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| Louise 2006-02-27, 6:17 pm |
| I update a newspaper every month which is created in quark. (I'm an
adobe indesign person myself) When I cut and paste the text from quark I
have to first paste it into something like word. If I copy and paste
directly from quark to DW I get all these crazy code bits and can't
save. I get a message from DW 92004mx that states "the document's
current encoding can not correctly save all of the characters within the
document.l You may want to change to UTF-8 or an encoding that supports
the special characters in this document.
so I figured out the word route out of necessity, but then I pick up
crappy word extra code, <br>'s at the end of every line and so on, which
I have to go through and take out by hand.
Is there an easy way to import quark docs? I'm sure it takes me at
least four hours more than it needs to each month.
thanks for any answers
L
| |
| darrel 2006-02-27, 6:17 pm |
|
> so I figured out the word route out of necessity, but then I pick up
> crappy word extra code, <br>'s at the end of every line and so on, which I
> have to go through and take out by hand.
>
> Is there an easy way to import quark docs? I'm sure it takes me at least
> four hours more than it needs to each month.
For starters, don't paste into word...paste in to wordpad or textedit.
Secondly, you (or your newspaper) should not be authoring directly in
QuarkXPress. DTP apps like that should be 'end of line' formatting
stops...not content sources.
Ideally, you'd be creating content in a clean, semantic, style-free manner
then sending a copy of that to the DTP app and another copy to the web app.
In a pinch, get the authors to author their content in MS Word. Teach them
how to use proper word styles. Then use DW on the PC or HTMLTidy to strip
out all the bad MS Word HTML.
-Darrel
| |
| Louise 2006-02-27, 10:14 pm |
| that's what I have been doing, but it still gives me <br>s at the end of
every line, even when there is no line break needed.
I'd love to skip the word part altogether, but am stuck with it if need
be.
Since you're an ACE adobe community expert, do you know when indesign
and DW will work together?
Murray *ACE* wrote:
> Paste from Quark into Word. Paste from Word into DW. It's pretty simple.
>
| |
| Louise 2006-02-27, 10:14 pm |
| what is so different between word pad and word in this instance? Just
curious.
I just did a test on textedit app (I'm on mac) and it seems to work
reasonably well and I can turn off imbedded css.
I was hoping there was a way I could skip word and go right from quark...
the quark version is the version I receive for the web version, it's
what they layout the newspaper in. they receive the content from various
sources. My job is simply to take that and update a website monthly, not
to tell them how to run their business, so it's a slippery slope when I
start to give them advice in that department.
My experience is that clean up word html doesn't capture much in DW.
thank you, it's great feedback
darrel wrote:
>
>
> For starters, don't paste into word...paste in to wordpad or textedit.
>
> Secondly, you (or your newspaper) should not be authoring directly in
> QuarkXPress. DTP apps like that should be 'end of line' formatting
> stops...not content sources.
>
> Ideally, you'd be creating content in a clean, semantic, style-free manner
> then sending a copy of that to the DTP app and another copy to the web app.
>
> In a pinch, get the authors to author their content in MS Word. Teach them
> how to use proper word styles. Then use DW on the PC or HTMLTidy to strip
> out all the bad MS Word HTML.
>
> -Darrel
>
>
| |
| darrel 2006-02-27, 10:14 pm |
|
> that's what I have been doing, but it still gives me <br>s at the end of
> every line, even when there is no line break needed.
That's because someone is editing the text in QuarkXpress and hitting return
manually most likely.
> Since you're an ACE adobe community expert, do you know when indesign and
> DW will work together?
Again, DTP apps should NOT be considered source apps. They are end-of-road
apps for formatting for a particular medium. The issue is a workflow issue
at your newspaper, not a softare issue.
-Darrel
| |
| Louise 2006-02-27, 10:14 pm |
| thanks Darrel:
I don't know may graphic designers who rely on word for much these days.
I rarely do anything in word, and I don't know any other designers who
touch it. So while I understand your thinking, my feeling is that with
adobe suite apps being the standard for most of us, they are often used
as source apps too. We're just waiting until everything works together
nicely. (dream)
darrel wrote:
>
>
> That's because someone is editing the text in QuarkXpress and hitting return
> manually most likely.
>
>
>
>
> Again, DTP apps should NOT be considered source apps. They are end-of-road
> apps for formatting for a particular medium. The issue is a workflow issue
> at your newspaper, not a softare issue.
