Front Page - MS vs Mozilla, Netscape

Author

MS vs Mozilla, Netscape

deacon

2004-07-27, 11:14 pm

Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view it in IE and every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it, this same page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or Mozilla. I have read that Netscape-Mozilla int
erprets the code correctly and IE does not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display differently?

Murray

2004-07-27, 11:14 pm

Sadly, yes. Netscape/Mozilla is interpreting according to the Standards
written by W3C (http://www.w3.org). Microsoft is often not following these
standards. I'm not being judgmental here, just stating the underlying
facts. The problem is that Microsoft and W3C sometimes do not see eye to
eye on rendering issues. Each feels that they have the right and the
responsibility to follow their own interpretation.

Notwithstanding this, IE6 is pretty good at Standards compliance, but there
are some notable exceptions.

Over and above the standards issue, IE6 is also much more forgiving than
Netscape/Mozilla/FireFox/etc. So you will see IE6 make very intelligent
guesses at how a page should be rendered despite a train-wreck of code.
Perhaps some of the pages you have looked at in both browsers fall into this
category?

--
Murray

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view it in IE and
every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it, this same
page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or Mozilla. I
have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly and IE does
not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display differently?
>

Mark Fitzpatrick

2004-07-27, 11:14 pm

The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to be the
absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x supported
HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it was 3.2 and
rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.

Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same in all
browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain width, place
a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel high) and
set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems from older
drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended minimums,
thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content didn't equal
that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how the
browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.

In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the Navigator engine
is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current Mozilla browser
is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design team builds
the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying to implement
what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make universal designs,
you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in particular browsers
and trying to design accordingly.

Hope this helps,
Mark Fitzpatrick
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view it in IE and
every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it, this same
page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or Mozilla. I
have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly and IE does
not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display differently?
>

deacon

2004-07-28, 7:14 am

It hardly seems worth the effort to make everything work ok in Netscape and Mozilla given this scenario and seeing as how IE dominates the browsers

"Murray" wrote:

> Sadly, yes. Netscape/Mozilla is interpreting according to the Standards
> written by W3C (http://www.w3.org). Microsoft is often not following these
> standards. I'm not being judgmental here, just stating the underlying
> facts. The problem is that Microsoft and W3C sometimes do not see eye to
> eye on rendering issues. Each feels that they have the right and the
> responsibility to follow their own interpretation.
>
> Notwithstanding this, IE6 is pretty good at Standards compliance, but there
> are some notable exceptions.
>
> Over and above the standards issue, IE6 is also much more forgiving than
> Netscape/Mozilla/FireFox/etc. So you will see IE6 make very intelligent
> guesses at how a page should be rendered despite a train-wreck of code.
> Perhaps some of the pages you have looked at in both browsers fall into this
> category?
>
> --
> Murray
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it, this same
> page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or Mozilla. I
> have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly and IE does
> not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display differently?
>
>
>

Murray

2004-07-28, 12:14 pm

It's not so hard, really. Code to standards. Add IE conditionals for
specific issues. You're done.

My site is mostly CSS and looks identical in all browsers (at least those I
have tested).

http://www.great-web-sights.com

--
Murray

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FD604E32-F2FA-4DC4-8B16-E82AF5D9093B@microsoft.com...
> It hardly seems worth the effort to make everything work ok in Netscape
and Mozilla given this scenario and seeing as how IE dominates the browsers[color=darkred]
>
> "Murray" wrote:
>
these[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
there[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
does[color=darkred]
differently?[color=darkred]

chris leeds

2004-07-28, 12:14 pm

a good design _should_ work in every browser. I guess I'm a little lazy
since I'll test explorer 6, and the fairly current mozilla and opera. I
haven't tested down to nn4 in a while, and I'm comfortable with that. ;-)

HTH

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP FrontPage

The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FD604E32-F2FA-4DC4-8B16-E82AF5D9093B@microsoft.com...
> It hardly seems worth the effort to make everything work ok in Netscape
and Mozilla given this scenario and seeing as how IE dominates the browsers[color=darkred]
>
> "Murray" wrote:
>
these[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
there[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
does[color=darkred]
differently?[color=darkred]

Murray

2004-07-28, 12:15 pm

A good design may fail, but one coded with sound methods will not! 8)

