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MX2004 - problems with tables
|
|
| Mainostalo 2004-02-19, 1:28 pm |
| I have built a lot of websites with Dreamweaver 4 (PC version) using tables to
construct the sites. My sites worked perfectly in both PC and Macintosh
environment with such browsers as Internet Explorer, Netscape and Opera.
Recently I bought Dreamweaver MX 2004 (PC version). As I construct the sites
exactly the same way as before with the help of tables, the pages break apart
at least with Macintosh Netscape 6.2 (not however with for example Macintosh
Netscape Communicator 4.7). There are white gaps between the tables (see for
example www.seapartners.net/drago.htm). I assume it has something to do with
this new code in the beginning of the pages <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD
HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">. If I
remove this code, the tables work just fine BUT I seem to get problems with at
least the fonts.
Doesnt Dreamweaver MX 2004 write code that every browser understands or doesnt
it support tables? What should I do? Should I go back using Dreamweaver 4 as
everything worked perfectly with it? [b]Text[/b
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-19, 1:29 pm |
| The reason that things break with the doctype and don't without it is that
you are building tables based on invalid methods. The DMX2004 doctype puts
the browser into a loose standards mode, which is stricter in its
interpretation of HTML standards. The earlier pages without the doctype are
rendered in quirks mode, which is more tolerant of inaccurate or invalid
code usages - an example would be the table height attribute which is
invalid HTML.
> Should I go back using Dreamweaver 4 as
> everything worked perfectly with it?
That's up to you. But if you are serious about building web pages, then you
should stick with DMX 2004 and learn about standard HTML.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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==================
"Mainostalo" <katri.raevaara@mainostalo.fi> wrote in message
news:c12okb$bl9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> I have built a lot of websites with Dreamweaver 4 (PC version) using
tables to
> construct the sites. My sites worked perfectly in both PC and Macintosh
> environment with such browsers as Internet Explorer, Netscape and Opera.
>
> Recently I bought Dreamweaver MX 2004 (PC version). As I construct the
sites
> exactly the same way as before with the help of tables, the pages break
apart
> at least with Macintosh Netscape 6.2 (not however with for example
Macintosh
> Netscape Communicator 4.7). There are white gaps between the tables (see
for
> example www.seapartners.net/drago.htm). I assume it has something to do
with
> this new code in the beginning of the pages <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD
> HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">. If I
> remove this code, the tables work just fine BUT I seem to get problems
with at
> least the fonts.
>
> Doesnt Dreamweaver MX 2004 write code that every browser understands or
doesnt
> it support tables? What should I do? Should I go back using Dreamweaver 4
as
> everything worked perfectly with it? [b]Text[/b
>
| |
| Mainostalo 2004-02-23, 6:28 am |
| Thank you for your answer! I would like to learn more about standard html.
Could you tell me what I should do differently or where I could find
information so that I would learn to do everything right? Help me please!
I didnt know I was doing something wrong as everything worked allright before.
In this business I find that there are so many ways to do things and all kinds
of people giving advices that it is difficult to know what is the RIGHT way. I
have just learned to do things MY way...
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-23, 7:28 am |
| The specifications for HTML and CSS are given here - http://www.w3.org.
Beware - it's pithy reading! 8)
The solution is to find a place where you get generally good advice and stay
there. Learn how to evaluate what is being said against what your
experience is. Get a reliable printed reference and use it. And
experiment, experiment, experiment!
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Mainostalo" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1ckne$amj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Thank you for your answer! I would like to learn more about standard html.
> Could you tell me what I should do differently or where I could find
> information so that I would learn to do everything right? Help me please!
>
> I didnt know I was doing something wrong as everything worked allright
before.
> In this business I find that there are so many ways to do things and all
kinds
> of people giving advices that it is difficult to know what is the RIGHT
way. I
> have just learned to do things MY way...
>
>
>
>
| |
| Mainostalo 2004-02-23, 10:28 am |
| Tell me if I am right. There are two things wrong with my pages.
First:
I am not allowed to give the table height (funny that Dreamweaver still lets
you do that). I suppose table height then is only determined by the amount of
content. But I can still determine the cell height, am I right?
Secondly:
I am not allowed to put a background image in a table cell (funny that that
too is still possible in Dreamweaver). Can I still use background color for
cells and a background image for the whole table? I have used background images
in cells to make tables stretch. How can I do that otherwise? Is there any
simple way to do that?
