.com
| |
| Edwin van der Vaart 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| Duende wrote:
> While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
>
>
>
> Striped down makes it nice.
ER. I ment stripped.
Picky, picky, picky.
--
Edwin van der Vaart
http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
| |
| Duende 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| While sitting in a puddle Charles Sweeney scribbled in the mud:
> "Duende" <spamxxx@wipkip.biz> wrote in message
> news:Xns94EA692401CE4spamxxwipkipbiz@130.133.1.4...
>
> Should be Firetiger then.
Or Fireskunk
--
Duende
dob - 05/15/1910
| |
|
| Duende wrote:
> While sitting in a puddle Charles Sweeney scribbled in the mud:
>
Happy Birthday Sir!!!!
[color=darkred]
>
> Or Fireskunk
Firezebra
--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
| |
| Edwin van der Vaart 2004-05-15, 5:30 pm |
| Els wrote:
> Duende wrote:
!!! Hip, hip, huray !!!
[color=darkred]
>
> Firezebra
Firefly
--
Edwin van der Vaart
Ikke niet begrijpen, ikke domme Hollander zijn.
| |
| Weyoun the Dancing Borg 2004-05-15, 10:29 pm |
| Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
> What is a 1mb connection?
>
i have a 1 mega bit downstream connection. That means I download sites
and files in theory at 125kb/sec (as opposed to 4 or 5kb/sec on a 56K
modem) and as I said, after 10 seconds and it hadn't fully loaded, I quit.
| |
| kchayka 2004-05-15, 10:29 pm |
| Brandons of mass destruction wrote:
>
> Any sort of constructive criticism on design, layout, UI or coding would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.connectsavannah.com/
What everybody else said, plus:
I have a fairly large viewport, but all the content is squished up into
a teeny iframe that I can't make any bigger. Once I increase the text
size enough to read the content, I only get about 10 lines shown at a
time and have to continuously scroll to read the page. It's a PITA.
BTW, frames of any sort, including iframes, are generally considered
evil. They have usability problems, for sure. Bookmarking any one page
at the site is impossible, for one thing. Search engines don't care for
frames, either.
--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-16, 4:29 am |
| In article <Xns94E9D8C5B7A80doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6>,
The Doormouse <doormouse@att.net> wrote:
> Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> A doctype will allow you to exercise some control over how the design
> appears in a web browser. Without it, some browsers will display your page
> poorly or inconsistently with your intended layout.
The site was checked in various major browsers and it did fine.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-16, 4:29 am |
| In article <eXQBZiAItdpAFwAM@gododdin.demon.co.uk>,
jake <jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Let me know if you want me to post a transcript from a talking browser
> looking at your site.
I would GREATLY appreciate this information.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Brandons of mass destruction 2004-05-16, 4:29 am |
| In article <Xns94E9D6CE39AF2doormouseattnet@68.12.19.6>,
The Doormouse <doormouse@att.net> wrote:
> Bottom line?
>
> Your site needs to communicate your message and it does not.
>
> That's the big issue that I have with the site, far above and beyond any
> graphical design issues.
>
> What is your site about?
> Who are "you" ("you" being the client)?
> For whom is your site intended?
> Why will they visit, or return?
>
> These are basic questions that I could not determine from looking at your
> site. While a personal page can afford the luxury of blowing off these
> questions, a commercial site MUST have a laserlike focus on at least
> these questions. Remember, ask not what clickthrus your visitors can
> generate for your client, ask what you can do FOR THEM to get (and HOLD!)
> their attention.
Thanks for the advice and perspective.
--
Quarkxpress sucks.
| |
| Bill Clark 2004-05-16, 4:29 am |
| Duende wrote:
> Or Fireskunk
or Firebush...
Happy birthday!
--
-bc-
Sexy Senior Citizen
Support your local retailer
| |
| The Doormouse 2004-05-16, 4:29 am |
| Brandons of mass destruction <junkie46@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice and perspective.
You are welcome - you might also find this book useful:
"Low cost web site promotion"
ISBN 1-58062-501-0
The Doormouse
--
The Doormouse cannot be reached by e-mail without her permission.
| |
|
|
| Duende 2004-05-18, 7:42 pm |
| While sitting in a puddle Bill Clark scribbled in the mud:
> Duende wrote:
>
>
> or Firebush...
>
> Happy birthday!
>
It was until some old people came over than it got boring as hell.
--
Duende
I'll never do that again.
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