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| Author |
HEX EEEEEE COLORS WITH IE
|
|
|
| I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
display different shades of gray in a table. On my computer, and most
others, it displays fine. However, I have a client who apparently can't
display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her screen). She can see
DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI Radeon Xpress with Benq
monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different color, or is it simply
some problem with her setup. Thanks
| |
| Murray 2007-02-28, 6:16 pm |
| All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the octothorpe "#". Have you
done this?
#DDDDDD?
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
>I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
> display different shades of gray in a table. On my computer, and most
> others, it displays fine. However, I have a client who apparently can't
> display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her screen). She can see
> DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI Radeon Xpress with Benq
> monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different color, or is it simply
> some problem with her setup. Thanks
| |
|
| Would that make it appear on one computer and not on another - I would assume
a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing phenomenon?
"Murray" wrote:
> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the octothorpe "#". Have you
> done this?
>
> #DDDDDD?
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
>
>
>
| |
| P@tty Ayers 2007-02-28, 6:16 pm |
| It could, because she may be using a different browser, and some are more
"forgiving" of a code mistake than others.
--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--
"Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on another - I would
> assume
> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing phenomenon?
>
>
> "Murray" wrote:
>
| |
| Murray 2007-02-28, 6:16 pm |
| Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other browsers will not. IE is
wrong to do this.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on another - I would
> assume
> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing phenomenon?
>
>
> "Murray" wrote:
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-02-28, 6:16 pm |
| IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still readable, whereas other browsers do.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
>
>
| |
| P@tty Ayers 2007-02-28, 6:16 pm |
| I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is "wrong" or not could be
debated, but I can't see how you can call it "penalizing" for the other
browsers to interpret code accurately and correctly, Thomas.
--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still readable,
> whereas other browsers do.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-02-28, 10:15 pm |
| I have to agree with Patty, no matter how much it pains me.... 8)
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is "wrong" or not could be
>debated, but I can't see how you can call it "penalizing" for the other
>browsers to interpret code accurately and correctly, Thomas.
>
> --
> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
> --
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Rob Giordano \(Crash\) 2007-03-01, 3:15 am |
| I agree with Otto Thorpe whoever he is.
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:epIMVc6WHHA.388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
|I have to agree with Patty, no matter how much it pains me.... 8)
|
| --
| Murray
| --------------
| MVP FrontPage
|
|
| "P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
| news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| >I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is "wrong" or not could be
| >debated, but I can't see how you can call it "penalizing" for the other
| >browsers to interpret code accurately and correctly, Thomas.
| >
| > --
| > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
| > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
| > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
| > --
| >
| >
| > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
| > news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| >> IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still readable,
| >> whereas other browsers do.
| >>
| >> --
| >> ==============================================
| >> Thomas A. Rowe
| >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| >>
| >> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
| >> ==============================================
| >>
| >>
| >> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
| >> news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| >>> Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other browsers will not.
IE
| >>> is wrong to do this.
| >>>
| >>> --
| >>> Murray
| >>> --------------
| >>> MVP FrontPage
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >>> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
| >>>> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on another - I
would
| >>>> assume
| >>>> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing phenomenon?
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> "Murray" wrote:
| >>>>
| >>>>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the octothorpe "#". Have
| >>>>> you
| >>>>> done this?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> #DDDDDD?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> --
| >>>>> Murray
| >>>>> --------------
| >>>>> MVP FrontPage
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >>>>> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
| >>>>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors EEEEEE and
F2F2F2
| >>>>> >to
| >>>>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On my computer, and
| >>>>> > most
| >>>>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a client who apparently
| >>>>> > can't
| >>>>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her screen). She
| >>>>> > can see
| >>>>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI Radeon Xpress
with
| >>>>> > Benq
| >>>>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different color, or is
it
| >>>>> > simply
| >>>>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
| |
| Murray 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Wasn't he a famous football player?
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:%235NEYV7WHHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I agree with Otto Thorpe whoever he is.
>
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:epIMVc6WHHA.388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> |I have to agree with Patty, no matter how much it pains me.... 8)
> |
> | --
> | Murray
> | --------------
> | MVP FrontPage
> |
> |
> | "P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
> | news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> | >I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is "wrong" or not could be
> | >debated, but I can't see how you can call it "penalizing" for the other
> | >browsers to interpret code accurately and correctly, Thomas.
> | >
> | > --
> | > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
> | > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
> | > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
> | > --
> | >
> | >
> | > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> | > news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> | >> IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still readable,
> | >> whereas other browsers do.
> | >>
> | >> --
> | >> ==============================================
> | >> Thomas A. Rowe
> | >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> | >>
> | >> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> | >> ==============================================
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> | >> news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> | >>> Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other browsers will not.
> IE
> | >>> is wrong to do this.
> | >>>
> | >>> --
> | >>> Murray
> | >>> --------------
> | >>> MVP FrontPage
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | >>> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
> | >>>> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on another - I
> would
> | >>>> assume
> | >>>> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing phenomenon?
> | >>>>
> | >>>>
> | >>>> "Murray" wrote:
> | >>>>
> | >>>>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the octothorpe "#".
> Have
> | >>>>> you
> | >>>>> done this?
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>> #DDDDDD?
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>> --
> | >>>>> Murray
> | >>>>> --------------
> | >>>>> MVP FrontPage
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | >>>>> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
> | >>>>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors EEEEEE and
> F2F2F2
> | >>>>> >to
> | >>>>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On my computer,
> and
> | >>>>> > most
> | >>>>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a client who
> apparently
> | >>>>> > can't
> | >>>>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her screen).
