Site Ratings & Reviews - Any suggestions needed...

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Any suggestions needed...

Como Esta el YAY!!!!

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

I'm working on this page in order to find the best way to keep the
formatting the same on multiple browsers. I didn't go with a fluid css type
because older NN versions were dropping my styles and just got fed-up with
trying to find a way around it. Anyway, your thoughts on this page are
appreciated!

http://www.dataaxiom.com

Thanks,
Curt

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Neal

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:20:35 -0500, Como Esta el YAY!!!! <noreply@dom>
wrote:

> I'm working on this page in order to find the best way to keep the
> formatting the same on multiple browsers. I didn't go with a fluid css
> type
> because older NN versions were dropping my styles and just got fed-up
> with
> trying to find a way around it. Anyway, your thoughts on this page are
> appreciated!
>
> http://www.dataaxiom.com
>
> Thanks,
> Curt

Before I even look at it, if you import a stylesheet like this:

<style type="text/css" media="screen">@import url("imported.css");</style>

most old browsers won't even apply styles, and your page degrades to a
simple HTML-only layout. Besides, there are still rendering issues with
NN4.01 as is. Better off serving that browser no style.

Disable any links to the active page - no self-referential links.

I don't see why a table layout is needed here. Unless, again, you're
intent on giving old NN users the same presentation as modern browser
users - which as I point out above isn't really practical. This
presentation can be achieved quite easily using no tables (unless the info
is tabular) and plain semantic markup.

Curtis Morrison

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

Thanks Neal,

Here's the CSS version:
http://www.dataaxiom.com/temp2.htm

How can I adjust the positioning of the text within a <div> region?

Thanks,
Curt

"Neal" <neal413@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:opr7o5d6dm6v6656@news.individual.net...
> On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:20:35 -0500, Como Esta el YAY!!!! <noreply@dom>
> wrote:
>
>
> Before I even look at it, if you import a stylesheet like this:
>
> <style type="text/css" media="screen">@import url("imported.css");</style>
>
> most old browsers won't even apply styles, and your page degrades to a
> simple HTML-only layout. Besides, there are still rendering issues with
> NN4.01 as is. Better off serving that browser no style.
>
> Disable any links to the active page - no self-referential links.
>
> I don't see why a table layout is needed here. Unless, again, you're
> intent on giving old NN users the same presentation as modern browser
> users - which as I point out above isn't really practical. This
> presentation can be achieved quite easily using no tables (unless the info
> is tabular) and plain semantic markup.

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Neal

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

On Sun, 9 May 2004 10:27:25 -0500, Curtis Morrison
<curtmorrison@dataaxiom.com> wrote:

> Thanks Neal,
>
> Here's the CSS version:
> http://www.dataaxiom.com/temp2.htm
>
> How can I adjust the positioning of the text within a <div> region?

Lots of ways, depending on what you want to do. Remember, every element
has adjustible margins. If you set a <div> as positioned (use position:
relative; with no offsets) you can now use that div as the reference for
where things go.

There's a bit of a crash where your "ContentGlobal" div is riding up on
top of the "ContentFooter" div. For whatever reason my eye's aren't
picking it up in the CSS. But there's something that can be tweaked.

A few pointers:

Do you require fixed width? Seems to me this would use viewport real
estate more naturally with a fluid layout. If you do that, you'll want to
change most widths to percentages and most heights will no longer be
needed.

body {
text-align:center;
background-color: #666666;
font-size: small;
}

If you set a background color, set a color too. But more critically - why
font-size: small?? That's a usability issue. We should be serving text
that is normal size - normal meaning what the user has set as default.
body {font-size: 100%;} is pretty much what I use exclusively. Then make
any size changes in % or em after that.

Always have link styles in the order link visited hover active. Yours are
mixed up in the CSS and link styles are irregular.

XHTML - don't need it. I would replace the doctype with HTML 4.1, de-slash
all the empty elements, and re-validate for that doctype. See, unless
you're serving the page as application/xhtml+xml (might have misspelled
there) you get none of the possible benefits of XHTML. However, since IE
cannot deal with that MIME type you have to serve it as text/html for it
to work, and so why use XHTML? Write well formed HTML 4.1 and if you ever
want to use XHTML in the future conversion will be exceedingly simple.

