Dreamweaver - Tables vs. Layers (Divs)?

Author

Tables vs. Layers (Divs)?

gscott66

2005-08-08, 4:16 am

Murray or anyone,

Can you give me some advice on the pros and cons of using Layers vs Tables
for design (ie, CSS)? I am caught in the middle right now with people
telling to stick with tables and other say to go 100% layers. I want to use
(move to) CSS for all of my presentation needs and I would like to know
which option will alleviate much headache in the future. Any sound advice,
plus an article would help. I am learning to position with CSS and it would
nice to try layers (divs).

PS...I also tend to use the DW template function for many of my previous
works and they were done in Layout Tables/Table Cell. My last site had 50
pages and it was nice to update all at once. Does this make a difference
with layers?

--
Scott

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-08, 7:19 pm

The first thing you need to know is that using CSS to design your page and
using layers to design your page are as different as night and day. Layers
are div tags with inline CSS that positions it absolutely on the screen.
But they are only a small subset of the universe of CSS layout tools.
Furthermore, if you *really* mean 'do I use layers or tables' then the
answer is to definitely use tables.

Using layers as an exclusive layout methodology, when those layers will
contain more than images (i.e., content) will get you into deep trouble.
Write down the names of those who are telling you to use 100% layers and
send them to me. And, take them off your list of advisors - they know not
of what they speak.

See how many layers (inline, absolutely positioned div tags) you can find
here - http://www.great-web-sights.com. Yet that page has no tables.

> PS...I also tend to use the DW template function for many of my previous
> works and they were done in Layout Tables/Table Cell. My last site had 50
> pages and it was nice to update all at once. Does this make a difference
> with layers?

Not at all.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
news:dd6gsa$nbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray or anyone,
>
> Can you give me some advice on the pros and cons of using Layers vs Tables
> for design (ie, CSS)? I am caught in the middle right now with people
> telling to stick with tables and other say to go 100% layers. I want to
> use (move to) CSS for all of my presentation needs and I would like to
> know which option will alleviate much headache in the future. Any sound
> advice, plus an article would help. I am learning to position with CSS
> and it would nice to try layers (divs).
>
> PS...I also tend to use the DW template function for many of my previous
> works and they were done in Layout Tables/Table Cell. My last site had 50
> pages and it was nice to update all at once. Does this make a difference
> with layers?
>
> --
> Scott
>
>

gscott66

2005-08-08, 7:19 pm

Murray,

As always you've helped tremendously! Let me clarify something?

1. I will continue to use tables...but am I doing it in the correct manner?
I spread a layout table (800x600) and I insert table cells for the content
(leftnav, banner, main content, etc). I then label ID & Class for my CSS
and style from there. Correct?

2. When I paste other's code into DW and go to design (layout) mode, I see a
whole lot of "layout table" tabs. I am assuming I can place layout tables
w/in layout tables as well? I will also notice some "table cells" embedded
as well. I have tested this "nested layout table" concept and it appears to
work, but I have not styled it.

3. Do you have an article or tutorial that explains....""" Layers are div
tags with inline CSS that positions it absolutely on the screen.""""? When
would you use layers?

4. Am I correct in using the template function to save time and work?

Sorry for so many questions, but I read one thing and learn from the real
world another. I have grown in so many ways, but this layout (css + DW)
concept is frustrating me. If I can get over this hump, then I feel I can
move to the next level. Thanks in advance

--
Scott

"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dd7i0r$985$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> The first thing you need to know is that using CSS to design your page and
> using layers to design your page are as different as night and day.
> Layers are div tags with inline CSS that positions it absolutely on the
> screen. But they are only a small subset of the universe of CSS layout
> tools. Furthermore, if you *really* mean 'do I use layers or tables' then
> the answer is to definitely use tables.
>
> Using layers as an exclusive layout methodology, when those layers will
> contain more than images (i.e., content) will get you into deep trouble.
> Write down the names of those who are telling you to use 100% layers and
> send them to me. And, take them off your list of advisors - they know not
> of what they speak.
>
> See how many layers (inline, absolutely positioned div tags) you can find
> here - http://www.great-web-sights.com. Yet that page has no tables.
>
>
> Not at all.
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:dd6gsa$nbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-08, 7:19 pm

Inline below -

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
news:dd7mdd$fsj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray,
>
> As always you've helped tremendously! Let me clarify something?
>
> 1. I will continue to use tables...but am I doing it in the correct
> manner? I spread a layout table (800x600) and I insert table cells for the
> content (leftnav, banner, main content, etc). I then label ID & Class for
> my CSS and style from there. Correct?