> She
> | >>>>> > can see
> | >>>>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI Radeon Xpress
> with
> | >>>>> > Benq
> | >>>>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different color, or is
> it
> | >>>>> > simply
> | >>>>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>
> | >>
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Very simple if the browser can understand what is want or is capable of display a page when the code
is badly written this is a benefit for the user * of the browser. Browsers that do not do this
penalize users as a way of get back at developers of the site, by making the site look bad.
* User in this case, are folks that just want to view a web site for the info it contains, they do
not care how the site was coded, etc.
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is "wrong" or not could be debated, but I can't see how
>you can call it "penalizing" for the other browsers to interpret code accurately and correctly,
>Thomas.
>
> --
> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
> --
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| This does NOT benefit the user. It confuses them. This attitude is what
has gotten IE into the hole it's in now - all this making nice stuff.
There's a perfectly good set of standards out there. They should not just
ignore them willy nilly.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:e3r$JCAXHHA.4216@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Very simple if the browser can understand what is want or is capable of
> display a page when the code is badly written this is a benefit for the
> user * of the browser. Browsers that do not do this penalize users as a
> way of get back at developers of the site, by making the site look bad.
>
> * User in this case, are folks that just want to view a web site for the
> info it contains, they do not care how the site was coded, etc.
>
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
> news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Mike Mueller 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| For the viewing user only, it may lead him/her to think
another browser does not work properly because it does not
render the authors mistakes as the original browser
*guessed* at what the developer intended.
For the looking-for-ideas user, it may lead to a further
propagation of improper coding techniques.
For the original developer who only views his page in one
browser, he/she will be led to believe their coding is OK
and not learn from the mistake they made. This could just go
on and on until the author starts putting in some doc-type
and fails validation when they learn of it and then the
author has multitudes of pages to go through and errors to
fix
Regardless, I think its reaching to say the other browsers
make the sites look bad.
Maybe the browsers' owner could run a bot and look for all
of these codings and extort millions for their big coverup
But in todays legal system, MS would be class-action sued by
the incorrect coders association for teaching them improper
coding techniques. They would also lose then to the other
browsers developers who will state that IE's rendering of
quirk code makes their software look bad
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still
readable, whereas other browsers do.
:
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe
: Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
:
: http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: ==============================================
:
:
: "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
message
: news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: > Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other
browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
: >
: > --
: > Murray
: > --------------
: > MVP FrontPage
: >
: >
: > "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
: >
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
: >> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on
another - I would assume
: >> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing
phenomenon?
: >>
: >>
: >> "Murray" wrote:
: >>
: >>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the
octothorpe "#". Have you
: >>> done this?
: >>>
: >>> #DDDDDD?
: >>>
: >>> --
: >>> Murray
: >>> --------------
: >>> MVP FrontPage
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
: >>>
news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
: >>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors
EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
: >>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On my
computer, and most
: >>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a client
who apparently can't
: >>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her
screen). She can see
: >>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI
Radeon Xpress with Benq
: >>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different
color, or is it simply
: >>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >
: >
:
:
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Most users will use whatever browser is installed on the machine they are using.
I agree developers need to code pages correctly.
If IE can display the correct color when the # is missing then so can the others.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
news:OEL3OZCXHHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> For the viewing user only, it may lead him/her to think
> another browser does not work properly because it does not
> render the authors mistakes as the original browser
> *guessed* at what the developer intended.
>
> For the looking-for-ideas user, it may lead to a further
> propagation of improper coding techniques.
>
> For the original developer who only views his page in one
> browser, he/she will be led to believe their coding is OK
> and not learn from the mistake they made. This could just go
> on and on until the author starts putting in some doc-type
> and fails validation when they learn of it and then the
> author has multitudes of pages to go through and errors to
> fix
>
> Regardless, I think its reaching to say the other browsers
> make the sites look bad.
>
> Maybe the browsers' owner could run a bot and look for all
> of these codings and extort millions for their big coverup
> But in todays legal system, MS would be class-action sued by
> the incorrect coders association for teaching them improper
> coding techniques. They would also lose then to the other
> browsers developers who will state that IE's rendering of
> quirk code makes their software look bad
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> : IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but still
> readable, whereas other browsers do.
> :
> : --
> : ==============================================
> : Thomas A. Rowe
> : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> :
> : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : ==============================================
> :
> :
> : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
> message
> : news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : > Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other
> browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Murray
> : > --------------
> : > MVP FrontPage
> : >
> : >
> : > "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message
> : >
> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
> : >> Would that make it appear on one computer and not on
> another - I would assume
> : >> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing
> phenomenon?
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> "Murray" wrote:
> : >>
> : >>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the
> octothorpe "#". Have you
> : >>> done this?
> : >>>
> : >>> #DDDDDD?
> : >>>
> : >>> --
> : >>> Murray
> : >>> --------------
> : >>> MVP FrontPage
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message
> : >>>
> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
> : >>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex colors
> EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
> : >>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On my
> computer, and most
> : >>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a client
> who apparently can't
> : >>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on her
> screen). She can see
> : >>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a ATI
> Radeon Xpress with Benq
> : >>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a different
> color, or is it simply
> : >>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| There are no HTML standards, just recommendations.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:ej0NHoBXHHA.4240@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> This does NOT benefit the user. It confuses them. This attitude is what has gotten IE into the
> hole it's in now - all this making nice stuff. There's a perfectly good set of standards out
> there. They should not just ignore them willy nilly.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:e3r$JCAXHHA.4216@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Mike Mueller 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| I agree with you on all 3; however, I also agree with Murray
in the fact that just because IE can do it doesn't mean it
should.
What we can all agree on is the problem, but is it an FP
issue at all?
