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Re: do many people exclude Javascript?
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| why would web developers and techies turn javascript off?
I don't know why anybody would turn javascript off at all, but how can a
web developper turn javascript off? isn't it like being say, an
electrician, and use candles to light your house?
Mad Dog wrote:
> According to these two sites between 6% and 8% of users have Javascript
> turned off. Of course it mostly depends on who your primary audience is. If
> you cater to web developers and techies, it's probably higher. If you cater
> to very average users, probably lower.
>
> http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2004/March/javas.php
>
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>
> Lossed wrote:
>
>
>
>
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| Mad Dog 2004-05-28, 7:14 pm |
| I don't really know either, but wait until tomorrow and see what people
say.......
seb wrote:[color=darkred]
> why would web developers and techies turn javascript off?
> I don't know why anybody would turn javascript off at all, but how
> can a web developper turn javascript off? isn't it like being say, an
> electrician, and use candles to light your house?
>
> Mad Dog wrote:
>
| |
| Gary White 2004-05-28, 7:14 pm |
| "Lossed" <blankemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c966rp$aij$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> target is business users. Why would someone turn off JS? understanding
that
> might help me define how much of target are likely to be accessing site
> without JS.
I could write a page that would help you understand. ;-) While JavaScript
has no access to your machine's file system and can do little real harm, it
can do plenty of very annoying things. For example, it could automatically
bookmark a page, or make a page your new home page. How would you like it if
the next time one of your children started the web browser, it came up on
some porn site? It can "trap you" in a site by opening a new window every
time you try to leave. The only way to exit would be to either kill the
browser in the task manager, or to re-boot the computer. Then there are the
less outrageous things like re-sizing your browser and such. There are tons
of obnoxious things that can be easily avoided by turning off JavaScript.
> If it's high enough,I'll make a slimmer site w/out JS. Ill then need a way
> to check browser for JS off and redirect to different pages.
Why that? Just make the site so it degrades gracefully. Note that, if
JavaScript is *required* for navigation, then you're cutting off the search
engine spiders because they don't have JavaScript. ;-)
Gary
| |
| Lossed 2004-05-28, 7:14 pm |
| Tks Gary,
Most of these don't, thankfully, apply to my target user, so hopefully many
won't turn it off and if they do, sod them ;-) Only kidding, i just don't
have the motivation/expertise....today... to accommodate every user in this
current site design/mind numbing endeavour. Dunno where you are but it's
Friday PM here and that's a GREAT thing.
actually, I have noticed a few of those very annoying things you mention
below, especially that one of the never ending window. Do the designers that
use that stuff actually think they are clever, or are the just disrespectful
so and so's. How on earth do those people seriously think I would ever go
back to their site! I think (and hope for my site design's sake) these
abuses of JS are infrequent enough to not deter too many users from JS,
certainly amongst the site's target, anyhow.
I would imagine my own internet experience would be rather bland w/out JS. I
might try going an hour w/out it one day and see how i go.
A sideline is the forms I am building and relying on client side validation.
I think I'll go back through 'em and ensure the critical areas have some
server side validation in 'em also, just to be sure. But not now....it's the
w/end soon and it cannot come soon enough :-0
"Gary White" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
news:c96dko$gl0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> "Lossed" <blankemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c966rp$aij$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> that
>
> I could write a page that would help you understand. ;-) While JavaScript
> has no access to your machine's file system and can do little real harm,
it
> can do plenty of very annoying things. For example, it could automatically
> bookmark a page, or make a page your new home page. How would you like it
if
> the next time one of your children started the web browser, it came up on
> some porn site? It can "trap you" in a site by opening a new window every
> time you try to leave. The only way to exit would be to either kill the
> browser in the task manager, or to re-boot the computer. Then there are
the
> less outrageous things like re-sizing your browser and such. There are
tons
> of obnoxious things that can be easily avoided by turning off JavaScript.
>
>
way[color=darkred]
>
> Why that? Just make the site so it degrades gracefully. Note that, if
> JavaScript is *required* for navigation, then you're cutting off the
search
> engine spiders because they don't have JavaScript. ;-)
>
> Gary
>
>
| |
| Kevin Scholl 2004-05-28, 7:14 pm |
|
Gary White wrote:
>
> that
>
>
>
> I could write a page that would help you understand. ;-) While JavaScript
> has no access to your machine's file system and can do little real harm, it
> can do plenty of very annoying things. For example, it could automatically
> bookmark a page, or make a page your new home page. How would you like it if
> the next time one of your children started the web browser, it came up on
> some porn site? It can "trap you" in a site by opening a new window every
> time you try to leave. The only way to exit would be to either kill the
> browser in the task manager, or to re-boot the computer. Then there are the
> less outrageous things like re-sizing your browser and such. There are tons
> of obnoxious things that can be easily avoided by turning off JavaScript.
And unfortunately then miss out on sites that make interesting and
viable use of Javascript. A better, though less global, solution is to
encourage the use of browsers which allow the user to selectively
enable/disable the nonsense you mention above, but allows the "good"
functionality to execute. Shamefully, IE/Win, the most popular (and
least capable) of the so-called modern browsers, has no such controls.
Therefore...
>
>
> Why that? Just make the site so it degrades gracefully. Note that, if
> JavaScript is *required* for navigation, then you're cutting off the search
> engine spiders because they don't have JavaScript. ;-)
....this is the best solution available from a developer standpoint.
--
*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***
======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
the dreams...
