Dreamweaver - Re: ASP.net

Author

Re: ASP.net - ASP

David Stiller

2005-07-26, 7:19 pm

PRWOODING,

W3Schools.com has good overviews of a number of technologies, including
the two you're after. Check out the left side navigation.

http://www.w3schools.com/

David
stiller (at) quip (dot) net
"Luck is the residue of good design."

PRWOODING

2005-07-26, 7:21 pm

I think I will concentrate on ASP.net . How much of it can be done within Dreamweaver? Would I need to get a programme like visual studio.net, if so, is it free or you have to pay for it?

PRWOODING

2005-07-26, 7:21 pm

I think I will concentrate on ASP.net . How much of it can be done within Dreamweaver? Would I need to get a programme like visual studio.net, if so, is it free or do you have to pay for it?

J.S. $UltraSuite$

2005-07-26, 7:21 pm

DW's implementation of ASP.Net is not very good but many of us are creating
extensions to "subvert" ;) those shortcomings.

For VS.Net take a look at:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/

But surely you knew the latter. :)

--
____________________________________________________________________
UltraSuite Extension Packages: http://www.ultrasuite.com/
The *most popular* Suites of DMX 2004 and DMX Server Behaviors
for ASP, ASP.Net, ColdFusion, JSP, and PHP_MySQL
____________________________________________________________________

darrel

2005-07-26, 7:21 pm

> I think I will concentrate on ASP.net . How much of it can be done within
Dreamweaver? Would I need to get a programme like visual studio.net, if so,
is it free or you have to pay for it?

If you're going with .net, you definitely will want to use VS.net for all
your back-end code work.

It's not free, though MS does offer give-aways every so often on their web
site. The newer versions are actually language-specific which has the
disadvantage of only allowing you to program in one language at a time, but
has the advantage of being a cheaper purchase up front.

The one main drawback to MS web technologies vs. PHP/etc is that you are
going to have to pay for your development tools on the MS side.

-Darrel

middletree

2005-07-26, 7:27 pm

If I had $350 right now, I'd go to
https://empower-isv.one.microsoft.c...de/Default.aspx

or

https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40012073?PS=3

And get the Microsoft MSDN Universal subscription, which includes the
fullest version of Visual Studio. plus lots of other stuff.

Basically, the requirements are:

Join as a Microsoft partner (free)

Be an ISV (Independent Software Vendor), which you qualify for if you make
web sites and web applications for customers

Promise to make at least one product, using Studio, in the next year, and
post a link to it on your site, so that the public may freely buy or obtain
it.

darrel

2005-07-26, 7:27 pm

> Promise to make at least one product, using Studio, in the next year, and
> post a link to it on your site, so that the public may freely buy or
obtain
> it.

That's an odd requirement. How does MS police that?

-Darrel

middletree

2005-07-26, 7:31 pm

Since I'm not in the program, I am unsure how they do it. Might be the honor
system. That's how they do the Action Pack.

"darrel" <notreal@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dc5lfa$258$1@forums.macromedia.com...
and[color=darkred]
> obtain
>
> That's an odd requirement. How does MS police that?
>
> -Darrel
>
>

Rob

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

You do have to have a live and active website that you must submit with your
request to the Empower program as well as a description of the application
that you intend to build.

From there I'm not sure if they keep tabs on you to make sure that you live
up to your end. I guess I will find out in a month or two when I enroll.

"darrel" <notreal@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dc5lfa$258$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> obtain
>
> That's an odd requirement. How does MS police that?
>
> -Darrel
>
>

Rob

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

Visual Studio is far from free, but there is a tool that you can use for
..net that is free. Web Matrix. I have not used it myself so I cannot say how
good or bad it is.

You can find it here http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/

"PRWOODING" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dc5fn5$mbt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>I think I will concentrate on ASP.net . How much of it can be done within
>Dreamweaver? Would I need to get a programme like visual studio.net, if
>so, is it free or do you have to pay for it?

darrel

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

> Visual Studio is far from free, but there is a tool that you can use for
> .net that is free. Web Matrix. I have not used it myself so I cannot say
how
> good or bad it is.

The problem is that only Visual Studio handles the codebehind model, which
is really one of the advantages of ASP.net

So, if you're going to go with ASP.net, go all out and get VS.net

-Darrel

PRWOODING

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

What sort of websites would benefit from ASP. I wouldn't have thought websites
that are designed purely to give people information on a certain subject would
need to be ASP. On the other hand, a website that has a page that can give
different information to different users would certainly benefit.

darrel

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

> What sort of websites would benefit from ASP. I wouldn't have thought
websites
> that are designed purely to give people information on a certain subject
would
> need to be ASP. On the other hand, a website that has a page that can
give
> different information to different users would certainly benefit.

ASP is a server-side scripting language. It is used (primarily) to handle
interaction between the web page and something on the server. Typically,
this is data of some sort or other server-side functions, such as sending
emails.

The main benefit for a majority of sites that switch to some sort of
back-end scripting is the ability to separate content and presentation. You
can store all of your content in a database, and then just create a few
pages to present it.

For instance, this site:

http://www.lottsa.com/

is just one 'page'.