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OzYtFvCXHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
: Most users will use whatever browser is installed on the
machine they are using.
:
: I agree developers need to code pages correctly.
:
: If IE can display the correct color when the # is missing
then so can the others.
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe
: Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
:
: http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: ==============================================
:
:
: "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
: news:OEL3OZCXHHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
: > For the viewing user only, it may lead him/her to think
: > another browser does not work properly because it does
not
: > render the authors mistakes as the original browser
: > *guessed* at what the developer intended.
: >
: > For the looking-for-ideas user, it may lead to a further
: > propagation of improper coding techniques.
: >
: > For the original developer who only views his page in
one
: > browser, he/she will be led to believe their coding is
OK
: > and not learn from the mistake they made. This could
just go
: > on and on until the author starts putting in some
doc-type
: > and fails validation when they learn of it and then the
: > author has multitudes of pages to go through and errors
to
: > fix
: >
: > Regardless, I think its reaching to say the other
browsers
: > make the sites look bad.
: >
: > Maybe the browsers' owner could run a bot and look for
all
: > of these codings and extort millions for their big
coverup
: > But in todays legal system, MS would be class-action
sued by
: > the incorrect coders association for teaching them
improper
: > coding techniques. They would also lose then to the
other
: > browsers developers who will state that IE's rendering
of
: > quirk code makes their software look bad
: >
: >
: > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: > news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: > : IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but
still
: > readable, whereas other browsers do.
: > :
: > : --
: > : ==============================================
: > : Thomas A. Rowe
: > : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > :
: > : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : ==============================================
: > :
: > :
: > : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
: > message
: > : news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: > : > Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other
: > browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
: > : >
: > : > --
: > : > Murray
: > : > --------------
: > : > MVP FrontPage
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
: > message
: > : >
: >
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
: > : >> Would that make it appear on one computer and not
on
: > another - I would assume
: > : >> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing
: > phenomenon?
: > : >>
: > : >>
: > : >> "Murray" wrote:
: > : >>
: > : >>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the
: > octothorpe "#". Have you
: > : >>> done this?
: > : >>>
: > : >>> #DDDDDD?
: > : >>>
: > : >>> --
: > : >>> Murray
: > : >>> --------------
: > : >>> MVP FrontPage
: > : >>>
: > : >>>
: > : >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
: > message
: > : >>>
: >
news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
: > : >>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex
colors
: > EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
: > : >>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On
my
: > computer, and most
: > : >>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a
client
: > who apparently can't
: > : >>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on
her
: > screen). She can see
: > : >>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a
ATI
: > Radeon Xpress with Benq
: > : >>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a
different
: > color, or is it simply
: > : >>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
: > : >>>
: > : >>>
: > : >>>
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| No, it is not an FP issue.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
news:u4Uvo$CXHHA.1432@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I agree with you on all 3; however, I also agree with Murray
> in the fact that just because IE can do it doesn't mean it
> should.
>
> What we can all agree on is the problem, but is it an FP
> issue at all?
>
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OzYtFvCXHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> : Most users will use whatever browser is installed on the
> machine they are using.
> :
> : I agree developers need to code pages correctly.
> :
> : If IE can display the correct color when the # is missing
> then so can the others.
> : --
> : ==============================================
> : Thomas A. Rowe
> : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> :
> : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : ==============================================
> :
> :
> : "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
> : news:OEL3OZCXHHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> : > For the viewing user only, it may lead him/her to think
> : > another browser does not work properly because it does
> not
> : > render the authors mistakes as the original browser
> : > *guessed* at what the developer intended.
> : >
> : > For the looking-for-ideas user, it may lead to a further
> : > propagation of improper coding techniques.
> : >
> : > For the original developer who only views his page in
> one
> : > browser, he/she will be led to believe their coding is
> OK
> : > and not learn from the mistake they made. This could
> just go
> : > on and on until the author starts putting in some
> doc-type
> : > and fails validation when they learn of it and then the
> : > author has multitudes of pages to go through and errors
> to
> : > fix
> : >
> : > Regardless, I think its reaching to say the other
> browsers
> : > make the sites look bad.
> : >
> : > Maybe the browsers' owner could run a bot and look for
> all
> : > of these codings and extort millions for their big
> coverup
> : > But in todays legal system, MS would be class-action
> sued by
> : > the incorrect coders association for teaching them
> improper
> : > coding techniques. They would also lose then to the
> other
> : > browsers developers who will state that IE's rendering
> of
> : > quirk code makes their software look bad
> : >
> : >
> : > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> : > news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> : > : IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong, but
> still
> : > readable, whereas other browsers do.
> : > :
> : > : --
> : > : ==============================================
> : > : Thomas A. Rowe
> : > : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : > :
> : > : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : > : ==============================================
> : > :
> : > :
> : > : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
> : > message
> : > : news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : > : > Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you. Other
> : > browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
> : > : >
> : > : > --
> : > : > Murray
> : > : > --------------
> : > : > MVP FrontPage
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : > "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> : > message
> : > : >
> : >
> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
> : > : >> Would that make it appear on one computer and not
> on
> : > another - I would assume
> : > : >> a missing octothorpe would be an all or nothing
> : > phenomenon?
> : > : >>
> : > : >>
> : > : >> "Murray" wrote:
> : > : >>
> : > : >>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with the
> : > octothorpe "#". Have you
> : > : >>> done this?
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>> #DDDDDD?
