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MenuMachine Equivalent for DW
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| caplite 2005-09-21, 7:24 pm |
| Hello- I'm afraid to admit it, but I normally use GoLive with MenuMachine to
create cascading menus. I have a project for which I will be using using DW MX,
and I was wondering if any of you could recommend a product roughly equivalent
to MenuMachine for use in a DW site? I found several products by searching, but
I was hoping one of them is the "user's choice" here!
Thanks, DB~
| |
| darrel 2005-09-21, 7:24 pm |
| > Hello- I'm afraid to admit it, but I normally use GoLive with MenuMachine
to
> create cascading menus. I have a project for which I will be using using
DW MX,
> and I was wondering if any of you could recommend a product roughly
equivalent
> to MenuMachine for use in a DW site? I found several products by
searching, but
> I was hoping one of them is the "user's choice" here!
There are only two fly-out navigation menu systems that are worth
mentioning:
http://www.prjectseven.com
http://www.udm4.com
These are the only two that address most of the accessibility and usability
issues that plague most of the other options.
Both can be built from a simple nested UL structure.
-Darrel
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| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-21, 7:24 pm |
| Can you point me at one of these pages that uses menu machine?
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"caplite" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dgs8h6$io8$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Hello- I'm afraid to admit it, but I normally use GoLive with MenuMachine
> to
> create cascading menus. I have a project for which I will be using using
> DW MX,
> and I was wondering if any of you could recommend a product roughly
> equivalent
> to MenuMachine for use in a DW site? I found several products by
> searching, but
> I was hoping one of them is the "user's choice" here!
> Thanks, DB~
>
| |
|
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| caplite 2005-09-24, 6:18 pm |
| darrel- Thanks for the information.... I'll check them out!
DB~
| |
| caplite 2005-09-24, 6:18 pm |
| Or-
http//:bigbangextensions.com
That's the home site for MenuMachine.
DB~
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-24, 6:18 pm |
| Yeah - thanks. The PVII menus or the TJK Designs menus will do the same
only better, since all the markup required to maintain them is visible on
the HTML page, and not within some 3rd party UI.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"caplite" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dh48lt$mv7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray- Try:
> http://www.denijsdesign.de/menumachine/
> This is a site that shoiws various examples of MenuMachine menus.
> Dennis~
| |
| Rob Keniger 2005-09-29, 3:20 am |
| Yeah - thanks. The PVII menus or the TJK Designs menus will do the same
only better, since all the markup required to maintain them is visible on
the HTML page, and not within some 3rd party UI.
It's debatable as to whether this is actually "better". MenuMachine creates a
link to an automatically-generated navigation map page for those
browsers/search engines that can't see the menu structure. This enables the
menu code to be stored externally, so there are only four short lines of code
in any page that contains a menu. You can then update the menus in your entire
site by uploading a single file. The external menu definitions file is cached
by the browser, which certainly does not occur with list-based menus.
Still, MenuMachine is only available for GoLive so it's not really relevant
here.
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-29, 6:16 pm |
| Point taken. I feel that being able to edit the menus directly in the HTML
page, though, is of the greatest value - this is my personal opinion,
however.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Rob Keniger" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhfuvt$s0u$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Yeah - thanks. The PVII menus or the TJK Designs menus will do the same
> only better, since all the markup required to maintain them is visible on
> the HTML page, and not within some 3rd party UI.
>
> It's debatable as to whether this is actually "better". MenuMachine
> creates a
> link to an automatically-generated navigation map page for those
> browsers/search engines that can't see the menu structure. This enables
> the
> menu code to be stored externally, so there are only four short lines of
> code
> in any page that contains a menu. You can then update the menus in your
> entire
> site by uploading a single file. The external menu definitions file is
> cached
> by the browser, which certainly does not occur with list-based menus.
>
> Still, MenuMachine is only available for GoLive so it's not really
> relevant
> here.
>
| |
| Al Sparber- PVII 2005-09-29, 6:17 pm |
| "Rob Keniger" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhfuvt$s0u$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Yeah - thanks. The PVII menus or the TJK Designs menus will do the
> same
> only better, since all the markup required to maintain them is visible
> on
> the HTML page, and not within some 3rd party UI.