It sounds like you are using Table Layout mode ("...insert table cells..."),
and that's a very poor choice. Spend some time learning how to work with
tables in Standard mode. It's worth the investment. A good developer
should be able to write a table in code view, and you need to hone those
skills. Layout mode is way too much smoke and mirrors which creates way too
fragile table structures. Go to the DW FAQ link in my sig to get started
with the table tutorials.

>
> 2. When I paste other's code into DW and go to design (layout) mode, I see
> a whole lot of "layout table" tabs. I am assuming I can place layout
> tables w/in layout tables as well? I will also notice some "table cells"
> embedded as well. I have tested this "nested layout table" concept and it
> appears to work, but I have not styled it.

Ew. See above.

>
> 3. Do you have an article or tutorial that explains....""" Layers are div
> tags with inline CSS that positions it absolutely on the screen.""""? When
> would you use layers?

Here's a post I have repeated (and updated) more than once here about layers
and tables -
you may find it helpful -

> If you need to use layers, then use them. If you want to begin using
> CSS-P
> methods, then use them by all means! But learn how to use them first -
>
> http://www.thepattysite.com/layer_laws.cfm
>
> The word "layer" was first coined by Netscape when it introduced its
> heinous
> and ill-fated <layer> tag with NN4x. It has since been adopted by the
> community to generally refer to absolutely positioned <div> tags, and
> Dreamweaver has
> propagated that usage. In fact, there is really no such HTML thing as a
> layer, but for the purposes of this discussion let's use the Dreamweaver
> sense of applying that term to absolutely positioned <div>s.
>
> ==============================
> In plain talk, a layer is like a magic carpet - it floats above your page
> content (any page content, including tables, images, text, etc.). It is
> unaffected by page margin settings because it is not really *on* the page.
> You can whisk it around on the page to provide motion (using timelines).
> You can make it visible or invisible using any of the actions appropriate
> to
> your browser selection (like onMouseOver, onClick, onLoad, etc.). You can
> dynamically clip or scroll the contents of layers to provide a windowed
> effect within a page. Layers are wondrous constructs that let you bring
> your pages to life! Get to know them - they are your friends....
> =================
>
> I would add in clarification and elaboration that layers are positionable
> elements and as such allow you to put content at any location you desire,
> regardless of the remainder of the content on the page.
>
> The downside to layers is the flip-side of their real benefit. Because
> they
> are absolutely positioned, they will be static page elements, i.e., they
> will not move to reflect changes in your browser viewport size *unless*
> you
> apply some custom javascript to the page that makes the layers move, or
> *unless* you use
> specific CSS-P techniques to make them move. There
> is no native support in HTML for moving layers - that's why it must be
> done
> with custom js or advanced CSS.
>
> If you consider that a 'layer' is really just a 'division' or <div> tag on
> the page, and that you can use CSS to position this <div> tag, as well as
> control the format of its contents and how it interacts with other content
> around it, then you can see how valuable it might be for use as a page
> layout tool! This impression is certainly true. As you become more
> familiar with CSS, you will learn how to replace a large part of your
> current page layout methodology with pure CSS positioned page elements.
> But it's something you should take your time with. It *is* the way of the
> future, so at some point we will all have to come to grips with using CSS
> in this manner.
>
> Some people use layers exclusively for page layout because of the ease
> with
> which they can be positioned. I do not recommend this approach for anyone
> that is new to layers or to CSS in general because it can be confusing and
> troublesome. This is partucularly the case if you will have multiple
> layers, each containing nominally uncontrolled/unstyled text. Viewers
> resizing this text in their browsers will see a disappointing overlap of
> paragraphs that is surely NOT what you desire.
>
> Tables, on the other hand, are most everything that layers are not! They
> are flexible page elements, in that native HTML can center, or right or
> left
> align a table - in other words, they can float around on your page
> depending
> on the browser's viewport width. Although originally added to HTML as a
> means of displaying tabular data *only*, tables quickly became the
> principal
> structural element used in page layout. They can be made rigid in order
> to
> provide a stable base for your page elements, including text, images,
> Flash,
> etc. They are easy to use and to learn (more or less), and behave in
> (mostly) predictable ways across browser and platform combinations - but
> there are quirks that must be learned to use them successfully. Luckily,
> most of these quirks are discussed here daily and are illuminated on the
> several sites devoted to Dreamweaver/HTML issues, including the Macromedia
> Technotes link in my sig below. In spite of these quirks, however, if you
> intend to be a credible web developer, you must learn how to build stable
> tables with your hands behind your back!
>
> So - to summarize...
>
> If you want motion on your page, you must use layers. If you want bedrock
> for your page layout, you must use tables at this point. Or not
> (particularly when you
> consider what you can do with CSS positioned page elements and NO tables
> at
> all - http://www.csszengarden.com).
>
> Bear in mind that advanced use of these two page elements can
> *significantly* blur these two criteria.
>
> And remember, the use of one does not preclude the use of the other on the
> same page. Use them both if the spirit moves you.
>
> There you go....
>
>

>
> 4. Am I correct in using the template function to save time and work?