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>> --
> : > : >>> Murray
> : > : >>> --------------
> : > : >>> MVP FrontPage
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> : > message
> : > : >>>
> : >
> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
> : > : >>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex
> colors
> : > EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
> : > : >>> > display different shades of gray in a table. On
> my
> : > computer, and most
> : > : >>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have a
> client
> : > who apparently can't
> : > : >>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look white on
> her
> : > screen). She can see
> : > : >>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has a
> ATI
> : > Radeon Xpress with Benq
> : > : >>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a
> different
> : > color, or is it simply
> : > : >>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>>
> : > : >>>
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > :
> : > :
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>
| |
| P@tty Ayers 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Does that mean that it shouldn't be discussed here? I thought that questions
about HTML and browsers were on-topic.
--
Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eaT4CFDXHHA.3972@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> No, it is not an FP issue.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
> news:u4Uvo$CXHHA.1432@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Mike Mueller 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Never claimed it was OT, I was just wondering if any of the
FP versions were responsible for the code.
"P@tty Ayers" <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote
in message news:%23XvIQUDXHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: Does that mean that it shouldn't be discussed here? I
thought that questions
: about HTML and browsers were on-topic.
:
: --
: Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
: www.WebDevBiz.com
: Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
: Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
Worksheet
: --
:
:
:
: "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: news:eaT4CFDXHHA.3972@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: > No, it is not an FP issue.
: >
: > --
: > ==============================================
: > Thomas A. Rowe
: > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >
: > http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > ==============================================
: >
: >
: > "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
: > news:u4Uvo$CXHHA.1432@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: >>I agree with you on all 3; however, I also agree with
Murray
: >> in the fact that just because IE can do it doesn't mean
it
: >> should.
: >>
: >> What we can all agree on is the problem, but is it an
FP
: >> issue at all?
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: >> news:OzYtFvCXHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
: >> : Most users will use whatever browser is installed on
the
: >> machine they are using.
: >> :
: >> : I agree developers need to code pages correctly.
: >> :
: >> : If IE can display the correct color when the # is
missing
: >> then so can the others.
: >> : --
: >> : ==============================================
: >> : Thomas A. Rowe
: >> : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >> :
: >> : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >> : ==============================================
: >> :
: >> :
: >> : "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in
message
: >> : news:OEL3OZCXHHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
: >> : > For the viewing user only, it may lead him/her to
think
: >> : > another browser does not work properly because it
does
: >> not
: >> : > render the authors mistakes as the original browser
: >> : > *guessed* at what the developer intended.
: >> : >
: >> : > For the looking-for-ideas user, it may lead to a
further
: >> : > propagation of improper coding techniques.
: >> : >
: >> : > For the original developer who only views his page
in
: >> one
: >> : > browser, he/she will be led to believe their coding
is
: >> OK
: >> : > and not learn from the mistake they made. This
could
: >> just go
: >> : > on and on until the author starts putting in some
: >> doc-type
: >> : > and fails validation when they learn of it and then
the
: >> : > author has multitudes of pages to go through and
errors
: >> to
: >> : > fix
: >> : >
: >> : > Regardless, I think its reaching to say the other
: >> browsers
: >> : > make the sites look bad.
: >> : >
: >> : > Maybe the browsers' owner could run a bot and look
for
: >> all
: >> : > of these codings and extort millions for their big
: >> coverup
: >> : > But in todays legal system, MS would be
class-action
: >> sued by
: >> : > the incorrect coders association for teaching them
: >> improper
: >> : > coding techniques. They would also lose then to the
: >> other
: >> : > browsers developers who will state that IE's
rendering
: >> of
: >> : > quirk code makes their software look bad
: >> : >
: >> : >
: >> : > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: >> : > news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: >> : > : IE doesn't penalized users if the code is wrong,
but
: >> still
: >> : > readable, whereas other browsers do.
: >> : > :
: >> : > : --
: >> : > : ==============================================
: >> : > : Thomas A. Rowe
: >> : > : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >> : > :
: >> : > : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >> : > : ==============================================
: >> : > :
: >> : > :
: >> : > : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote
in
: >> : > message
: >> : > : news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: >> : > : > Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you.
Other
: >> : > browsers will not. IE is wrong to do this.
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : > --
: >> : > : > Murray
: >> : > : > --------------
: >> : > : > MVP FrontPage
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : > "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in
: >> : > message
: >> : > : >
: >> : >
: >>
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
: >> : > : >> Would that make it appear on one computer and
not
: >> on
: >> : > another - I would assume
: >> : > : >> a missing octothorpe would be an all or
nothing
: >> : > phenomenon?
: >> : > : >>
: >> : > : >>
: >> : > : >> "Murray" wrote:
: >> : > : >>
: >> : > : >>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with
the
: >> : > octothorpe "#". Have you
: >> : > : >>> done this?
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>> #DDDDDD?
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>> --
: >> : > : >>> Murray
: >> : > : >>> --------------
: >> : > : >>> MVP FrontPage
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote in
: >> : > message
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : >
: >>
news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
: >> : > : >>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex
: >> colors
: >> : > EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
: >> : > : >>> > display different shades of gray in a
table. On
: >> my
: >> : > computer, and most
: >> : > : >>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have
a
: >> client
: >> : > who apparently can't
: >> : > : >>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look
white on
: >> her
: >> : > screen). She can see
: >> : > : >>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She has
a
: >> ATI
: >> : > Radeon Xpress with Benq
: >> : > : >>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a
: >> different
: >> : > color, or is it simply
: >> : > : >>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >>>
: >> : > : >
: >> : > : >
: >> : > :
: >> : > :
: >> : >
: >> : >
: >> :
: >> :
: >>
: >>
: >
: >
:
:
| |
| Murray 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| Yes, it is. It should be flagged as what it is - invalid HTML. The page
will fail validation.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eaT4CFDXHHA.3972@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> No, it is not an FP issue.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
> news:u4Uvo$CXHHA.1432@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| This is not something that any version of FP creates, but if you were to run a validator, then I
agree it should be flagged.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:u6Sgq5DXHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Yes, it is. It should be flagged as what it is - invalid HTML. The page will fail validation.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:eaT4CFDXHHA.3972@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-01, 6:18 pm |
| FP should flag it the same way it does other invalid HTML, no?