======================================================
| |
|
| It seems kind of abnoxious to me to turn off javascript on your browser,
for a WEB DEVELOPPER!. You might as well turn off your internet
connection. There are plenty of bad things in the internet, and they
don't need javascript to reach your browser. There are also plenty of
great things on the internet, and lots of them need javascript to function.
I think if you're a web developper, you should like the online world
(assuming that you like your job) for its unique freedom and diversity,
rather than try to muffle it and shut down one of its fundamental tools.
If you're gonna turn javascript off, you just shouldn't be a web
developper, why don't you go farm, or be a shephard. I don't know, this
just doesn't make sense to me.
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>
>
> That would mean that their dad spent some time on such sites; these scripts
> don't come from nowhere
> LOL
>
> Thierry
>
> Gary White wrote:
>
>
>
>
| |
| Thierry Koblentz 2004-05-28, 7:14 pm |
| > How would you like it if the next time one of your
> children started the web browser, it came up on some porn site? It
That would mean that their dad spent some time on such sites; these scripts
don't come from nowhere
LOL
Thierry
Gary White wrote:[color=darkred]
> "Lossed" <blankemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c966rp$aij$1@forums.macromedia.com...
| |
| Joe {RoastHorse} 2004-05-28, 7:15 pm |
| ???
seb wrote:
[color=darkred]
> It seems kind of abnoxious to me to turn off javascript on your browser,
> for a WEB DEVELOPPER!. You might as well turn off your internet
> connection. There are plenty of bad things in the internet, and they
> don't need javascript to reach your browser. There are also plenty of
> great things on the internet, and lots of them need javascript to function.
> I think if you're a web developper, you should like the online world
> (assuming that you like your job) for its unique freedom and diversity,
> rather than try to muffle it and shut down one of its fundamental tools.
>
> If you're gonna turn javascript off, you just shouldn't be a web
> developper, why don't you go farm, or be a shephard. I don't know, this
> just doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-05-28, 7:15 pm |
| Lossed:
You may be surprised. There is a persistent urban legend that having js
enabled creates a security risk. If the business in question has paranoid
IT people, it could be that this is their standard configuration.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Lossed" <blankemail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c96epe$hkn$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Tks Gary,
>
> Most of these don't, thankfully, apply to my target user, so hopefully
many
> won't turn it off and if they do, sod them ;-) Only kidding, i just don't
> have the motivation/expertise....today... to accommodate every user in
this
> current site design/mind numbing endeavour. Dunno where you are but it's
> Friday PM here and that's a GREAT thing.
>
> actually, I have noticed a few of those very annoying things you mention
> below, especially that one of the never ending window. Do the designers
that
> use that stuff actually think they are clever, or are the just
disrespectful
> so and so's. How on earth do those people seriously think I would ever go
> back to their site! I think (and hope for my site design's sake) these
> abuses of JS are infrequent enough to not deter too many users from JS,
> certainly amongst the site's target, anyhow.
>
> I would imagine my own internet experience would be rather bland w/out JS.
I
> might try going an hour w/out it one day and see how i go.
>
> A sideline is the forms I am building and relying on client side
validation.
> I think I'll go back through 'em and ensure the critical areas have some
> server side validation in 'em also, just to be sure. But not now....it's
the
> w/end soon and it cannot come soon enough :-0
>
>
>
> "Gary White" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
> news:c96dko$gl0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
site[color=darkred]
JavaScript[color=darkred]
> it
automatically[color=darkred]
it[color=darkred]
> if
on[color=darkred]
every[color=darkred]
> the
> tons
JavaScript.[color=darkred]
> way
> search
>
>
| |
| Thierry Koblentz 2004-05-30, 12:14 pm |
| > now, thierry, how can "One do rollovers and even disjoint rollovers
> with NO script at all"? Would you have a simple example too? like,
> say, a swap image rollover?
Basic image swaping with CSS is pretty simple.
IMO, it is even better than using JS because it can simply be done with ONE
single image.
Go to Al's site (www.projectseven.com) to get inspired by some CSS
techniques.
Re: pure disjoint rollovers the technique is very different:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/resources/css%20pop%20ups/
I have a new tutorial about these [*IE5 compatible*] but it won't be online
before my new site is done.
Bookmark the page and come back in a few weeks ;-)
Thierry
>
> Josh Johnson wrote:
| |
| Gary White 2004-05-30, 12:15 pm |
| On Fri, 28 May 2004 17:33:36 -0400, seb
<sebnewyork@earhlink.netTakeThisOut> wrote:
>Josh, thanks for this precise example, it makes sense, and seems like a
>good compromise. I'll use it from now on.
Things like that are precisely what I was talking about. I even have a
couple of pages on my personal web site that deal with things like that:
http://apptools.com/rants/popups.php
http://apptools.com/rants/menus.php
Gary
| |
| Lossed 2004-05-30, 12:15 pm |
| Tks for the opinions everyone. i think i created a monster posting the
thread, but it has certainly helped.
Mainly, i have show/hide behaviours on layers using JS. Is there a
relatively easy way to replace the JS with something that won't degrade much
with non JS browsers?
Cheers,
TC
"Thierry Koblentz" <thierry@212Utah.invalid> wrote in message
news:c988j5$6gr$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
> Seb,
> You're still missing my point.
> I *never* said that I don't like JS, read my posts again...
>
> BTW, a lot of what you say can be done through CSS ;)
>
> Thierry
>
> seb wrote:
>
>
| |
| Thierry Koblentz 2004-05-30, 12:15 pm |
| Duh!
;)
Thierry
Al Sparber- PVII wrote:
> Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>
> http://www.kaosweaver.com
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