>
> It's debatable as to whether this is actually "better". MenuMachine
> creates a
> link to an automatically-generated navigation map page for those
> browsers/search engines that can't see the menu structure. This
> enables the
> menu code to be stored externally, so there are only four short lines
> of code
> in any page that contains a menu. You can then update the menus in
> your entire
> site by uploading a single file. The external menu definitions file is
> cached
> by the browser, which certainly does not occur with list-based menus.
Hi Rob. That's just not true. You were making plausible sense up until
that last sentence. But it's also irelevant since the menus do not seem
to work well in assistive technology or with a keyboard. There are more
unfortunate souls in this world who are blind or unable to use a mouse
than there are people who merely elect to disable JavaScript.
> Still, MenuMachine is only available for GoLive so it's not really
> relevant
> here.
That's correct.
Best,
--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs
are scheduled for next Tuesday".
| |
| Rob Keniger 2005-09-29, 6:17 pm |
| Yes, you're right, from this point of view list-based menus are more
accessible, I don't deny it. However, when we looked at the number of our
customers wanting instant site-wide updates as opposed to the number of
customers wanting keyboard accessibility there was simply no choice in the
matter. Of course, there's nothing preventing us from adding both options and
we are certainly considering it, especially since list-based menus are so
gauche at the moment :-)
| |
| Al Sparber- PVII 2005-09-29, 6:17 pm |
| "Rob Keniger" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhgojs$731$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Yes, you're right, from this point of view list-based menus are more
> accessible, I don't deny it. However, when we looked at the number of
> our
> customers wanting instant site-wide updates as opposed to the number
> of
> customers wanting keyboard accessibility there was simply no choice in
> the
> matter. Of course, there's nothing preventing us from adding both
> options and
> we are certainly considering it, especially since list-based menus are
> so
> gauche at the moment :-)
Customers can cause so much confusion sometimes :-) I just wish
Dreamweaver offered the rich extension API that GoLive does. Our
development backgrounds cause us to feel like Grand Prix drivers stuck
in a Mini Cooper when it comes to creating UIs in Dreamweaver.
--
Al
| |
| Win Day 2005-09-29, 6:18 pm |
| On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:01:48 +0000 (UTC), "Rob Keniger"
<webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:
>Yes, you're right, from this point of view list-based menus are more
>accessible, I don't deny it. However, when we looked at the number of our
>customers wanting instant site-wide updates as opposed to the number of
>customers wanting keyboard accessibility there was simply no choice in the
>matter. Of course, there's nothing preventing us from adding both options and
>we are certainly considering it, especially since list-based menus are so
>gauche at the moment :-)
List based menu in a server side include? It's the route I take more
and more these days.
<curious> Why are list based menus gauche? </curious>
Win
--
Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
Skype winifredday
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-29, 6:18 pm |
| Because they are not droit?
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Win Day" <winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com> wrote in message
news:u94oj19t8mb2h9hh4f7d8ncea5d0oslje3@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:01:48 +0000 (UTC), "Rob Keniger"
> <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:
>
>
> List based menu in a server side include? It's the route I take more
> and more these days.
>
> <curious> Why are list based menus gauche? </curious>
>
> Win
> --
> Win Day, Wild Rose Websites
> http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
> winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com
> Skype winifredday
| |
| Al Sparber- PVII 2005-09-29, 6:18 pm |
| Starboard, too.
--
Al
"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dhh3k8$phi$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Because they are not droit?
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "Win Day" <winday@NOSPAMwildrosewebsites.com> wrote in message
> news:u94oj19t8mb2h9hh4f7d8ncea5d0oslje3@4ax.com...
>
>
| |
| Rob Keniger 2005-09-30, 3:14 am |
| I just wish
Dreamweaver offered the rich extension API that GoLive does. Our
development backgrounds cause us to feel like Grand Prix drivers stuck
in a Mini Cooper when it comes to creating UIs in Dreamweaver.