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23acJXeEXHHA.388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> This is not something that any version of FP creates, but if you were to
> run a validator, then I agree it should be flagged.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:u6Sgq5DXHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-02, 6:16 pm |
| Does any validator, flag this?
Since we have the ability to specify colors as a hexadecimal number, an RGB value, or a color name.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:ejIpqCFXHHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> FP should flag it the same way it does other invalid HTML, no?
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:%23acJXeEXHHA.388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-02, 6:16 pm |
| Yes. W3 does.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23pmmA8LXHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Does any validator, flag this?
>
> Since we have the ability to specify colors as a hexadecimal number, an
> RGB value, or a color name.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:ejIpqCFXHHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-02, 6:16 pm |
| Ok.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:%23r0TIKMXHHA.2052@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Yes. W3 does.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:%23pmmA8LXHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| Well, Tom, it seems that all of the browser vendors are adopting a
"standard" of adhering to the recommendations.
;-)
--
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Help test our new betas,
DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
http://www.miradyne.net
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23EEXhvCXHHA.4624@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> There are no HTML standards, just recommendations.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:ej0NHoBXHHA.4240@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| That is one way of looking at it, but that still doesn't make them standards.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote in message
news:uQNK3uyXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Well, Tom, it seems that all of the browser vendors are adopting a "standard" of adhering to the
> recommendations.
>
> ;-)
>
> --
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
>
> Help test our new betas,
> DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
> http://www.miradyne.net
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:%23EEXhvCXHHA.4624@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| The recommendations are the standard.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u303y9yXHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> That is one way of looking at it, but that still doesn't make them
> standards.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote in message
> news:uQNK3uyXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| From Merriam-Webster Online:
recommendation:
1a: the act of recommending
1b: something (as a procedure) recommended
The W3C states they provide recommendations. So far nowhere have I seen them state that they are
issuing "standards".
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:uB6e4NzXHHA.2552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> The recommendations are the standard.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:u303y9yXHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| They are the very definition of HTML. You can follow them or not. If you
follow them, your pages will validate and you will be happy and prosperous.
If you don't follow them, your teeth will get long, and you will be an ugly
person.
The community and the manufacturers have embraced them as the "standards".
Call it what you will.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OnG9QUzXHHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> From Merriam-Webster Online:
>
> recommendation:
>
> 1a: the act of recommending
> 1b: something (as a procedure) recommended
>
> The W3C states they provide recommendations. So far nowhere have I seen
> them state that they are issuing "standards".
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:uB6e4NzXHHA.2552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| Visitors to web sites only care that the site is viewable in the browser of their choice and has the
content they are looking for.
The only people I have ever heard of, that are concerned about pages validating, are web developers.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:OelChuzXHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> They are the very definition of HTML. You can follow them or not. If you follow them, your pages
> will validate and you will be happy and prosperous. If you don't follow them, your teeth will get
> long, and you will be an ugly person.
>
> The community and the manufacturers have embraced them as the "standards". Call it what you will.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:OnG9QUzXHHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Mike Mueller 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| Q: Why do the developers want the pages to validate?
A: Answered by you: "Visitors to web sites only care that
the site is viewable in the browser of their choice"
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OPr3xyzXHHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: Visitors to web sites only care that the site is viewable
in the browser of their choice and has the
: content they are looking for.
:
: The only people I have ever heard of, that are concerned
about pages validating, are web developers.
:
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe
: Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
:
: http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: ==============================================
:
:
: "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
message
: news:OelChuzXHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > They are the very definition of HTML. You can follow
them or not. If you follow them, your pages
: > will validate and you will be happy and prosperous. If
you don't follow them, your teeth will get
: > long, and you will be an ugly person.
: >
: > The community and the manufacturers have embraced them
as the "standards". Call it what you will.
: >
: > --
: > Murray
: > --------------
: > MVP FrontPage
: >
: >
: > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OnG9QUzXHHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
: >> From Merriam-Webster Online:
: >>
: >> recommendation:
: >>
: >> 1a: the act of recommending
: >> 1b: something (as a procedure) recommended
: >>
: >> The W3C states they provide recommendations. So far
nowhere have I seen them state that they are
: >> issuing "standards".
: >> --
: >> ==============================================
: >> Thomas A. Rowe
: >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >>
: >> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >> ==============================================
: >>
: >>
: >> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
message
: >> news:uB6e4NzXHHA.2552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: >>> The recommendations are the standard.
: >>>
: >>> --
: >>> Murray
: >>> --------------
: >>> MVP FrontPage
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: >>> news:u303y9yXHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: >>>> That is one way of looking at it, but that still
doesn't make them standards.
: >>>>
: >>>> --
: >>>> ==============================================
: >>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: >>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >>>>
: >>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >>>> ==============================================
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> "Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote in
message
: >>>> news:uQNK3uyXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: >>>>> Well, Tom, it seems that all of the browser vendors
are adopting a "standard" of adhering to
: >>>>> the recommendations.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> ;-)
: >>>>>
: >>>>> --
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Kevin Spencer
: >>>>> Microsoft MVP
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Help test our new betas,
: >>>>> DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
: >>>>> http://www.miradyne.net
: >>>>>
: >>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: >>>>> news:%23EEXhvCXHHA.4624@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>> There are no HTML standards, just recommendations.
