Dreamweaver - Put www in url address or not?

Author

Put www in url address or not?

Catherine_B

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

Greetings -

Whenever I enter a website url that I want to visit into IE, I never type in
the "www".

Is this unique to IE where it recognizes the world wide web part of the
address?

Or, in other words, is it best to 'always' give, use or type the www when
giving out a url for creating links, submitting an address to a search engine,
etc.?

Or do all the browsers know to 'go there' without it?

Thank you in advance,

Catherine

joeyb

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

Depends how the administrator configures the system that directs the domain
name to the appropriate resource. Plenty of sites only configure the
www.domainname reference, so leaving off the www won't work with them. If
in doubt, use www, but don't forget that URLs can have anything there, not
just www in front of the domain name.

"Catherine_B" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:cf0sa2$dvs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Greetings -
>
> Whenever I enter a website url that I want to visit into IE, I never type
in
> the "www".
>
> Is this unique to IE where it recognizes the world wide web part of the
> address?
>
> Or, in other words, is it best to 'always' give, use or type the www when
> giving out a url for creating links, submitting an address to a search
engine,
> etc.?
>
> Or do all the browsers know to 'go there' without it?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Catherine
>
>

darrel

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

> Or, in other words, is it best to 'always' give, use or type the www when
> giving out a url for creating links, submitting an address to a search
engine,
> etc.?

domain.com

and

www.domain.com

are two different things. One has a subdomain (www). You could have both of
those point to two different web sites. When setting up a domain names DNS
records, I'd suggest that you make sure both domains resolve to the web
site. At that point, it really doesn't matter which you use, as they both
point to the same place.

-Darrel

Lynch

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

Catherine,

It actually has nothing to do with the browser. Whether or not a server
answers a "www" or non-"www' call is determined by the name servers MX record.
It is standard practice to set up the name server to answer to both, but it is
not always the case. From my experience using the "www" is slightly more
reliable.

-Lynch

N Rohler

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

This is actually not a browser feature. Whether this works or not depends on
the DNS configuration on the server. Most DNS servers have this enabled by
default, but some don't. So, if the website in question comes up without
'www', it is unilaterally valid as such.

Mad Dog

2004-08-06, 7:15 pm

His question has EVERYTHING to do with the browser. IE, and most browsers,
add the http://www to the front of the address if you just enter the
domain.com part. Try it and you'll see it adds it automatically. This is
what he's seeing, which is why he's asking. Most of the time it's not a
problem but it can be.

As everyone's saying, if he's giving out his domain to other people he
should always include it, since as people are pointing out, there can be a
difference in some cases.

MD

Lynch wrote:
> Catherine,
>
> It actually has nothing to do with the browser. Whether or not a
> server answers a "www" or non-"www' call is determined by the name
> servers MX record. It is standard practice to set up the name server
> to answer to both, but it is not always the case. From my experience
> using the "www" is slightly more reliable.
>
> -Lynch

darrel

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

> add the http://www to the front of the address if you just enter the
> domain.com part. Try it and you'll see it adds it automatically.

It should only do that if the server redirects to www. OR if the browser
can't find the domain sans the www to begin with.

So, it's not really a browser thing. The browser does not assume any
sub-domain.

Obviously, if one does NOT have the server set up for www.domain, he
shouldn't give that out.

-Darrel

Mad Dog

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

By jove, you're right!

Kindler Chase wrote:
> Mad Dog wrote:
>
> IE6 win2k
>
> entering something like ncubed.com into the address bar and IE only
> adds the http:// part, the www is _not_ added automatically.

Kindler Chase

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

Mad Dog wrote:
> His question has EVERYTHING to do with the browser. IE, and most
> browsers, add the http://www to the front of the address if you just
> enter the domain.com part. Try it and you'll see it adds it
> automatically. This is what he's seeing, which is why he's asking.
> Most of the time it's not a problem but it can be.

IE6 win2k

entering something like ncubed.com into the address bar and IE only adds the
http:// part, the www is _not_ added automatically.

--
kindler chase
http://www.ncubed.com
Moving with SuperInvoice's Groove Machine

news://news.ncubed.com/support
n3 Support Group

Catherine_B

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

Hello Again -

Thank you all for the info, and now I know that the www is not a browser
feature.