>
> -Darrel
>
>
| |
| Baxter 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
| We're just waiting until everything works together
nicely. (dream)
Do you think that was even thought of in the merger?
Time will tell I'm sure.
Dave
"Louise" <Louise@NOSPAMwhitedogdesign.com> wrote in message
news:du0429$c3c$1@forums.macromedia.com...[color=darkred]
> thanks Darrel:
>
> I don't know may graphic designers who rely on word for much these days.
> I rarely do anything in word, and I don't know any other designers who
> touch it. So while I understand your thinking, my feeling is that with
> adobe suite apps being the standard for most of us, they are often used
> as source apps too. We're just waiting until everything works together
> nicely. (dream)
>
> darrel wrote:
>
return[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
end-of-road[color=darkred]
issue[color=darkred]
| |
| darrel 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
| > I don't know may graphic designers who rely on word for much these days. I
> rarely do anything in word, and I don't know any other designers who touch
> it.
Graphic designers are writing the articles for the newspaper?
> So while I understand your thinking, my feeling is that with adobe suite
> apps being the standard for most of us, they are often used as source apps
> too. We're just waiting until everything works together nicely. (dream)
It's definitely a dream. ;o)
Seriously, though, this is typical newspaper workflow:
writers -> editors -> copyeditors -> typsetters -> paste up team
One shouldn't be using a DTP app until that final step...the 'paste up
team'...which for print, would be InDesign, for the web, in your case,
Dreamweaver.
PRIOR to those steps, the text should be text. Not put into any specific
format yet.
It's like trying to get your vinyl album into surround sound DVD. Both the
DVD and the vinyl are end-of-line formats. you want to source both media
from the raw original studio recordings. ;o)
-Darrel
| |
| darrel 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
| > Do you think that was even thought of in the merger?
For the record, InDesign supposedly takes in XML just fine. In theory, you'd
be writing your content in some sort of content management system that could
then deliver XML to whoever needs it...be it the print layout artists using
InDesign, the web developers using DW, RSS feeds, or whatever...
-Darrel
| |
| darrel 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
|
> what is so different between word pad and word in this instance? Just
> curious.
A simple text editor will strip out everything that WORD has (well, except
line breaks). It's a cheap/dirty way to get clean, albeit completely
unformatted text from MS Word.
> I was hoping there was a way I could skip word and go right from quark...
Not anytime soon.
> the quark version is the version I receive for the web version, it's what
> they layout the newspaper in. they receive the content from various
> sources.
Tell them NOT to send you the XPress file, but the source files.
> My job is simply to take that and update a website monthly, not to tell
> them how to run their business, so it's a slippery slope when I start to
> give them advice in that department.
Your job is probably to make it easy and less expensive for them. If they're
better off paying your hourly rate to reformat text then so be it.
Telling them 'the better way' to do it isn't telling them how to run their
business as much as you simply providing a service that they are paying you
for...web consulting.
-Darrel
| |
| Murray *ACE* 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
| > Since you're an ACE adobe community expert, do you know when indesign and
> DW will work together?
Nope - sorry.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
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http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Louise" <Louise@NOSPAMwhitedogdesign.com> wrote in message
news:44038ED3.8040103@NOSPAMwhitedogdesign.com...[color=darkred]
> that's what I have been doing, but it still gives me <br>s at the end of
> every line, even when there is no line break needed.
>
> I'd love to skip the word part altogether, but am stuck with it if need
> be.
>
> Since you're an ACE adobe community expert, do you know when indesign and
> DW will work together?
>
>
> Murray *ACE* wrote:
>
| |
| Tim G 2006-02-27, 10:15 pm |
|
"darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:du07ks$gg1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>
> A simple text editor will strip out everything that WORD has (well, except
> line breaks). It's a cheap/dirty way to get clean, albeit completely
> unformatted text from MS Word.
>
>
> Not anytime soon.
Um, paste text only, paste text only....
8^
| |
| Osgood 2006-02-28, 3:15 am |
| darrel wrote:
> Secondly, you (or your newspaper) should not be authoring directly in
> QuarkXPress. DTP apps like that should be 'end of line' formatting
> stops...not content sources.
>
> Ideally, you'd be creating content in a clean, semantic, style-free manner
> then sending a copy of that to the DTP app and another copy to the web app.
> In a pinch, get the authors to author their content in MS Word. Teach them
> how to use proper word styles. Then use DW on the PC or HTMLTidy to strip
> out all the bad MS Word HTML.
In an ideal situation that would work. However in my experience there is
a lot of editing that actually goes on AFTER the word file has been
quark formated.