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> --
: >>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
message
: >>>>>> news:ej0NHoBXHHA.4240@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>>> This does NOT benefit the user. It confuses them.
This attitude is what has gotten IE into
: >>>>>>> the hole it's in now - all this making nice stuff.
There's a perfectly good set of standards
: >>>>>>> out there. They should not just ignore them willy
nilly.
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>> Murray
: >>>>>>> --------------
: >>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
message
: >>>>>>> news:e3r$JCAXHHA.4216@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>>>> Very simple if the browser can understand what is
want or is capable of display a page when
: >>>>>>>> the code is badly written this is a benefit for
the user * of the browser. Browsers that do
: >>>>>>>> not do this penalize users as a way of get back
at developers of the site, by making the
: >>>>>>>> site look bad.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> * User in this case, are folks that just want to
view a web site for the info it contains,
: >>>>>>>> they do not care how the site was coded, etc.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: >>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >>>>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> "P@tty Ayers"
<pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
: >>>>>>>> news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>>>>>I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is
"wrong" or not could be debated, but I can't
: >>>>>>>>>see how you can call it "penalizing" for the
other browsers to interpret code accurately
: >>>>>>>>>and correctly, Thomas.
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
: >>>>>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
: >>>>>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form,
Estimate Worksheet
: >>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
message
: >>>>>>>>> news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>>>>>> IE doesn't penalized users if the code is
wrong, but still readable, whereas other
: >>>>>>>>>> browsers do.
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: >>>>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: >>>>>>>>>> ==============================================
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com>
wrote in message
: >>>>>>>>>> news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: >>>>>>>>>>> Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you.
Other browsers will not. IE is wrong to do
: >>>>>>>>>>> this.
: >>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>>>> Murray
: >>>>>>>>>>> --------------
: >>>>>>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
: >>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote in message
: >>>>>>>>>>>
news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
: >>>>>>>>>>>> Would that make it appear on one computer and
not on another - I would assume
: >>>>>>>>>>>> a missing octothorpe would be an all or
nothing phenomenon?
: >>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Murray" wrote:
: >>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with
the octothorpe "#". Have you
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> done this?
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> #DDDDDD?
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Murray
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote in message
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex
colors EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > display different shades of gray in a
table. On my computer, and most
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have
a client who apparently can't
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look
white on her screen). She can see
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She
has a ATI Radeon Xpress with Benq
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a
different color, or is it simply
: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>
: >>
: >
: >
:
:
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| However, there are sites that view just fine and will never validated, unless redone.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
news:ub1K130XHHA.4940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Q: Why do the developers want the pages to validate?
> A: Answered by you: "Visitors to web sites only care that
> the site is viewable in the browser of their choice"
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OPr3xyzXHHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : Visitors to web sites only care that the site is viewable
> in the browser of their choice and has the
> : content they are looking for.
> :
> : The only people I have ever heard of, that are concerned
> about pages validating, are web developers.
> :
> : --
> : ==============================================
> : Thomas A. Rowe
> : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> :
> : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : ==============================================
> :
> :
> : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
> message
> : news:OelChuzXHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> : > They are the very definition of HTML. You can follow
> them or not. If you follow them, your pages
> : > will validate and you will be happy and prosperous. If
> you don't follow them, your teeth will get
> : > long, and you will be an ugly person.
> : >
> : > The community and the manufacturers have embraced them
> as the "standards". Call it what you will.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Murray
> : > --------------
> : > MVP FrontPage
> : >
> : >
> : > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OnG9QUzXHHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> : >> From Merriam-Webster Online:
> : >>
> : >> recommendation:
> : >>
> : >> 1a: the act of recommending
> : >> 1b: something (as a procedure) recommended
> : >>
> : >> The W3C states they provide recommendations. So far
> nowhere have I seen them state that they are
> : >> issuing "standards".
> : >> --
> : >> ==============================================
> : >> Thomas A. Rowe
> : >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : >>
> : >> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : >> ==============================================
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
> message
> : >> news:uB6e4NzXHHA.2552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> : >>> The recommendations are the standard.
> : >>>
> : >>> --
> : >>> Murray
> : >>> --------------
> : >>> MVP FrontPage
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> : >>> news:u303y9yXHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> : >>>> That is one way of looking at it, but that still
> doesn't make them standards.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> --
> : >>>> ==============================================
> : >>>> Thomas A. Rowe
> : >>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : >>>>
> : >>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : >>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> "Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote in
> message
> : >>>> news:uQNK3uyXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>> Well, Tom, it seems that all of the browser vendors
> are adopting a "standard" of adhering to
> : >>>>> the recommendations.
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> ;-)
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> --
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> Kevin Spencer
> : >>>>> Microsoft MVP
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> Help test our new betas,
> : >>>>> DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
> : >>>>> http://www.miradyne.net
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> : >>>>> news:%23EEXhvCXHHA.4624@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>> There are no HTML standards, just recommendations.
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> --
> : >>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
> : >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : >>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
> message
> : >>>>>> news:ej0NHoBXHHA.4240@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>>> This does NOT benefit the user. It confuses them.
> This attitude is what has gotten IE into
> : >>>>>>> the hole it's in now - all this making nice stuff.
> There's a perfectly good set of standards
> : >>>>>>> out there. They should not just ignore them willy
> nilly.
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>> Murray
> : >>>>>>> --------------
> : >>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
> message
> : >>>>>>> news:e3r$JCAXHHA.4216@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>>>> Very simple if the browser can understand what is
> want or is capable of display a page when
> : >>>>>>>> the code is badly written this is a benefit for
> the user * of the browser. Browsers that do
> : >>>>>>>> not do this penalize users as a way of get back
> at developers of the site, by making the
> : >>>>>>>> site look bad.