--
Murray

"chris leeds" <chris@nedp.net> wrote in message
news:uqSKGWKdEHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> a good design _should_ work in every browser. I guess I'm a little lazy
> since I'll test explorer 6, and the fairly current mozilla and opera. I
> haven't tested down to nn4 in a while, and I'm comfortable with that. ;-)
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Chris Leeds,
> Microsoft MVP FrontPage
>
> The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all
the
> spam.
> Please feel free to contact me here:
> http://nedp.net/contact/
> --
>
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:FD604E32-F2FA-4DC4-8B16-E82AF5D9093B@microsoft.com...
> and Mozilla given this scenario and seeing as how IE dominates the
browsers
Standards[color=darkred]
> these
> to
> there
than[color=darkred]
intelligent[color=darkred]
code.[color=darkred]
into[color=darkred]
> this
IE[color=darkred]
> and
same[color=darkred]
I[color=darkred]
> does
> differently?
>
>

Richard Weerts

2004-07-28, 12:15 pm

w3c.org has a validator that works well for any standard you are attempting
to comply with.

Works great to find that elusive missing closing tag or whatever.

Richard Weerts

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FD604E32-F2FA-4DC4-8B16-E82AF5D9093B@microsoft.com...
> It hardly seems worth the effort to make everything work ok in Netscape
and Mozilla given this scenario and seeing as how IE dominates the browsers[color=darkred]
>
> "Murray" wrote:
>
these[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
there[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
does[color=darkred]
differently?[color=darkred]

deacon

2004-07-28, 7:16 pm

Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the irregularities of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that works in all browsers?

"Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:

> The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to be the
> absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x supported
> HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it was 3.2 and
> rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.
>
> Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same in all
> browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain width, place
> a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel high) and
> set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems from older
> drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended minimums,
> thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content didn't equal
> that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how the
> browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.
>
> In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the Navigator engine
> is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current Mozilla browser
> is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design team builds
> the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying to implement
> what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make universal designs,
> you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in particular browsers
> and trying to design accordingly.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mark Fitzpatrick
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it, this same
> page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or Mozilla. I
> have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly and IE does
> not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display differently?
>
>
>

dave

2004-07-28, 11:15 pm

For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
> Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the irregularities
of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that works in
all browsers?[color=darkred]
>
> "Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:
>
supported[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
place[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
minimums,[color=darkred]
equal[color=darkred]
engine[color=darkred]
browser[color=darkred]
builds[color=darkred]
implement[color=darkred]
designs,[color=darkred]
browsers[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
does[color=darkred]
differently?[color=darkred]

Craig Schiller

2004-07-28, 11:15 pm

That's a really silly comment, my friend.

Craig

dave wrote:
[color=darkred]
> For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
> of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that works in
> all browsers?
> supported
> and
> place
> and
> minimums,
> equal
> engine
> browser
> builds
> implement
> designs,
> browsers
> and
> does
> differently?

deacon

2004-07-29, 4:15 am

For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave and the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am asking is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in the field of this technology, mak
e thier editor work in other browsers as well. They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I knew how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for me.

"dave" wrote:

> For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
> of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that works in
> all browsers?
> supported
> and
> place
> and
> minimums,
> equal
> engine
> browser
> builds
> implement
> designs,
> browsers
> and
> does
> differently?
>
>
>

chris leeds

2004-07-29, 4:15 am

what specifically is failing for you?

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP FrontPage

The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave and
the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am asking
is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in the
field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as well.
They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I knew
how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for me.[color=darkred]
>
> "dave" wrote:
>
irregularities[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
3.2[color=darkred]
all[color=darkred]
width,[color=darkred]
high)[color=darkred]
older[color=darkred]
didn't[color=darkred]
team[color=darkred]
IE[color=darkred]
same[color=darkred]
Mozilla. I[color=darkred]

deacon

2004-07-29, 7:14 am

I am working with a FP2003 Layout Table that has a header, 4 columns, and a footer. Whenever I add text to the RH column, all 4 of the columns in the IE browser expand to accomodate the text that exceeds the current set table height in the RH column. In
the Netscape Browser, it expands only the RH column and pushes the footer down away from the other columns.

"chris leeds" wrote:

> what specifically is failing for you?
>
> --
> Chris Leeds,
> Microsoft MVP FrontPage
>
> The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
> spam.
> Please feel free to contact me here:
> http://nedp.net/contact/
> --
>
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am asking
> is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in the
> field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as well.
> They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I knew
> how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for me.
> irregularities
> in
> the
> 3.2
> all
> width,
> high)
> older
> didn't
> team
> IE
> same
> Mozilla. I
>
>
>