I'm often asked to send copy, which has been radically altered from the
original 'Word' file I recieve.
The only way to be sure that the correct copy has been sent is to either
send the formatted quark file, or copy and paste into a 'word' document,
which can be a pain if you have several text boxes to collect the text
from and lots of pages.
Unfortunately patience is a virtue.
Maybe save the quark doc as a pdf and copy the text from that. I think
that way the text loses its formatting.
| |
| Louise 2006-02-28, 6:18 pm |
| I agree here. PDF's are a great idea of course...
Osgood wrote:
> darrel wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In an ideal situation that would work. However in my experience there is
> a lot of editing that actually goes on AFTER the word file has been
> quark formated.
>
> I'm often asked to send copy, which has been radically altered from the
> original 'Word' file I recieve.
>
> The only way to be sure that the correct copy has been sent is to either
> send the formatted quark file, or copy and paste into a 'word' document,
> which can be a pain if you have several text boxes to collect the text
> from and lots of pages.
>
> Unfortunately patience is a virtue.
>
> Maybe save the quark doc as a pdf and copy the text from that. I think
> that way the text loses its formatting.
>
>
>
>
| |
| Louise 2006-02-28, 6:18 pm |
| on mac this doesn't seem to happen on the first paste, so it's a matter
of copying again, and pasting again to get the option of paste text
only. it's what I end up doing, just hoping there is a way to go from
a to b without the various stopping points inbetween. thank you!
Tim G wrote:
> "darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:du07ks$gg1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>
>
> Um, paste text only, paste text only....
>
> 8^
>
>
| |
| Louise 2006-02-28, 6:18 pm |
| it's much easier to get the quark files as they're more complete, the
final version and have the placement of images etc. any styling, and I
can get a sense of the look and feel for the article. it's a small
operation and I'm simply trying to streamline. They do a good job and
have been doing it for a while so no need to reinvent wheels at this point.
text edit is a great idea, thanks
darrel wrote:
>
>
> A simple text editor will strip out everything that WORD has (well, except
> line breaks). It's a cheap/dirty way to get clean, albeit completely
> unformatted text from MS Word.
>
>
>
>
> Not anytime soon.
>
>
>
>
> Tell them NOT to send you the XPress file, but the source files.
>
>
>
>
> Your job is probably to make it easy and less expensive for them. If they're
> better off paying your hourly rate to reformat text then so be it.
>
> Telling them 'the better way' to do it isn't telling them how to run their
> business as much as you simply providing a service that they are paying you
> for...web consulting.
>
> -Darrel
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| Bonnie 2006-02-28, 6:19 pm |
| Louise wrote:
> that's what I have been doing, but it still gives me <br>s at the end of
> every line, even when there is no line break needed.
>
> I'd love to skip the word part altogether, but am stuck with it if need be.
>
Louise,
You should be able to edit out the manual breaks using find-and-replace
and special characters in Word. I agree with Darrell, don't use Quark
for this, use the same Word file to send text to Quark and to DW for
formatting.
--
Bonnie in California
kroko at
sbcglobal dot net
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/...ts/CTDSites.woa
| |
| darrel 2006-02-28, 6:20 pm |
|
> In an ideal situation that would work. However in my experience there is
> a lot of editing that actually goes on AFTER the word file has been quark
> formated.
Copyfitting often happens at that stage, but, obviously, online that
shouldn't be an issue.
If the newspaper is, indeed, still copyediting at the DTP stage, then their
workflow is simply incorrect.
At that stage, not much you can do other than copy, paste and reformat.
-Darrel
| |
|
| Look into "repurposing". That's your solution.
http://www.quark.com/solutions/industry/advertising/
--
Irvin
-------------------------
http://www.pixel69.com
"Louise" <Louise@NOSPAMwhitedogdesign.com> wrote in message
news:dtvvuv$6qg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>I update a newspaper every month which is created in quark. (I'm an adobe
>indesign person myself) When I cut and paste the text from quark I have to
>first paste it into something like word. If I copy and paste directly from
>quark to DW I get all these crazy code bits and can't save. I get a message
>from DW 92004mx that states "the document's current encoding can not
>correctly save all of the characters within the document.l You may want to
>change to UTF-8 or an encoding that supports the special characters in this
>document.
>
> so I figured out the word route out of necessity, but then I pick up
> crappy word extra code, <br>'s at the end of every line and so on, which I
> have to go through and take out by hand.