Yes, I am all too well aware of the limitations of the DW SDK :-). I very much
hope that if Adobe decides they're going to create a "merged product" from DW
and GL that they keep the good bits of both SDKs. Then perhaps we can drive a
Mini Cooper with a Formula One engine. Actually, that sounds a bit scary...
Also to Win, SSIs + List-based includes certainly provide that functionality,
but since many of our customers wouldn't know SSI from a bar of soap it's not a
great solution for us. :-)
| |
| mikey_r 2005-09-30, 3:14 am |
| I got "bit" by the Project VII stuff as I was a GoLive and MenuMachine user, I
created a new site and used Project VII and went on my merry way. A month
later I realized only the home page was being found by robots because my home
had no external links in it. I am now looking at www.opencube.com menu
system although I did buy the Project VII one. www.udm4.com was mentioned but
I did not see a tool to create menus with udm, it appears to me that you have
to manually edit the menu in a text editor rather than a wysiwyg.
I knew better about java only menus and search engines but I didn't think.
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-30, 6:19 pm |
| > A month
> later I realized only the home page was being found by robots because my
> home
> had no external links in it.
Sorry - no PVII menu system ever would have done this to you.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"mikey_r" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhigcc$qv4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> I got "bit" by the Project VII stuff as I was a GoLive and MenuMachine
> user, I
> created a new site and used Project VII and went on my merry way. A month
> later I realized only the home page was being found by robots because my
> home
> had no external links in it. I am now looking at www.opencube.com menu
> system although I did buy the Project VII one. www.udm4.com was mentioned
> but
> I did not see a tool to create menus with udm, it appears to me that you
> have
> to manually edit the menu in a text editor rather than a wysiwyg.
>
> I knew better about java only menus and search engines but I didn't
> think.
>
| |
|
|
| mikey_r 2005-09-30, 6:21 pm |
| Murray, you are too quick, I corrected my post within minutes of noticing my
mistake. I typed in Project VII when I should have typed in AllWebMenus and
edited my post within minutes and you had already replied. Sorry !!!
My point was that a accessible menu is important and one should stay away
from a java only solution as I did on that page. I much prefer AllWebMenus
user interface for create menus over all the accesible menus generators I have
found but Project VII I think is the menu of choise these days and for good
reason if you want your entired site searched.
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2005-09-30, 6:21 pm |
| Edits do not propagate to the NNTP side of things, so your edit has vanished
into the cosmic bit-bucket. Even though the webforum allows you to do this,
and even though the people at Macromedia have known that this, along with
many other aspects of the integration of the webforum with the NNTP forum,
are broken and have been for years, they do not fix it. Don't get me
started....
Personally, I lump all of these all-javascript menu systems together, and
put them all in the dumper where they belong (Hier Menus, Xara, AllTheWeb,
etc....)
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"mikey_r" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhk6i8$g7n$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray, you are too quick, I corrected my post within minutes of noticing
> my
> mistake. I typed in Project VII when I should have typed in AllWebMenus
> and
> edited my post within minutes and you had already replied. Sorry !!!
>
> My point was that a accessible menu is important and one should stay away
> from a java only solution as I did on that page. I much prefer
> AllWebMenus
> user interface for create menus over all the accesible menus generators I
> have
> found but Project VII I think is the menu of choise these days and for
> good
> reason if you want your entired site searched.
>
| |
| Al Sparber- PVII 2005-09-30, 6:21 pm |
| No problem, Mikey :-)
I was scratching my head there for a moment - thanks a lot for
clarifying.
--
Al
"mikey_r" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dhk6i8$g7n$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray, you are too quick, I corrected my post within minutes of
> noticing my
> mistake. I typed in Project VII when I should have typed in
> AllWebMenus and
> edited my post within minutes and you had already replied. Sorry !!!
>
> My point was that a accessible menu is important and one should stay
> away
> from a java only solution as I did on that page. I much prefer
> AllWebMenus
> user interface for create menus over all the accesible menus
> generators I have
> found but Project VII I think is the menu of choise these days and for
> good
> reason if you want your entired site searched.
>
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