Kevin Spencer

2004-07-29, 12:15 pm

Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean that
he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize how
silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave and
the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am asking
is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in the
field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as well.
They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I knew
how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for me.[color=darkred]
>
> "dave" wrote:
>
irregularities[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
3.2[color=darkred]
all[color=darkred]
width,[color=darkred]
high)[color=darkred]
older[color=darkred]
didn't[color=darkred]
team[color=darkred]
IE[color=darkred]
same[color=darkred]
Mozilla. I[color=darkred]

chris leeds

2004-07-29, 12:15 pm

can you publish this page to the web so I can see how it's working. I bet
there's a reason, and an answer.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP FrontPage

The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:12AC1280-F623-4651-B3FC-7376A4E3F1C7@microsoft.com...
> I am working with a FP2003 Layout Table that has a header, 4 columns, and
a footer. Whenever I add text to the RH column, all 4 of the columns in the
IE browser expand to accomodate the text that exceeds the current set table
height in the RH column. In the Netscape Browser, it expands only the RH
column and pushes the footer down away from the other columns.[color=darkred]
>
> "chris leeds" wrote:
>
the[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
asking[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
well.[color=darkred]
knew[color=darkred]
me.[color=darkred]
works[color=darkred]
be[color=darkred]
was[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
Navigator[color=darkred]
Mozilla[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
universal[color=darkred]
particular[color=darkred]
it in[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and IE[color=darkred]

deacon

2004-07-29, 7:15 pm

Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no knowledge of html coding skills" to create
web pages. Now you are telling me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put up s
ome kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
Thats why we bought it.

"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

> Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean that
> he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
> about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
> technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize how
> silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.
>
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> ..Net Developer
> Microsoft MVP
> Big things are made up
> of lots of little things.
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am asking
> is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in the
> field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as well.
> They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I knew
> how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for me.
> irregularities
> in
> the
> 3.2
> all
> width,
> high)
> older
> didn't
> team
> IE
> same
> Mozilla. I
>
>
>

chris leeds

2004-07-29, 7:15 pm

put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP FrontPage

The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
> Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.[color=darkred]
> Thats why we bought it.
>
> "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
>
that[color=darkred]
how[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
asking[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
well.[color=darkred]
knew[color=darkred]
me.[color=darkred]
works[color=darkred]
be[color=darkred]
was[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
Navigator[color=darkred]
Mozilla[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
universal[color=darkred]
particular[color=darkred]
it in[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and IE[color=darkred]

deacon

2004-07-29, 7:16 pm

This is the url. http://www.geocities.com/jamiefraser.geo/tables7.htm
The top table displays ok in IE,Netscape, Mozillia. Adding text in the right column of the lower table makes is push the footer away from the table in Netscape and Mozilla but it is ok in IE. The source code for the td's for both tables show the height
at 313 but the Front Page Editor is displaying the upper table at 313 and the lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any of those cells in the second row of the lower table, Front Page is showing the properties as 420 but when I view the co
de in Front Page, it is 313.
So my question now is, why is Front Page telling me one thing under Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing in the code?

"chris leeds" wrote:

> put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
> absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
> restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)
>
> --
> Chris Leeds,
> Microsoft MVP FrontPage
>
> The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
> spam.
> Please feel free to contact me here:
> http://nedp.net/contact/
> --
>
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
> advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
> truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
> knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
> me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
> technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
> millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
> up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
> that
> how
> and
> asking
> the
> well.
> knew
> me.
> works
> be
> was
> in
> from
> the
> Navigator
> Mozilla
> to
> universal
> particular
> it in
> this
> and IE
>
>
>

Kevin Spencer

2004-07-29, 7:16 pm

Yeah, I've been complaining about that advertising for several years now.
It's not my statement that doesn't make sense. It's marketing a development
product that requires knopwledge to use as something which requires little
or no knowledge to use that is the problem. Of course, strictly speaking,
the advertising statement is correct, but misleading. You can indeed make a
web page without HTML knowledge with FrontPage. But we all know that is
never all that is needed. A web site is more than a single page, and it is
generally viewed in a good number of client environments. And the landscape
of web development is constantly changing. All of this means that, no matter
how good your dev software is, you're going to need to know something about
what you're working with in order to build what you want. FrontPage is
arguably the easiest dev software for webs. But that doesn't mean that
anyone can create a decent web site with it without any knowledge. It only
means that anyone can create a web site with it without any knowledge.