Why not? I don't recommend them for sites with more than 100 pages, but
with the right approach even larger sites can remain amenable to the use of
templates. However, like any other tool in your amamentarium, the proper
and efficient use of Templates will require study.

>
> Sorry for so many questions, but I read one thing and learn from the real
> world another. I have grown in so many ways, but this layout (css + DW)
> concept is frustrating me. If I can get over this hump, then I feel I can
> move to the next level. Thanks in advance

Make sure you visit these in your journey -

http://www.projectseven.com/tutoria...acfly/index.htm
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx...weaver/css.html

>
> --
> Scott
>
> "Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
> news:dd7i0r$985$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>

gscott66

2005-08-08, 7:24 pm

Murray,

As always I am impressed and grateful....I understand the divs vs tables
thing now...give me a couple of days to digest the links and I'll give you a
follow-up posting.

One more quick question...

You said..."""Or not particularly when you consider what you can do with CSS
positioned page elements and NO tables at all -
http://www.csszengarden.com)."""

So...I can position w/out tables? I have visited ZEN before, will they
explain that concept there if I look for it?

And yes...I do want to become a credible designer, so I will look at
"standard mode" and even coding tables by hand. Though the laddar
frustrates the Hades out of me.

I'll get back and thanks again....
--
Scott

"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dd7n5l$h0j$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Inline below -
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:dd7mdd$fsj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> It sounds like you are using Table Layout mode ("...insert table
> cells..."), and that's a very poor choice. Spend some time learning how
> to work with tables in Standard mode. It's worth the investment. A good
> developer should be able to write a table in code view, and you need to
> hone those skills. Layout mode is way too much smoke and mirrors which
> creates way too fragile table structures. Go to the DW FAQ link in my sig
> to get started with the table tutorials.
>
>
> Ew. See above.
>
>
> Here's a post I have repeated (and updated) more than once here about
> layers and tables -
> you may find it helpful -
>
>
>
> Why not? I don't recommend them for sites with more than 100 pages, but
> with the right approach even larger sites can remain amenable to the use
> of templates. However, like any other tool in your amamentarium, the
> proper and efficient use of Templates will require study.
>
>
> Make sure you visit these in your journey -
>
> http://www.projectseven.com/tutoria...acfly/index.htm
> http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx...weaver/css.html
>
>
>

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-08, 7:24 pm

> You said..."""Or not particularly when you consider what you can do with
> CSS positioned page elements and NO tables at all -
> http://www.csszengarden.com)."""
>
> So...I can position w/out tables?

Certainly. Open DMX2004, and use FILE | New > Page Designs (CSS) > Create.
Go through the dialogs that ask you to select where to save the files, and
then look at the page. Open the Layers panel. Select the layers called
"tl" and "tr". Look at the code. Note that those are IMAGES, not DIV tags.
But they are positioned with CSS.

> I have visited ZEN before, will they explain that concept there if I look
> for it?

No.

> Though the laddar frustrates the Hades out of me.

Tables can be a powerful tool. You should be able to slap a stable and
reliable table together blindfolded. Layout mode just doesn't teach you how
to do that.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
news:dd7vj3$o7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray,
>
> As always I am impressed and grateful....I understand the divs vs tables
> thing now...give me a couple of days to digest the links and I'll give you
> a follow-up posting.
>
> One more quick question...
>
> You said..."""Or not particularly when you consider what you can do with
> CSS positioned page elements and NO tables at all -
> http://www.csszengarden.com)."""
>
> So...I can position w/out tables? I have visited ZEN before, will they
> explain that concept there if I look for it?
>
> And yes...I do want to become a credible designer, so I will look at
> "standard mode" and even coding tables by hand. Though the laddar
> frustrates the Hades out of me.
>
> I'll get back and thanks again....
> --
> Scott

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-08, 7:24 pm

In DMX2004, open the Results panel. There is a tab called Reports.... Need
I say more?