Yes, I do notice that for my clients' sites, they will come up with and
without, so obviously both are correct. When I leave the www out, it does not
appear visibly, either. I just personally prefer to shorten it and leave it
out.

What is MOST important now is that I'm submitting my client sites to search
engines, so I don't want to make a mistake. I actually did NOT use it for
Yahoo and Google and Inktomi today -- then it occurred to me I might be making
a mistake, so that's why I'm checking with you guys.

What would you folks do for the purposes of submitting to SE's? Or perhaps I
should submit both?

Thanks,

Catherine
~ 100% female, in spite of what Mad Dog and Darrel may have referred to me as
;-)

rrose selavy

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

> entering something like ncubed.com into the address bar and IE only adds
the
> http:// part, the www is _not_ added automatically.

Hmmmm....seems to vary. Yes, www is not added to ncubed. But when other
certain other domain name are "tested" the www IS added.

Michael Fesser

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

.oO(Catherine_B)

> Yes, I do notice that for my clients' sites, they will come up with and
>without, so obviously both are correct.

If the server allows both: Decide for one, don't use them both at the
same time. Redirect the not used one to the other.

>When I leave the www out, it does not
>appear visibly, either. I just personally prefer to shorten it and leave it
>out.

Then you should redirect the www.example.org to example.org if possible
(depends on the used webserver, on Apaches it's quite easy).

> What is MOST important now is that I'm submitting my client sites to search
>engines, so I don't want to make a mistake. I actually did NOT use it for
>Yahoo and Google and Inktomi today -- then it occurred to me I might be making
>a mistake, so that's why I'm checking with you guys.
>
> What would you folks do for the purposes of submitting to SE's? Or perhaps I
>should submit both?

No. www.example.org and example.org are _completely_ different sites for
most search engines and caches (proxy servers, browser caches, etc). If
you use both they will be indexed and cached twice. You don't want that.

There should always be _exactly one_ published URL to a resource like a
webpage. A simple example: There are almost always at least four(!)
different URLs to the homepage of a website:

example.org
www.example.org
example.org/index.html
www.example.org/index.html

Four URLs for one resource. But for a cache these are four different
resources and in the worst case they will be stored four times! This may
not only confuse caches, but also visitors (already visited links don't
show up as such).

As said above: Decide for one, don't use the others and redirect them if
possible.

Just my 2 cents

Micha

Gary White

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

"rrose selavy" <rrose@selavy.com> wrote in message
news:cf15ka$lt8$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Hmmmm....seems to vary. Yes, www is not added to ncubed. But when
other
> certain other domain name are "tested" the www IS added.

It varies depending on how the server is configured.

Gary

Michael Fesser

2004-08-06, 11:14 pm

.oO(rrose selavy)

>
>Hmmmm....seems to vary. Yes, www is not added to ncubed. But when other
>certain other domain name are "tested" the www IS added.

1) Server-side redirect.
2) Some browsers are configurable to add certain prefixes to an address
if the original address could not be found.

Micha

Catherine_B

2004-08-07, 4:14 am

To Michael Fesser:

Clearly you understand a great deal more about this subject than I do! I
don't know even the first step of how to redirect a site.

But this I do know: When I have signed up my clients' domain names at
Godaddy.com, there is not a choice, per se. of www or not. I don't even know
if there is a dominant preference on their server. I can type in the domain
names either way and get to the index.htm page (which of course the 'index.htm'
does not show up) equally well. So I thought that through popular use, the www
had sort of been 'dropped' and was no longer necessary to type in, but was
'understood' by {browsers/servers].

You say the sites are completely different, so I guess you are saying register
one form (in my case, the no-www) with the search engines and then redirect the
www one to the no-www one. If so, then I need to find out who to redirect
with. I am wondering actually if godaddy doesn't already do that, since my
sites come up both ways.

[Please excuse my novice status on this issue -- everybody's patience and time
is greatly appreciated.]

Catherine

Mad Dog

2004-08-07, 4:14 am

BTW, I think some of the "confusion" over whether www has been dropped is
because the print media (newspapers and magazines) has mostly chosen to
print URLs without the www because it's so redundant and takes up space. Not
to mention it makes for long sentences that need to be broken. A
typesetter's nightmare. So most magazines and newspapers, after a few years,
dropped the www assuming that people knew to put it on the front. That leads
people to wonder whether it's important or not........