In any case, complaining isn't going to get anything done. I would suggest
boning up on the Web, and HTML, just for a start.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
> Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.[color=darkred]
> Thats why we bought it.
>
> "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
>
that[color=darkred]
how[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
asking[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
well.[color=darkred]
knew[color=darkred]
me.[color=darkred]
works[color=darkred]
be[color=darkred]
was[color=darkred]
in[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
Navigator[color=darkred]
Mozilla[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
universal[color=darkred]
particular[color=darkred]
it in[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
and IE[color=darkred]

Stefan B Rusynko

2004-07-30, 12:15 pm

Html table / cell sizes are defined by the W3C as minimums
- adjusted for cell content if required
- interpreted by the browsers differently (if at all)

When you set a table / cell height (not universally supported by all browsers / platforms)
- all that does is set a minimum size for a non empty cell (browsers collapse empty cells)

If you add content in a cell that exceeds that height (as is the case in your last cell on bottom right)
- In Design view the Layout Table Cell properties are showing you WYSIWYG for IE
- the cell has become larger than 420 or 313 (what ever it is "set" to in code view) because of the content being more than will fit
in that set height, so the Layout tool is actually reporting what it will be when rendered in the browser - that is WYSIWYG
If you change the font size in the content (or reduce the content text) the Layout tool will show you a smaller height (up till the
minimum height you set in code)
Or if you want to reset the code view to match change the rendered size in the Cell Formatting Task pane
(of course that will change in the rendering browser based on the users screen resolution and other table / cell sizes in the page -
say if a use selects View Text Size largest)

PS
the height set in code view (view source from your site) for all your outer cells in the bottom table is 420, not 313
- select the correct cell in the Quick Tag Selector before switching to Code View
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
_____________________________________________

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:7DD6AF46-C6B4-43A1-814A-6D4E2C3F501C@microsoft.com...
| This is the url. http://www.geocities.com/jamiefraser.geo/tables7.htm
| The top table displays ok in IE,Netscape, Mozillia. Adding text in the right column of the lower table makes is push the footer
away from the table in Netscape and Mozilla but it is ok in IE. The source code for the td's for both tables show the height at 313
but the Front Page Editor is displaying the upper table at 313 and the lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any of
those cells in the second row of the lower table, Front Page is showing the properties as 420 but when I view the code in Front
Page, it is 313.
| So my question now is, why is Front Page telling me one thing under Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing in
the code?
|
| "chris leeds" wrote:
|
| > put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
| > absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
| > restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)
| >
| > --
| > Chris Leeds,
| > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| >
| > The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
| > spam.
| > Please feel free to contact me here:
| > http://nedp.net/contact/
| > --
| >
| >
| > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
| > > Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
| > advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
| > truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
| > knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
| > me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
| > technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
| > millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
| > up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
| > > Thats why we bought it.
| > >
| > > "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
| > >
| > > > Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean
| > that
| > > > he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
| > > > about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
| > > > technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize
| > how
| > > > silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.
| > > >
| > > > --
| > > > HTH,
| > > > Kevin Spencer
| > > > ..Net Developer
| > > > Microsoft MVP
| > > > Big things are made up
| > > > of lots of little things.
| > > >
| > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > > > news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
| > > > > For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave
| > and
| > > > the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am
| > asking
| > > > is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in
| > the
| > > > field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as
| > well.
| > > > They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I
| > knew
| > > > how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for
| > me.
| > > > >
| > > > > "dave" wrote:
| > > > >
| > > > > > For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
| > > > > >
| > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > > > > > news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
| > > > > > > Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the
| > > > irregularities
| > > > > > of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that
| > works
| > > > in
| > > > > > all browsers?
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > "Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > > The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to
| > be
| > > > the
| > > > > > > > absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x
| > > > > > supported
| > > > > > > > HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it
| > was
| > > > 3.2
| > > > > > and
| > > > > > > > rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > > Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same
| > in
| > > > all
| > > > > > > > browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain
| > > > width,
| > > > > > place
| > > > > > > > a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel
| > > > high)
| > > > > > and
| > > > > > > > set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems
| > from
| > > > older
| > > > > > > > drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended
| > > > > > minimums,
| > > > > > > > thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content
| > > > didn't
| > > > > > equal
| > > > > > > > that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how
| > the
| > > > > > > > browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > > In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the
| > Navigator
| > > > > > engine
| > > > > > > > is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current
| > Mozilla
| > > > > > browser
| > > > > > > > is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design
| > > > team
| > > > > > builds
| > > > > > > > the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying
| > to
| > > > > > implement
| > > > > > > > what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make
| > universal
| > > > > > designs,
| > > > > > > > you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in
| > particular
| > > > > > browsers
| > > > > > > > and trying to design accordingly.
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > > Hope this helps,
| > > > > > > > Mark Fitzpatrick
| > > > > > > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > > > > > > > news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
| > > > > > > > > Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view
| > it in
| > > > IE
| > > > > > and
| > > > > > > > every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it,
| > this
| > > > same
| > > > > > > > page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or
| > > > Mozilla. I
| > > > > > > > have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly
| > and IE
| > > > > > does
| > > > > > > > not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display
| > > > > > differently?
| > > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > > > >
| > > > > >
| > > > > >
| > > > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| >
| >
| >

deacon

2004-07-30, 7:15 pm

Thanks for the reply Stefan......I don't recall having this problem with the standard tables, only with the layout tables in FP2003. The standard tables did not specify a height attribute and the layout tables do, so from what I can see, whenever content
exceeds that initial height value, I have to go in and change the code to the size specified in the layout cell formatting pane, is that correct??

"Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:

> Html table / cell sizes are defined by the W3C as minimums
> - adjusted for cell content if required
> - interpreted by the browsers differently (if at all)
>
> When you set a table / cell height (not universally supported by all browsers / platforms)
> - all that does is set a minimum size for a non empty cell (browsers collapse empty cells)
>
> If you add content in a cell that exceeds that height (as is the case in your last cell on bottom right)
> - In Design view the Layout Table Cell properties are showing you WYSIWYG for IE
> - the cell has become larger than 420 or 313 (what ever it is "set" to in code view) because of the content being more than will fit
> in that set height, so the Layout tool is actually reporting what it will be when rendered in the browser - that is WYSIWYG
> If you change the font size in the content (or reduce the content text) the Layout tool will show you a smaller height (up till the
> minimum height you set in code)
> Or if you want to reset the code view to match change the rendered size in the Cell Formatting Task pane
> (of course that will change in the rendering browser based on the users screen resolution and other table / cell sizes in the page -
> say if a use selects View Text Size largest)
>
>
> PS
> the height set in code view (view source from your site) for all your outer cells in the bottom table is 420, not 313
> - select the correct cell in the Quick Tag Selector before switching to Code View
> --
>
> _____________________________________________
> SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
> "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
> To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> _____________________________________________
>
>
> "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:7DD6AF46-C6B4-43A1-814A-6D4E2C3F501C@microsoft.com...
> | This is the url. http://www.geocities.com/jamiefraser.geo/tables7.htm
> | The top table displays ok in IE,Netscape, Mozillia. Adding text in the right column of the lower table makes is push the footer
> away from the table in Netscape and Mozilla but it is ok in IE. The source code for the td's for both tables show the height at 313
> but the Front Page Editor is displaying the upper table at 313 and the lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any of
> those cells in the second row of the lower table, Front Page is showing the properties as 420 but when I view the code in Front
> Page, it is 313.
> | So my question now is, why is Front Page telling me one thing under Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing in
> the code?
> |
> | "chris leeds" wrote:
> |
> | > put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
> | > absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
> | > restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)
> | >
> | > --
> | > Chris Leeds,
> | > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
> | >
> | > The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
> | > spam.
> | > Please feel free to contact me here:
> | > http://nedp.net/contact/
> | > --
> | >
> | >
> | > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
> | > > Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
> | > advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
> | > truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
> | > knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
> | > me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
> | > technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
> | > millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
> | > up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
> | > > Thats why we bought it.
> | > >
> | > > "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> | > >
> | > > > Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean
> | > that
> | > > > he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
> | > > > about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
> | > > > technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize
> | > how
> | > > > silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.
> | > > >
> | > > > --
> | > > > HTH,
> | > > > Kevin Spencer
> | > > > ..Net Developer
> | > > > Microsoft MVP
> | > > > Big things are made up
> | > > > of lots of little things.
> | > > >
> | > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave
> | > and
> | > > > the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am
> | > asking
> | > > > is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in
> | > the
> | > > > field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as
> | > well.
> | > > > They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I
> | > knew
> | > > > how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for
> | > me.
> | > > > >
> | > > > > "dave" wrote:
> | > > > >
> | > > > > > For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > > > news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > > > Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the
> | > > > irregularities
> | > > > > > of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that
> | > works
> | > > > in
> | > > > > > all browsers?
> | > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > "Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:
> | > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to
> | > be
> | > > > the
> | > > > > > > > absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x
> | > > > > > supported
> | > > > > > > > HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it
> | > was
> | > > > 3.2
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same
> | > in
> | > > > all
> | > > > > > > > browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain
> | > > > width,
> | > > > > > place
> | > > > > > > > a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel
> | > > > high)
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems
> | > from
> | > > > older
> | > > > > > > > drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended
> | > > > > > minimums,
> | > > > > > > > thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content
> | > > > didn't
> | > > > > > equal
> | > > > > > > > that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how
> | > the
> | > > > > > > > browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the
> | > Navigator
> | > > > > > engine
> | > > > > > > > is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current
> | > Mozilla
> | > > > > > browser
> | > > > > > > > is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design
> | > > > team
> | > > > > > builds
> | > > > > > > > the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying
> | > to
> | > > > > > implement
> | > > > > > > > what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make
> | > universal
> | > > > > > designs,
> | > > > > > > > you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in
> | > particular
> | > > > > > browsers
> | > > > > > > > and trying to design accordingly.
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > Hope this helps,
> | > > > > > > > Mark Fitzpatrick
> | > > > > > > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > > > > > > > news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
> | > > > > > > > > Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view
> | > it in
> | > > > IE
> | > > > > > and
> | > > > > > > > every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it,
> | > this
> | > > > same
> | > > > > > > > page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or
> | > > > Mozilla. I
> | > > > > > > > have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly
> | > and IE
> | > > > > > does
> | > > > > > > > not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display
> | > > > > > differently?
> | > > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | >
> | >
> | >
>
>
>