>
> Is there an easy way to import quark docs? I'm sure it takes me at least
> four hours more than it needs to each month.
>
> thanks for any answers
>
> L
| |
|
| "Re-purposing" is her answer. Basically, the same concept you just
delineated.
--
Irvin
-------------------------
http://www.pixel69.com
"darrel" <notreal@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:du07fi$gap$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> For the record, InDesign supposedly takes in XML just fine. In theory,
> you'd be writing your content in some sort of content management system
> that could then deliver XML to whoever needs it...be it the print layout
> artists using InDesign, the web developers using DW, RSS feeds, or
> whatever...
>
> -Darrel
>
| |
| Osgood 2006-02-28, 6:20 pm |
| darrel wrote:
> If the newspaper is, indeed, still copyediting at the DTP stage, then their
> workflow is simply incorrect.
Not really. It happens with many publications. It goes through a few dtp
operators/editors even before it gets to the sub-editor.
I've never work on anything yet were the initial Word document was the
difinitive document :( How I wished it was.
| |
|
|
| darrel 2006-02-28, 6:20 pm |
|
> Not really. It happens with many publications. It goes through a few dtp
> operators/editors even before it gets to the sub-editor.
I'm sure it happens. It's just bad workflow. It's like changing your
plumbing after the sheetrock is up. It happens, but it's XXX backwords. ;o)
Granted, in the real world, there's lot of XXX backwordsiness out there. ;o)
-Darrel
| |
| Osgood 2006-02-28, 6:20 pm |
| darrel wrote:
> Granted, in the real world, there's lot of XXX backwordsiness out there. ;o)
lol, true, very true.
| |
|
| Hi, Osgood
Ye, I'm familiar with the beta. I think it will prove a solid upgrade.
http://www.quark.com/products/xpress/seven/features.cfm
But, then again, after exclusively using Quark for almost 20 years now, I'm
a LITTLE biased...
--
Irvin
-------------------------
http://www.pixel69.com
"Osgood" <notavailable@atthisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:du1rei$oqc$2@forums.macromedia.com...
> irvin wrote:
>
> Have you tested the beta Quark 7 out yet Irvin. If so what's it like in
> your opinion?
>
| |
| Osgood 2006-02-28, 6:20 pm |
| irvin wrote:
> Hi, Osgood
>
> Ye, I'm familiar with the beta. I think it will prove a solid upgrade.
>
> http://www.quark.com/products/xpress/seven/features.cfm
> But, then again, after exclusively using Quark for almost 20 years now, I'm
> a LITTLE biased...
Yeah. I must say I'm quite excited about the upgrade from what I've
read. It's not before time that Xpress had a major overhaul.
I think I go back to version 3.2 whenever that arrived on these shores.
Before that I was licking, sticking and getting stuck into the cowgum.
I gave InDesign a run out but that acted too much like Illustrator, a
bit sluggish so I decided against going down that route, although some
of the features where very good. Looks like some of those have made it
to Xpress 7.
When it finally makes general release I'll probably wait a couple of
months before I upgrade. There is bound to be a few bugs, so I will see
if a patch shortly follows.
| |
| Louise 2006-02-28, 10:15 pm |
| all good info, thanks.
I don't know anyone, except for this one gd who lays out this newspaper
in quark, who doesn't use indesign. It's what is being taught in school,
most of the printers we work with prefer it, most of the publications we
work with ask for indesign files. It's a great product if you can give
it a go. Quark didn't change for years before 7, and while that's okay
for those who have been using it for a long time, it's a bit silly not
to fine tune and update the product to keep up with the printing
industry. but that's just my own personal rant.
but do give indiesign a try, it really is great, and very solid.
I don't think the newspaper is going to change how they do their work
flow, so I'll work around them. It's a monthly update. I get paid. it's
fine. I used a text edit app to cut and paste and then got rid of all
the <br>s
oh well
Osgood wrote:
> irvin wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah. I must say I'm quite excited about the upgrade from what I've
> read. It's not before time that Xpress had a major overhaul.
>
> I think I go back to version 3.2 whenever that arrived on these shores.
> Before that I was licking, sticking and getting stuck into the cowgum.
>
> I gave InDesign a run out but that acted too much like Illustrator, a
> bit sluggish so I decided against going down that route, although some
> of the features where very good. Looks like some of those have made it
> to Xpress 7.
>
> When it finally makes general release I'll probably wait a couple of
> months before I upgrade. There is bound to be a few bugs, so I will see
> if a patch shortly follows.
>
|
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