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> * User in this case, are folks that just want to
> view a web site for the info it contains,
> : >>>>>>>> they do not care how the site was coded, etc.
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
> : >>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : >>>>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> "P@tty Ayers"
> <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
> : >>>>>>>> news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>>>>>I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior is
> "wrong" or not could be debated, but I can't
> : >>>>>>>>>see how you can call it "penalizing" for the
> other browsers to interpret code accurately
> : >>>>>>>>>and correctly, Thomas.
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
> : >>>>>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
> : >>>>>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form,
> Estimate Worksheet
> : >>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
> message
> : >>>>>>>>> news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>>>>>> IE doesn't penalized users if the code is
> wrong, but still readable, whereas other
> : >>>>>>>>>> browsers do.
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
> : >>>>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> : >>>>>>>>>> ==============================================
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com>
> wrote in message
> : >>>>>>>>>> news:Opk1Tq1WHHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : >>>>>>>>>>> Yep - as Patty notes, IE will forgive you.
> Other browsers will not. IE is wrong to do
> : >>>>>>>>>>> this.
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>>>> Murray
> : >>>>>>>>>>> --------------
> : >>>>>>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com>
> wrote in message
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> news:AAD7134C-21ED-4833-BD26-1D1D0C09BFBF@microsoft.com...
> : >>>>>>>>>>>> Would that make it appear on one computer and
> not on another - I would assume
> : >>>>>>>>>>>> a missing octothorpe would be an all or
> nothing phenomenon?
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>> "Murray" wrote:
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> All hex color values MUST be prefixed with
> the octothorpe "#". Have you
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> done this?
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> #DDDDDD?
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> Murray
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Scott" <Scott@discussions.microsoft.com>
> wrote in message
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> news:F2991032-9D71-47DA-8337-121F8BE9D346@microsoft.com...
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >I have a frontpage site where I've used hex
> colors EEEEEE and F2F2F2 to
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > display different shades of gray in a
> table. On my computer, and most
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > others, it displays fine. However, I have
> a client who apparently can't
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > display EEEEEE or F2F2F2 (they all look
> white on her screen). She can see
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > DDDDDD (which is almost the same), She
> has a ATI Radeon Xpress with Benq
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > monitor. Is this common? Should I use a
> different color, or is it simply
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>> > some problem with her setup. Thanks
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>
> : >>
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| But you are just talking in circles.
Clients don't care if pages validate. They want them to work and be easily
updated.
You, as a developer have validation as your first priority - to make sure
that you haven't missed something stupid on your code (like a leading "#" on
a color value), and to troubleshoot any problems you are having. If the
pages validate, you can be pretty sure that your problems are not related to
code and are more in the realm of usage. Without validation you are blind
to this.
It makes no sense for a professional developer to dismiss validation as an
affectation (in my opinion).
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OPr3xyzXHHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Visitors to web sites only care that the site is viewable in the browser
> of their choice and has the content they are looking for.
>
> The only people I have ever heard of, that are concerned about pages
> validating, are web developers.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:OelChuzXHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Thomas A. Rowe 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| Validation is not a requirement to make a good and viewable web site... I am not saying that a
developer shouldn't validation, just that it is not a requirement. Developers are free to do
whatever they want.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:Opb8ms1XHHA.3520@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> But you are just talking in circles.
>
> Clients don't care if pages validate. They want them to work and be easily updated.
>
> You, as a developer have validation as your first priority - to make sure that you haven't missed
> something stupid on your code (like a leading "#" on a color value), and to troubleshoot any
> problems you are having. If the pages validate, you can be pretty sure that your problems are not
> related to code and are more in the realm of usage. Without validation you are blind to this.
>
> It makes no sense for a professional developer to dismiss validation as an affectation (in my
> opinion).
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message news:OPr3xyzXHHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-05, 6:16 pm |
| Right.
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:e7kVF51XHHA.408@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Validation is not a requirement to make a good and viewable web site... I
> am not saying that a developer shouldn't validation, just that it is not a
> requirement. Developers are free to do whatever they want.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
> ==============================================
>
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:Opb8ms1XHHA.3520@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2007-03-06, 6:16 pm |
| I might add here, that I for one am very glad that these "recommendations"
(a rose by any other name...) are being adopted by the browser vendors. I
know that, as a developer, I'm having a great deal less trouble getting my
pages to look the same in all current browsers. I only hope that IE6 goes
away soon...
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Help test our new betas,
DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
http://www.miradyne.net
"Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:O%23ULu$1XHHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Right.
>
> --
> Murray
> --------------
> MVP FrontPage
>
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:e7kVF51XHHA.408@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Murray 2007-03-06, 6:16 pm |
| Definitely. If my page validates, I can begin to relax about browser
issues. It's much easier to manage the site then....
--
Murray
--------------
MVP FrontPage
"Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote in message
news:e1xShTBYHHA.1300@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I might add here, that I for one am very glad that these "recommendations"
>(a rose by any other name...) are being adopted by the browser vendors. I
>know that, as a developer, I'm having a great deal less trouble getting my
>pages to look the same in all current browsers. I only hope that IE6 goes
>away soon...
>
> --
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
>
> Help test our new betas,
> DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
> http://www.miradyne.net
>
> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:O%23ULu$1XHHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Mike Mueller 2007-03-06, 6:16 pm |
| Agreed, and; unless they are being redone anyways, I would
just leave them alone.
"Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:erwGI%230XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
: However, there are sites that view just fine and will
never validated, unless redone.