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dd846l$833$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Certainly. Open DMX2004, and use FILE | New > Page Designs (CSS) >
> Create. Go through the dialogs that ask you to select where to save the
> files, and then look at the page. Open the Layers panel. Select the
> layers called "tl" and "tr". Look at the code. Note that those are
> IMAGES, not DIV tags. But they are positioned with CSS.
>
>
> No.
>
>
> Tables can be a powerful tool. You should be able to slap a stable and
> reliable table together blindfolded. Layout mode just doesn't teach you
> how to do that.
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:dd7vj3$o7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-08, 7:24 pm

Actually, it's called "Site Reports"....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dd846l$833$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Certainly. Open DMX2004, and use FILE | New > Page Designs (CSS) >
> Create. Go through the dialogs that ask you to select where to save the
> files, and then look at the page. Open the Layers panel. Select the
> layers called "tl" and "tr". Look at the code. Note that those are
> IMAGES, not DIV tags. But they are positioned with CSS.
>
>
> No.
>
>
> Tables can be a powerful tool. You should be able to slap a stable and
> reliable table together blindfolded. Layout mode just doesn't teach you
> how to do that.
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:dd7vj3$o7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>

gscott66

2005-08-08, 11:17 pm

Murray,

The one I opened was "2-Col Left Nav" and it appaears to be all (mostly)
divs (IDs & Class) for the most part and the style sheet is very
self-explanatory as well.

Let me make sure I understand....the author placed a layer for the leftnav,
but where were the border lines created for the main content, masthead, site
info, etc.? Also how does the content stay in the designated areas (in
Standard Mode) with a layer or table? This is where i am getting lost. I
realize CSS is setting the margins, borders,etc....but how do I lay it out
prior to styling in the standards mode? Does this make sense? Wait a
minute....

OK! I tried something by removing the style sheet the design view places it
in a descending order (vice verse).

So to give something a class or id I should type it first, hightlight it,
and insert class or id name? Am I making more sense? Of course I need to
know CSS-P much better.

Now...with "Standard Mode"....what is the easiest way to work here? just
insert a table in the size (row, col, px or %) I want and insert it. But
they all stay flush left. Is that where CSS come into play? That is one of
the reasons I used "Layout Mode" because I could visually see the layout in
design view. Am I missing something here (besides my brain)?

Sorry to be so long winded, but I feel I am very close to crossing the
bridge. I am going to read the Shook tutorial (Flexible Page Layout Using
Tables
) tomorrow and maybe that will claify some of this. I didn't immediatley see
anything else on DWFAQ that directly related to my table question.

Thanks again....
--
Scott

Gupton Web Design
New Bern, NC 28562
PH: (252) 514-1191
FX: (252) 636-1191
www.guptonwebdesign.com
"Murray *TMM*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:dd846l$833$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Certainly. Open DMX2004, and use FILE | New > Page Designs (CSS) >
> Create. Go through the dialogs that ask you to select where to save the
> files, and then look at the page. Open the Layers panel. Select the
> layers called "tl" and "tr". Look at the code. Note that those are
> IMAGES, not DIV tags. But they are positioned with CSS.
>
>
> No.
>
>
> Tables can be a powerful tool. You should be able to slap a stable and
> reliable table together blindfolded. Layout mode just doesn't teach you
> how to do that.
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
> ==================
>
> "gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:dd7vj3$o7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>

.: Nadia :. *TMM*

2005-08-08, 11:17 pm

> Now...with "Standard Mode"....what is the easiest way to work here? just
> insert a table in the size (row, col, px or %) I want and insert it. But
> they all stay flush left. Is that where CSS come into play?

Yes, you use css to center the table. You can do this via the body tag or
using css on the table itself.

>That is one of the reasons I used "Layout Mode" because I could visually
>see the layout in design view. Am I missing something here (besides my
>brain)?

When you've applied the css the table will be positioned and you will see it
in design view.
eg: applying css to the table:

.maintable {
margin: auto auto; /*this centers the table horizontally on the page*/
border: 1px solid black;
}

> Sorry to be so long winded, but I feel I am very close to crossing the
> bridge. I am going to read the Shook tutorial (Flexible Page Layout Using
> Tables tomorrow and maybe that will claify some of this. I didn't
> immediatley see anything else on DWFAQ that directly related to my table
> question.

James' tutorial teaches you have to build a solid 'flexible' table layout.

Not sure which tutorials you have been pointed towards, but you can start
with learning how to use css to style a table layout
http://www.projectseven.com/tutoria...ss_td/index.htm
and then gradually more onto pure css layouts once you have a handle on how
css works.
I have a simple 2 column css layout here:
http://www.dreamweaverresources.com/freetemplates.htm that you can download
and play around with.

Other excellent CSS tutorials for beginners can be found at the MM site:
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx...weaver/css.html

This site may be of some benefit also:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/index.htm

Until you start testing the use of CSS you won't know what you're missing.
Even if you stick to tables for the time being, css should still be
something you need to learn :)

Good Luck.

