Dreamweaver - Huh? not illegal to sell educational software to buyers who aren't?

Author

Huh? not illegal to sell educational software to buyers who aren't?

Donna Casey

2005-10-31, 6:29 pm

What do you think, Macromedia? Legal sales of Educational software
without having to prove you qualify? What happens to the buyer who
purchases this?

Here's a transcript of a chat session with edirectsoftware.com regarding
the pricing of educational versions of Studio 8:

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Cody'
Cody: Hello, my name is Cody and I will be your live help representative
for today.
Cody: What can I help you with today?
donna: I see you list Macromedia Studio 8 for $579 but say that it is
the Educational version...does that mean to purchase you have to prove
some sort of educator or student status?
Cody: No
Cody: legally anyone can use this software
donna: do you think Macromedia thinks that?
Cody: It does not matter what Macromedia thinks.
Cody: Because you using this software is not breaking any laws.
Cody: Thus it is fully legal
donna: excuse me? you selling it is and the person buying it will not be
eligible for an upgrade.
Cody: You will receive all ugprades
Cody: And be able to register this with Macromedia
donna: I'll ask the folks I know at Macromedia
Cody: Alright.
Cody: Also contact a lawyer to get the law aspect of it as well
donna: nah, I know LOTS of Macromedia folks. If you have an explanation
as to WHY they require you be an educator or student to purchase such
software and yet you don't, I'd love to hear it.
Cody: That is just there policy
Cody: Not the law
Cody: Thus it is fully legal
Cody: Because that is just a policy
Cody: Thus it can be broken legally
donna: where do you get your copies?
Cody: Any lawyer will confirm this
Cody: Macromedia
Cody: This software is fully legal.
Cody: Please contact a lawyer to verify.
Cody: The First Sales Doctrine is a law that allows anyone to use this
software legally.
donna: what the hell is "First Sales Doctrine"?
Cody: Copyright infirngement would be burning the software
Cody: This software is not burned
Cody: That is the United States Law that states that software is not
assigned to what it states on the CD

after that, the session ended. Anyone have legal clarification of this?
I thought you had to prove you qualified for educational purchases and
that they had special upgrade specs.

Anyone?

Donna

Murray *TMM*

2005-10-31, 6:29 pm

I get the point! 8)

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"Donna Casey" <infoREMOVETHIS@n2dreamweaver.com> wrote in message
news:dk65i4$6sm$4@forums.macromedia.com...
> What do you think, Macromedia? Legal sales of Educational software without
> having to prove you qualify? What happens to the buyer who purchases this?
>
> Here's a transcript of a chat session with edirectsoftware.com regarding
> the pricing of educational versions of Studio 8:
>
> Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.
> Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Cody'
> Cody: Hello, my name is Cody and I will be your live help representative
> for today.
> Cody: What can I help you with today?
> donna: I see you list Macromedia Studio 8 for $579 but say that it is the
> Educational version...does that mean to purchase you have to prove some
> sort of educator or student status?
> Cody: No
> Cody: legally anyone can use this software
> donna: do you think Macromedia thinks that?
> Cody: It does not matter what Macromedia thinks.
> Cody: Because you using this software is not breaking any laws.
> Cody: Thus it is fully legal
> donna: excuse me? you selling it is and the person buying it will not be
> eligible for an upgrade.
> Cody: You will receive all ugprades
> Cody: And be able to register this with Macromedia
> donna: I'll ask the folks I know at Macromedia
> Cody: Alright.
> Cody: Also contact a lawyer to get the law aspect of it as well
> donna: nah, I know LOTS of Macromedia folks. If you have an explanation as
> to WHY they require you be an educator or student to purchase such
> software and yet you don't, I'd love to hear it.
> Cody: That is just there policy
> Cody: Not the law
> Cody: Thus it is fully legal
> Cody: Because that is just a policy
> Cody: Thus it can be broken legally
> donna: where do you get your copies?
> Cody: Any lawyer will confirm this
> Cody: Macromedia
> Cody: This software is fully legal.
> Cody: Please contact a lawyer to verify.
> Cody: The First Sales Doctrine is a law that allows anyone to use this
> software legally.
> donna: what the hell is "First Sales Doctrine"?
> Cody: Copyright infirngement would be burning the software
> Cody: This software is not burned
> Cody: That is the United States Law that states that software is not
> assigned to what it states on the CD
>
> after that, the session ended. Anyone have legal clarification of this? I
> thought you had to prove you qualified for educational purchases and that
> they had special upgrade specs.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Donna

darrel

2005-10-31, 6:29 pm

> What do you think, Macromedia? Legal sales of Educational software without
> having to prove you qualify? What happens to the buyer who purchases this?

Probably nothing. I suppose MM can refuse to give you an upgrade.

FYI, First-sale doctrine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Doesn't sound like this particular vendor is an Authorized MM reseller, but
rather acting as a private buyer/seller. Ie, they're buying form MM as an
end-user, and selling the product they bought.

And note the Wikipedia entry mentioning the muddiness of the current IP laws
in existence.

-Darrel

darrel

2005-10-31, 6:29 pm

Here's a more specific entry from Wikipedia:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reselling the original software. Licenses often say that the buyer does not
buy the software but instead pays for the right to use the software. In the
US, the first-sale doctrine, Softman v. Adobe [1] and Novell, Inc. v. CPU
Distrib., Inc. ruled that software sales are purchases, not licenses, and
resale, including unbundling, is lawful regardless of a contractual
prohibition. The reasoning in Softman v. Adobe suggests that resale of
student licensed versions, provided they are accurately described as such,
is also not infringing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like this vendor is indeed likely breaking MM's contractual
prohibition, but that prohibition could be seen as being illegal and
therefor void based on the first-sale doctrine.

-Darrel

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

2005-10-31, 6:29 pm

Donna Casey wrote:

> after that, the session ended. Anyone have legal clarification of
> this? I thought you had to prove you qualified for educational
> purchases and that they had special upgrade specs.
>
> Anyone?

Hi Donna,
I've been invloved many times in this kind of threads. I think it's a waste
of time...
FWIW, if I really wanted to know the truth about this, I wouldn't ask on
this forum.

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

2005-10-31, 10:22 pm

sfegette wrote:
> Thierry- we don't get into legal discussions of the EULA here, as
> noted in prior discussions.

That's (among other things) why I told Donna that asking this question on
this forum is a waste of time ;)

--
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates + Articles:
CSS Popups, CSS 3 Column Layout, CSS Tabs, CSS Dropdown Menu,
TIP Method, Sliced Images, Clean Popup Windows, Easy Maintenance.....

Helpful Harry

2005-10-31, 10:22 pm

In article <dk65i4$6sm$4@forums.macromedia.com>, Donna Casey
<infoREMOVETHIS@n2dreamweaver.com> wrote:

> What do you think, Macromedia? Legal sales of Educational software
> without having to prove you qualify? What happens to the buyer who
> purchases this?

In most cases it is perfectly legal to sell "Education" copies of
software to anyone who asks for it ... *BUT* the license agreement for
the software usually says something along the lines of not using the
software for business use, only educational. So whether dad buys the
"Educational" software or gets his university student son to buy it,
the software still can't be used in dad's DTP business.

Many companies also allow non-profit organisations to access
"Educational" discounts as well since they aren't running a
profit-making business, but again the same rules apply.

Here in New Zealand, Microsoft have been selling "Office Student &
Teacher" through street electronics shops without requiring any proof
for a couple of years now.

Bascially: you should ALWAYS read the small print! :o)

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)