MD

Catherine_B wrote:
> To Michael Fesser:
>
> Clearly you understand a great deal more about this subject than I
> do! I don't know even the first step of how to redirect a site.
>
> But this I do know: When I have signed up my clients' domain names
> at Godaddy.com, there is not a choice, per se. of www or not. I
> don't even know if there is a dominant preference on their server. I
> can type in the domain names either way and get to the index.htm page
> (which of course the 'index.htm' does not show up) equally well. So
> I thought that through popular use, the www had sort of been
> 'dropped' and was no longer necessary to type in, but was
> 'understood' by {browsers/servers].
>
> You say the sites are completely different, so I guess you are
> saying register one form (in my case, the no-www) with the search
> engines and then redirect the www one to the no-www one. If so, then
> I need to find out who to redirect with. I am wondering actually if
> godaddy doesn't already do that, since my sites come up both ways.
>
> [Please excuse my novice status on this issue -- everybody's
> patience and time is greatly appreciated.]
>
> Catherine

John Waller

2004-08-07, 7:14 am

> entering something like ncubed.com into the address bar and IE only
> adds the http:// part, the www is _not_ added automatically.

IE/Win:

If you enter "ncubed" into the address bar then Ctrl + Enter, IE adds the
"http://www." and the ".com" automatically.

--
Regards

John Waller

Catherine_B

2004-08-07, 7:15 pm

[IE/Win:

If you enter "ncubed" into the address bar then Ctrl + Enter, IE adds the
"http://www." and the ".com" automatically.

--
Regards

John Waller

Omigosh -- THAT's a trip!!!

Is the thing to do now simply to submit the sites the SE's WITHOUT the www??

Michael Fesser

2004-08-07, 7:15 pm

.oO(Mad Dog)

>BTW, I think some of the "confusion" over whether www has been dropped is
>because the print media (newspapers and magazines) has mostly chosen to
>print URLs without the www because it's so redundant and takes up space. Not
>to mention it makes for long sentences that need to be broken. A
>typesetter's nightmare. So most magazines and newspapers, after a few years,
>dropped the www assuming that people knew to put it on the front. That leads
>people to wonder whether it's important or not........

ACK

And sometimes it leads to a 404 ...

Micha

Michael Fesser

2004-08-07, 7:15 pm

.oO(Catherine_B)

> But this I do know: When I have signed up my clients' domain names at
>Godaddy.com, there is not a choice, per se. of www or not.

Today many servers allow both by default.

>I don't even know
>if there is a dominant preference on their server. I can type in the domain
>names either way and get to the index.htm page (which of course the 'index.htm'
>does not show up) equally well.

OK.

>So I thought that through popular use, the www
>had sort of been 'dropped' and was no longer necessary to type in, but was
>'understood' by {browsers/servers].

What may confuse some people is that neither a leading 'www' nor a
trailing '.html' are really necessary or required by any specification
or standard. The first part of such an address simply denotes the host
that is responsible for answering requests. It was quite common to name
the host responsible for answering HTTP-requests 'www' (newsservers are
usually named 'news' for example), but it could be anything else:

www.example.org
foo.example.org
bar.example.org

The same goes for file extensions.

But today many systems are configured to also accept URLs without a
specific hostname:

example.org

which could be interpreted as a kind of wildcard address:

*.example.org

So the server simply accepts everything as a hostname. Mad Dog gave some
possible reasons why omitting the 'www' seems quite popular these days.

> You say the sites are completely different, so I guess you are saying register
>one form (in my case, the no-www) with the search engines

Yep.

>and then redirect the
>www one to the no-www one. If so, then I need to find out who to redirect
>with.

I only know how to do it on Apache servers ... but anyway. Even more
important is that your own site-internal links are consistent: Don't
link to '/' one time and to '/index.html' another. The same goes for the
with/without 'www' thing, always use the same scheme/address when
linking to the site or when publishing it to somewhere (for example
search engines or other link sites). That's IMHO more important than
redirecting the "wrong" addresses.

Micha

Catherine_B

2004-08-07, 11:14 pm

Thank you for the follow-up, Micha -- greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Catherine