--
Nadia
--------------------------------------------
Templates | CSS Templates | http://www.DreamweaverResources.com
Dropdown Menu Designs | SEO Articles |Tutorials
Web: http://www.perrelink.com.au
---------------------------------------------
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http://tinyurl.com/aa3ne
MM Dreamweaver Tutorials
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---------------------------------------------

uves

2005-08-08, 11:17 pm

Why don't you do a Google or Yahoo search on the pros and cons of tables
versus divs?

"gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
news:dd6gsa$nbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray or anyone,
>
> Can you give me some advice on the pros and cons of using Layers vs Tables
> for design (ie, CSS)? I am caught in the middle right now with people
> telling to stick with tables and other say to go 100% layers. I want to
use
> (move to) CSS for all of my presentation needs and I would like to know
> which option will alleviate much headache in the future. Any sound
advice,
> plus an article would help. I am learning to position with CSS and it
would
> nice to try layers (divs).
>
> PS...I also tend to use the DW template function for many of my previous
> works and they were done in Layout Tables/Table Cell. My last site had 50
> pages and it was nice to update all at once. Does this make a difference
> with layers?
>
> --
> Scott
>
>

gscott66

2005-08-08, 11:17 pm

Nadia,

Thank you and I will add these tutorials to my To do list for tomorrow.

--
Scott

Gupton Web Design
New Bern, NC 28562
PH: (252) 514-1191
FX: (252) 636-1191
www.guptonwebdesign.com
".: Nadia :. *TMM*" <nadia@REMOVETHISdreamweaverresources.com> wrote in
message news:dd927e$l17$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Yes, you use css to center the table. You can do this via the body tag or
> using css on the table itself.
>
>
> When you've applied the css the table will be positioned and you will see
> it in design view.
> eg: applying css to the table:
>
> .maintable {
> margin: auto auto; /*this centers the table horizontally on the page*/
> border: 1px solid black;
> }
>
>
> James' tutorial teaches you have to build a solid 'flexible' table layout.
>
> Not sure which tutorials you have been pointed towards, but you can start
> with learning how to use css to style a table layout
> http://www.projectseven.com/tutoria...ss_td/index.htm
> and then gradually more onto pure css layouts once you have a handle on
> how css works.
> I have a simple 2 column css layout here:
> http://www.dreamweaverresources.com/freetemplates.htm that you can
> download and play around with.
>
> Other excellent CSS tutorials for beginners can be found at the MM site:
> http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx...weaver/css.html
>
> This site may be of some benefit also:
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/index.htm
>
> Until you start testing the use of CSS you won't know what you're missing.
> Even if you stick to tables for the time being, css should still be
> something you need to learn :)
>
> Good Luck.
>
>
> --
> Nadia
> --------------------------------------------
> Templates | CSS Templates | http://www.DreamweaverResources.com
> Dropdown Menu Designs | SEO Articles |Tutorials
> Web: http://www.perrelink.com.au
> ---------------------------------------------
> Team MM Volunteer for Dreamweaver
> http://tinyurl.com/aa3ne
> MM Dreamweaver Tutorials
> http://macromedia.com/devnet/mx/dreamweaver/
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>

gscott66

2005-08-09, 7:30 pm

Murray / Nadia,

Thank you both very much! The tutorials dwFAQ / P7 helped clarify a lot of
things. I might post a new topic about working with the type of table I
created in the P7 CSS:TD. I want to test something before hand....

--
Scott

news:dd6gsa$nbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray or anyone,
>
> Can you give me some advice on the pros and cons of using Layers vs Tables
> for design (ie, CSS)? I am caught in the middle right now with people
> telling to stick with tables and other say to go 100% layers. I want to
> use (move to) CSS for all of my presentation needs and I would like to
> know which option will alleviate much headache in the future. Any sound
> advice, plus an article would help. I am learning to position with CSS
> and it would nice to try layers (divs).
>
> PS...I also tend to use the DW template function for many of my previous
> works and they were done in Layout Tables/Table Cell. My last site had 50
> pages and it was nice to update all at once. Does this make a difference
> with layers?
>
> --
> Scott
>
>

Murray *TMM*

2005-08-09, 7:30 pm

You're welcome....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================

"gscott66" <guptonfinancial@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ddaqel$du2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray / Nadia,
>
> Thank you both very much! The tutorials dwFAQ / P7 helped clarify a lot
> of things. I might post a new topic about working with the type of table
> I created in the P7 CSS:TD. I want to test something before hand....
>
> --
> Scott
>
> news:dd6gsa$nbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>