Now here's the fun trick. If you link to the stylesheet old NN is all
wonky. But if you have NO link elements at all, IE does what someone
called the "flash of unstyled content" which can be avoided by adding
"something" as a link element. Even <link rel="home"
href="http://www.example.com/" title="The home page of the site"> will do.

It will take a little tweaking but this is a decent start toward a good
CSS layout. You have an excellent concept in mind, I think you just need
to persevere.

Curtis Morrison

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

Thanks Neal! I made good use of your suggestions, but I was wondering if
you could explain what you mean by adding something as a link element - I
don't quite understand.

Thanks!
curtmorrison@dataaxiom.com

"Neal" <neal413@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:opr7qs2lim6v6656@news.individual.net...
> On Sun, 9 May 2004 10:27:25 -0500, Curtis Morrison
> <curtmorrison@dataaxiom.com> wrote:
>
>
> Lots of ways, depending on what you want to do. Remember, every element
> has adjustible margins. If you set a <div> as positioned (use position:
> relative; with no offsets) you can now use that div as the reference for
> where things go.
>
> There's a bit of a crash where your "ContentGlobal" div is riding up on
> top of the "ContentFooter" div. For whatever reason my eye's aren't
> picking it up in the CSS. But there's something that can be tweaked.
>
> A few pointers:
>
> Do you require fixed width? Seems to me this would use viewport real
> estate more naturally with a fluid layout. If you do that, you'll want to
> change most widths to percentages and most heights will no longer be
> needed.
>
> body {
> text-align:center;
> background-color: #666666;
> font-size: small;
> }
>
> If you set a background color, set a color too. But more critically - why
> font-size: small?? That's a usability issue. We should be serving text
> that is normal size - normal meaning what the user has set as default.
> body {font-size: 100%;} is pretty much what I use exclusively. Then make
> any size changes in % or em after that.
>
> Always have link styles in the order link visited hover active. Yours are
> mixed up in the CSS and link styles are irregular.
>
> XHTML - don't need it. I would replace the doctype with HTML 4.1, de-slash
> all the empty elements, and re-validate for that doctype. See, unless
> you're serving the page as application/xhtml+xml (might have misspelled
> there) you get none of the possible benefits of XHTML. However, since IE
> cannot deal with that MIME type you have to serve it as text/html for it
> to work, and so why use XHTML? Write well formed HTML 4.1 and if you ever
> want to use XHTML in the future conversion will be exceedingly simple.
>
> Now here's the fun trick. If you link to the stylesheet old NN is all
> wonky. But if you have NO link elements at all, IE does what someone
> called the "flash of unstyled content" which can be avoided by adding
> "something" as a link element. Even <link rel="home"
> href="http://www.example.com/" title="The home page of the site"> will do.
>
> It will take a little tweaking but this is a decent start toward a good
> CSS layout. You have an excellent concept in mind, I think you just need
> to persevere.

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Neal

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

On Sun, 9 May 2004 13:06:41 -0500, Curtis Morrison
<curtmorrison@dataaxiom.com> wrote:

> Thanks Neal! I made good use of your suggestions, but I was wondering if
> you could explain what you mean by adding something as a link element - I
> don't quite understand.
>

As long as there is a link element in the head, IE will render fine.
Without any link element, it will render fine - eventually. As the page
loads you see it unstyled, then styled. The CSS kicks in late, in other
words.

See http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp for more information.

Curtis Morrison

2004-05-14, 12:14 am

Got it - that makes sense. Last question: do you know why the contentbody
div loses formatting in IE when I place a <p> </p> in it?

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

"Neal" <neal413@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:opr7qvw1fu6v6656@news.individual.net...
> On Sun, 9 May 2004 13:06:41 -0500, Curtis Morrison
> <curtmorrison@dataaxiom.com> wrote:
>
if[color=darkred]
I[color=darkred]
>
> As long as there is a link element in the head, IE will render fine.
> Without any link element, it will render fine - eventually. As the page
> loads you see it unstyled, then styled. The CSS kicks in late, in other
> words.
>
> See http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp for more information.
>

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