chris leeds

2004-07-30, 11:14 pm

in theory you're right, but, consider that what the size of text you see and
is displayed in your browser can be totally different than what a visitor
might see.
Font size etc. can be manipulated by the end user.

Generally when considering a design you've got to be able to have the site
remain similar in various browsers, operating systems, screen resolution and
monitor size combinations, not to mention color display modes.

For me, being a little less "heavy handed" with tables (or divs for that
matter) helps a lot. I like to think of the side(s) top, and bottom of the
whole page as a kind of picture frame, with the content in the subject area.
this way you can be a little more restrictive with the "look" but let the
"content" sort of stay fluid.

If it doesn't make much sense, it will if you stay at it.

HTH

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP FrontPage

The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:83E29AD2-0BFB-4142-992D-133F1DF62FE8@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the reply Stefan......I don't recall having this problem with
the standard tables, only with the layout tables in FP2003. The standard
tables did not specify a height attribute and the layout tables do, so from
what I can see, whenever content exceeds that initial height value, I have
to go in and change the code to the size specified in the layout cell
formatting pane, is that correct??[color=darkred]
>
> "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
>
browsers / platforms)[color=darkred]
collapse empty cells)[color=darkred]
your last cell on bottom right)[color=darkred]
WYSIWYG for IE[color=darkred]
in code view) because of the content being more than will fit[color=darkred]
will be when rendered in the browser - that is WYSIWYG[color=darkred]
the Layout tool will show you a smaller height (up till the[color=darkred]
in the Cell Formatting Task pane[color=darkred]
screen resolution and other table / cell sizes in the page -[color=darkred]
outer cells in the bottom table is 420, not 313[color=darkred]
Code View[color=darkred]
news:7DD6AF46-C6B4-43A1-814A-6D4E2C3F501C@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
the right column of the lower table makes is push the footer[color=darkred]
source code for the td's for both tables show the height at 313[color=darkred]
lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any of[color=darkred]
the properties as 420 but when I view the code in Front[color=darkred]
Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing in[color=darkred]
that's[color=darkred]
it'd be as[color=darkred]
all the[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
this as a[color=darkred]
no[color=darkred]
telling[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
are[color=darkred]
like to put[color=darkred]
mean[color=darkred]
technology is[color=darkred]
that[color=darkred]
realize[color=darkred]
greater Dave[color=darkred]
I am[color=darkred]
leaders in[color=darkred]
browsers as[color=darkred]
works. If I[color=darkred]
code for[color=darkred]
that[color=darkred]
used to[color=darkred]
Navigator 3.x[color=darkred]
instead it[color=darkred]
Navigator.[color=darkred]
the same[color=darkred]
certain[color=darkred]
1 pixel[color=darkred]
stems[color=darkred]
recommended[color=darkred]
content[color=darkred]
even how[color=darkred]
boxes.[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
current[color=darkred]
Each design[color=darkred]
trying[color=darkred]
message[color=darkred]
news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
you view[color=darkred]
is it,[color=darkred]
Netscape or[color=darkred]
correctly[color=darkred]
display[color=darkred]

Stefan B Rusynko

2004-07-31, 7:14 am

I don't use the Table Layout Tool because it only works in px and is too restrictive
- and don't set the height of any cells containing just text content
- the only place a cell height in px makes sense is when you are trying to "trap" images of a fixed px size
--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
_____________________________________________