All the content is stored in a database and is presented with the template
via ASP.net

The advantage in this case was that I built a content management tool for
the client to use to update all the content.

-Darrel

middletree

2005-07-26, 7:34 pm

Pages that are different each time are going to benefit from server-side
coding, whether it's ASP, or its competitors Cold Fusion, PHP, etc.

The pages are going to be different, not just because of the person using
it, but because of data that's derived based upon a query of some sort.
Database-driven sites are really the bulk of what ASP, CF, and PHP are best
for.

"PRWOODING" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dc5tvf$eq5$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> What sort of websites would benefit from ASP. I wouldn't have thought
websites
> that are designed purely to give people information on a certain subject
would
> need to be ASP. On the other hand, a website that has a page that can
give
> different information to different users would certainly benefit.
>

Win Day

2005-07-26, 7:40 pm

PRWOODING wrote:
> What sort of websites would benefit from ASP. I wouldn't have thought websites
> that are designed purely to give people information on a certain subject would
> need to be ASP. On the other hand, a website that has a page that can give
> different information to different users would certainly benefit.
>

Here's one I developed that's got a number of ASP-based modules:
www.aea.ab.ca.

The Articles, Links, References, Calendar are all db-driven. This
allows other people besides me to enter and maintain the content. The
member directory is also db-driven.

So even though every visitor is delivered the same content, the
primitive CMS allows for multiple administrators/contributors.

I'm in the process of redesigning and redeveloping this site. It'll
have a whole member's only section, so all of the members can maintain
content as well as their own profiles.

Here's a db-driven image gallery:
http://www.montclairorchids.com/gal_catt.asp. My client maintains this
gallery, uploading and removing pictures. Again, everyone sees the same
gallery, but it was a whole lot easier to build.

--
Win Day
Wild Rose Websites
"You dream it. We make it work."
-----------------------------------------------
Building affordable websites : http://www.wildrosewebsites.com
NEW! Website Design Kits : http://www.wildrosewebsites.com/services/kits.asp
-----------------------------------------------

RalphPaonessa

2005-07-30, 11:16 pm

If I got VS.net for coding the "backend," would you still recommend using DW
for the rest of the design?

I'm fairly experienced at ASP, but I'm wondering when -- if ever -- to migrate
from the "old" technology of ASP to ASP.NET. I can see some of the advantages
of ASP.NET ... but after playing with it on DW for awhile, it's clear that DW
doesn't support it (yet? ever?) as well as good old ASP. Are there indications
that Macromedia will have deeper support for ASP.NET in the next version of DW?

As is the rule, just when I get proficient at one technology, it's eclipsed by
another ...

Thanks for any insights.

Paul Whitham TMM

2005-07-31, 11:23 pm

The current offerings from MS such as vs.net write excellant code but suck
at design (in fact they can screw it up), so in the current model it is best
to design the layout in DW and code in VS.Net

The next generation tools from MS are a lot better from a design viewpoint
but still not up to DW's ability, and they are limited to the 2.0 framework
which won't be out of beta until November this year.

It is not that DW does not support .Net, it more that MM have tried to make
the transition from ASP as simple as possible by writing their own class to
handle ADO aspects. While this makes it very simple to create simple
database interactions, anything more complicated get bogged down.

I would not hold my breath on the next release doing anything better, as I
suspect that they will wait until the 2.0 Framework comes out before moving.
I make this comment because database connections in 2.0 are very similar to
the way that current CF database connections are coded

--
Paul Whitham
Certified Dreamweaver MX2004 Professional
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver

Valleybiz Internet Design
www.valleybiz.net

"RalphPaonessa" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:dch96a$n3n$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> If I got VS.net for coding the "backend," would you still recommend using
> DW
> for the rest of the design?
>
> I'm fairly experienced at ASP, but I'm wondering when -- if ever -- to
> migrate
> from the "old" technology of ASP to ASP.NET. I can see some of the
> advantages
> of ASP.NET ... but after playing with it on DW for awhile, it's clear that
> DW
> doesn't support it (yet? ever?) as well as good old ASP. Are there
> indications
> that Macromedia will have deeper support for ASP.NET in the next version
> of DW?
>
> As is the rule, just when I get proficient at one technology, it's
> eclipsed by
> another ...
>
> Thanks for any insights.
>

RalphPaonessa

2005-07-31, 11:23 pm

In practice, how does one use Dreamweaver and VisualStudio.net together? In
particular, can you go back and forth between the two without one screwing up
the code of the other? Does it matter which application you start with for a
given page?

Would I create an aspx page in Dreamweaver with templates, layout, etc., and
then add anything having to do with asp.net code using VS? Could I then go back
to DW and tweak the design, or even radically alter it? Also, would you create
various asp.net "objects" like datagrids in VS, and would they then show up in
DW?

I don't have VS, and have only played a bit with asp.net in DW (done lots with
ASP). I'm wonder if the interplay between DW and VS is fairly seamless, or
"more trouble than it's worth " (the alternatives being to learn how to do a
lot of hand-coding of asp.net in DW; or foregoing any migration to asp.net
until some "easier future").

Thanks.