:
: --
: ==============================================
: Thomas A. Rowe
: Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
:
: http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: ==============================================
:
:
: "Mike Mueller" <MyName@ecinet.net.net> wrote in message
: news:ub1K130XHHA.4940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
: > Q: Why do the developers want the pages to validate?
: > A: Answered by you: "Visitors to web sites only care
that
: > the site is viewable in the browser of their choice"
: >
: >
: > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: > news:OPr3xyzXHHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: > : Visitors to web sites only care that the site is
viewable
: > in the browser of their choice and has the
: > : content they are looking for.
: > :
: > : The only people I have ever heard of, that are
concerned
: > about pages validating, are web developers.
: > :
: > : --
: > : ==============================================
: > : Thomas A. Rowe
: > : Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > :
: > : http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : ==============================================
: > :
: > :
: > : "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
: > message
: > : news:OelChuzXHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > : > They are the very definition of HTML. You can
follow
: > them or not. If you follow them, your pages
: > : > will validate and you will be happy and prosperous.
If
: > you don't follow them, your teeth will get
: > : > long, and you will be an ugly person.
: > : >
: > : > The community and the manufacturers have embraced
them
: > as the "standards". Call it what you will.
: > : >
: > : > --
: > : > Murray
: > : > --------------
: > : > MVP FrontPage
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in message
: > news:OnG9QUzXHHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
: > : >> From Merriam-Webster Online:
: > : >>
: > : >> recommendation:
: > : >>
: > : >> 1a: the act of recommending
: > : >> 1b: something (as a procedure) recommended
: > : >>
: > : >> The W3C states they provide recommendations. So far
: > nowhere have I seen them state that they are
: > : >> issuing "standards".
: > : >> --
: > : >> ==============================================
: > : >> Thomas A. Rowe
: > : >> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > : >>
: > : >> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : >> ==============================================
: > : >>
: > : >>
: > : >> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
: > message
: > : >> news:uB6e4NzXHHA.2552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > : >>> The recommendations are the standard.
: > : >>>
: > : >>> --
: > : >>> Murray
: > : >>> --------------
: > : >>> MVP FrontPage
: > : >>>
: > : >>>
: > : >>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
message
: > : >>> news:u303y9yXHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>> That is one way of looking at it, but that still
: > doesn't make them standards.
: > : >>>>
: > : >>>> --
: > : >>>> ==============================================
: > : >>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: > : >>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > : >>>>
: > : >>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : >>>> ==============================================
: > : >>>>
: > : >>>>
: > : >>>> "Kevin Spencer" <unclechutney@nothinks.com> wrote
in
: > message
: > : >>>> news:uQNK3uyXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>>> Well, Tom, it seems that all of the browser
vendors
: > are adopting a "standard" of adhering to
: > : >>>>> the recommendations.
: > : >>>>>
: > : >>>>> ;-)
: > : >>>>>
: > : >>>>> --
: > : >>>>>
: > : >>>>> Kevin Spencer
: > : >>>>> Microsoft MVP
: > : >>>>>
: > : >>>>> Help test our new betas,
: > : >>>>> DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
: > : >>>>> http://www.miradyne.net
: > : >>>>>
: > : >>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
message
: > : >>>>> news:%23EEXhvCXHHA.4624@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>>>> There are no HTML standards, just
recommendations.
: > : >>>>>>
: > : >>>>>> --
: > : >>>>>> ==============================================
: > : >>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: > : >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > : >>>>>>
: > : >>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : >>>>>> ==============================================
: > : >>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>
: > : >>>>>> "Murray" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com>
wrote in
: > message
: > : >>>>>> news:ej0NHoBXHHA.4240@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>>>>> This does NOT benefit the user. It confuses
them.
: > This attitude is what has gotten IE into
: > : >>>>>>> the hole it's in now - all this making nice
stuff.
: > There's a perfectly good set of standards
: > : >>>>>>> out there. They should not just ignore them
willy
: > nilly.
: > : >>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>> --
: > : >>>>>>> Murray
: > : >>>>>>> --------------
: > : >>>>>>> MVP FrontPage
: > : >>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
: > message
: > : >>>>>>> news:e3r$JCAXHHA.4216@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>>>>>> Very simple if the browser can understand
what is
: > want or is capable of display a page when
: > : >>>>>>>> the code is badly written this is a benefit
for
: > the user * of the browser. Browsers that do
: > : >>>>>>>> not do this penalize users as a way of get
back
: > at developers of the site, by making the
: > : >>>>>>>> site look bad.
: > : >>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>> * User in this case, are folks that just want
to
: > view a web site for the info it contains,
: > : >>>>>>>> they do not care how the site was coded, etc.
: > : >>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>>
==============================================
: > : >>>>>>>> Thomas A. Rowe
: > : >>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
: > : >>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>> http://www.Ecom-Data.com
: > : >>>>>>>>
==============================================
: > : >>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>> "P@tty Ayers"
: > <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEXXXXXXXXXX> wrote in message
: > : >>>>>>>> news:eOIam33WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
: > : >>>>>>>>>I guess whether IE's laissez-faire behavior
is
: > "wrong" or not could be debated, but I can't
: > : >>>>>>>>>see how you can call it "penalizing" for the
: > other browsers to interpret code accurately
: > : >>>>>>>>>and correctly, Thomas.
: > : >>>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>>> --
: > : >>>>>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
: > : >>>>>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web
Development
: > : >>>>>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form,
: > Estimate Worksheet
: > : >>>>>>>>> --
: > : >>>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>>>
: > : >>>>>>>>> "Thomas A. Rowe" <tarowe@mvps.org> wrote in
: > message
: > : >>>>>>>>> news:uweW2n3WHHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... | | |