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:83E29AD2-0BFB-4142-992D-133F1DF62FE8@microsoft.com...
| Thanks for the reply Stefan......I don't recall having this problem with the standard tables, only with the layout tables in
FP2003. The standard tables did not specify a height attribute and the layout tables do, so from what I can see, whenever content
exceeds that initial height value, I have to go in and change the code to the size specified in the layout cell formatting pane, is
that correct??
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
|
| > Html table / cell sizes are defined by the W3C as minimums
| > - adjusted for cell content if required
| > - interpreted by the browsers differently (if at all)
| >
| > When you set a table / cell height (not universally supported by all browsers / platforms)
| > - all that does is set a minimum size for a non empty cell (browsers collapse empty cells)
| >
| > If you add content in a cell that exceeds that height (as is the case in your last cell on bottom right)
| > - In Design view the Layout Table Cell properties are showing you WYSIWYG for IE
| > - the cell has become larger than 420 or 313 (what ever it is "set" to in code view) because of the content being more than will
fit
| > in that set height, so the Layout tool is actually reporting what it will be when rendered in the browser - that is WYSIWYG
| > If you change the font size in the content (or reduce the content text) the Layout tool will show you a smaller height (up till
the
| > minimum height you set in code)
| > Or if you want to reset the code view to match change the rendered size in the Cell Formatting Task pane
| > (of course that will change in the rendering browser based on the users screen resolution and other table / cell sizes in the
page -
| > say if a use selects View Text Size largest)
| >
| >
| > PS
| > the height set in code view (view source from your site) for all your outer cells in the bottom table is 420, not 313
| > - select the correct cell in the Quick Tag Selector before switching to Code View
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:7DD6AF46-C6B4-43A1-814A-6D4E2C3F501C@microsoft.com...
| > | This is the url. http://www.geocities.com/jamiefraser.geo/tables7.htm
| > | The top table displays ok in IE,Netscape, Mozillia. Adding text in the right column of the lower table makes is push the
footer
| > away from the table in Netscape and Mozilla but it is ok in IE. The source code for the td's for both tables show the height at
313
| > but the Front Page Editor is displaying the upper table at 313 and the lower table at 420. In other words, when I click on any
of
| > those cells in the second row of the lower table, Front Page is showing the properties as 420 but when I view the code in Front
| > Page, it is 313.
| > | So my question now is, why is Front Page telling me one thing under Layout Table Cell properties and displaying another thing
in
| > the code?
| > |
| > | "chris leeds" wrote:
| > |
| > | > put up your offending page and we'll take a look. there's _nothing_ that's
| > | > absolutely wysiwyg, if it was you wouldn't like what you see. ;-) it'd be as
| > | > restrictive as an iron maiden. (IMHO)
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Chris Leeds,
| > | > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| > | >
| > | > The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
| > | > spam.
| > | > Please feel free to contact me here:
| > | > http://nedp.net/contact/
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:4DEE99EF-F987-493E-AC59-09B3A009072B@microsoft.com...
| > | > > Hi Kevin, I think maybe you need to go back and re-read some of the
| > | > advertising that MS has done on the FP Editor. They represented this as a
| > | > truly WYSIWYG editor thus making it "easy for those with little or no
| > | > knowledge of html coding skills" to create web pages. Now you are telling
| > | > me that I should not have bought this product because I don't know the
| > | > technology. Your statement does not make any sense because there are
| > | > millions of us out here that dont have this technology and would like to put
| > | > up some kind of web page and have it work resasonably well.
| > | > > Thats why we bought it.
| > | > >
| > | > > "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
| > | > >
| > | > > > Just because a carpenter knows all about building houses doesn't mean
| > | > that
| > | > > > he doesn't need a table saw. Not knowing anything about a technology is
| > | > > > about the worst reason I can think of for buying tools to use in that
| > | > > > technology. If you did know much about the technology, you would realize
| > | > how
| > | > > > silly a demand you are making of Microsoft.
| > | > > >
| > | > > > --
| > | > > > HTH,
| > | > > > Kevin Spencer
| > | > > > ..Net Developer
| > | > > > Microsoft MVP
| > | > > > Big things are made up
| > | > > > of lots of little things.
| > | > > >
| > | > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > > > news:847D82E2-B406-4B6D-B700-C466A4F3F0EA@microsoft.com...
| > | > > > > For some of us senior citizens the learning curve is much greater Dave
| > | > and
| > | > > > the ability to get out and take courses is also restricted. All I am
| > | > asking
| > | > > > is "why", if MS knows all these things exist, cant they as leaders in
| > | > the
| > | > > > field of this technology, make thier editor work in other browsers as
| > | > well.
| > | > > > They are the ones that know all about this code and how it works. If I
| > | > knew
| > | > > > how it worked, I would not have bought Front Page to create the code for
| > | > me.
| > | > > > >
| > | > > > > "dave" wrote:
| > | > > > >
| > | > > > > > For the same reason you cant be bothered to learn properly?
| > | > > > > >
| > | > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > > > > > news:2A85FA01-139D-4107-BE1F-3A6B0464216F@microsoft.com...
| > | > > > > > > Why, in a nutshell, can't miscrosoft take into account the
| > | > > > irregularities
| > | > > > > > of the other browsers and design Front Page to produce code that
| > | > works
| > | > > > in
| > | > > > > > all browsers?
| > | > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > "Mark Fitzpatrick" wrote:
| > | > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > > The standards are only recommendations really. Netscape used to
| > | > be
| > | > > > the
| > | > > > > > > > absolute worste browser for standards compliance. Navigator 3.x
| > | > > > > > supported
| > | > > > > > > > HTML 3.0. Unfortunately, there never was an HTML 3.0, instead it
| > | > was
| > | > > > 3.2
| > | > > > > > and
| > | > > > > > > > rather different then what Netscape implemented in Navigator.
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > > Basically, there are tricks of getting things to look the same
| > | > in
| > | > > > all
| > | > > > > > > > browsers. For example, to ensure that a table cell is a certain
| > | > > > width,
| > | > > > > > place
| > | > > > > > > > a spacer image (a transparent gif that's 1 pixel wide by 1 pixel
| > | > > > high)
| > | > > > > > and
| > | > > > > > > > set it to the width that you need the cell to be. This stems
| > | > from
| > | > > > older
| > | > > > > > > > drafts of the HTML spec said that table widths are a recommended
| > | > > > > > minimums,
| > | > > > > > > > thus the browsers were able to ignore the width if the content
| > | > > > didn't
| > | > > > > > equal
| > | > > > > > > > that number. There are lots of little issues like this, even how
| > | > the
| > | > > > > > > > browsers render fonts, especially in things like text boxes.
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > > In a nutshell, each browser has it's own engine. Even the
| > | > Navigator
| > | > > > > > engine
| > | > > > > > > > is different then the current Mozilla engine as the current
| > | > Mozilla
| > | > > > > > browser
| > | > > > > > > > is several versions ahead of the Navigator 7 engine. Each design
| > | > > > team
| > | > > > > > builds
| > | > > > > > > > the engines using their interpretation of the standards, trying
| > | > to
| > | > > > > > implement
| > | > > > > > > > what they feel are the best set of items. To truly make
| > | > universal
| > | > > > > > designs,
| > | > > > > > > > you'll have to learn the tricks used for doing things in
| > | > particular
| > | > > > > > browsers
| > | > > > > > > > and trying to design accordingly.
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > > Hope this helps,
| > | > > > > > > > Mark Fitzpatrick
| > | > > > > > > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > > "deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > | > > > > > > > news:C1D21652-0C5F-4056-AD21-0CE2A1260963@microsoft.com...
| > | > > > > > > > > Whenever you create a web page using Front Page and you view
| > | > it in
| > | > > > IE
| > | > > > > > and
| > | > > > > > > > every thing seems to work just the way you planned, why is it,
| > | > this
| > | > > > same
| > | > > > > > > > page can and oftren does, display differently in Netscape or
| > | > > > Mozilla. I
| > | > > > > > > > have read that Netscape-Mozilla interprets the code correctly
| > | > and IE
| > | > > > > > does
| > | > > > > > > > not. Is this true? If not, what is it that makes them display
| > | > > > > > differently?
| > | > > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > > > >
| > | > > > > >
| > | > > > > >
| > | > > > > >
| > | > > >
| > | > > >
| > | > > >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| >
| >
| >

Murray

2004-07-31, 11:14 pm

This is how HTML tables behave. They flex to accommodate their contents.
They do this regardless of the dimensions you have set on the table.
Building stable tables takes some study. When you do this, you will realize
that the best approach to tables is to not rely on dimensions at all, but to
allow the table to collapse completely with the contents holding it open.

When I build tables, I never use cell dimensions - in fact I explicitly
remove them.

--
Murray

"deacon" <deacon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:12AC1280-F623-4651-B3FC-7376A4E3F1C7@microsoft.com...
> I am working with a FP2003 Layout Table that has a header, 4 columns, and
a footer. Whenever I add text to the RH column, all 4 of the columns in the
IE browser expand to accomodate the text that exceeds the current set table
height in the RH column. In the Netscape Browser, it expands only the RH
column and pushes the footer down away from the other columns.[color=darkred]
>
> "chris leeds" wrote:
>
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Navigator[color=darkred]
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