Have I understood right what you said about invalid methods? I understood that
otherwise there is nothing wrong with my tables. Am I right?
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-23, 10:28 am |
| Main:
(funny that Dreamweaver still lets you do that)
Dreamweaver cannot prevent you from building invalid pages. But imagine the
hue and cry if this were to be removed from the Property inspector. I
suppose the development team prioritized the "protect operator from
themself" type problems very low in the update schedule! 8)
> I am not allowed to give the table height
You can do, but it is unreliable.
> But I can still determine the cell height, am I right?
No, but for a different reason. Cell heights are valid, but deprecated.
This means that the browser manufacturers may drop support an still satisfy
valid HTML tests. In fact, the table will size the cell as it needs
regardless of your stated heights, so why bother anyhow?
> I am not allowed to put a background image in a table cell
This is wrong. Of course you can put a background image in a table cell.
The suggested way would be to specify it with CSS.
> I have used background images
> in cells to make tables stretch
If you have, I'd love to see it. A background image will never stretch its
container.
> Is there any
> simple way to do that?
If you need a cell to have explicit *MINIMUM* dimensions, you can a) use CSS
to style the cell, or b) use a 'shim' image to size the cell (a 1x1
transparent GIF image that is resized as needed), or c) use a nested table
with a declared width (but not height of course) to size the cell, or d) use
a nested <div> or <span> tag with a stated width/height (although this is
not reliable cross-browser). Note that these methods only allow you to keep
the cell from becoming SMALLER than you desire. None of them will keep it
from getting larger if the contents require it.
> Have I understood right what you said about invalid methods?
See above!
> otherwise there is nothing wrong with my tables. Am I right?
I would need to look again. Yep - they look OK to me. But why did you do
this?
<div align="center">
<table....
around the main table?
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
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http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Mainostalo" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1d0dh$rbu$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Tell me if I am right. There are two things wrong with my pages.
>
> First:
> I am not allowed to give the table height (funny that Dreamweaver still
lets
> you do that). I suppose table height then is only determined by the amount
of
> content. But I can still determine the cell height, am I right?
>
> Secondly:
> I am not allowed to put a background image in a table cell (funny that
that
> too is still possible in Dreamweaver). Can I still use background color
for
> cells and a background image for the whole table? I have used background
images
> in cells to make tables stretch. How can I do that otherwise? Is there any
> simple way to do that?
>
> Have I understood right what you said about invalid methods? I understood
that
> otherwise there is nothing wrong with my tables. Am I right?
>
| |
| Mainostalo 2004-02-23, 12:32 pm |
| I have always given the table height and cell height because I have thought
that it keeps the table from breaking apart when I give the exact measures. But
I took away my table height and cell height attributes from the site but still
when I look at the site with Macintosh Netscape 6.2 the table breaks. There are
horizontal white gaps between the tables. What should I do? I dont know what is
wrong with it. =(
I thought the background image was forbidden because DW validation said:
"The tag: "td" doesnt have an attribute: "background" in currently active
versions. (HTML 4.0)"
It is a same kind of thing it says about table height and thats why I thought
it was forbidden. I dont know much about css so I dont exactly know how to
determine a background image with the help of css. I have just set a background
image from the properties panel. Didnt know that was wrong.
When I said I have used background images in cells to make tables stretch I
meant that when the table stretches because there is for example a lot of text,
the background image makes the page stretch visually nicely. For example the
black line in the left and right side of the page doesnt break when there is a
lot of text but streches so that the line is continuous. I did not mean that
the background image in itself makes the table stretch. Im sorry if my english
is not too good. Im writing from Finland so english is not my mother tongue.
I have used
<div align="center">
<table....
to center the table horizontally in the middle of the page. Dont know if it is
the wrong way but thats what I have always done...
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-23, 3:29 pm |
| While zee's post is interesting, I doubt that you are ready to go there yet.
> What should I do? I dont know what is
> wrong with it. =(
Please give me the URI to the most recent version of the page.
> I thought the background image was forbidden because DW validation said:
> "The tag: "td" doesnt have an attribute: "background" in currently
active
> versions. (HTML 4.0)"
Well, yeah. That's to keep you from using the HTML background attribute
rather than the CSS background style, which is what you should be using.
> the background image makes the page stretch visually nicely.
OK - I understand what you mean.
> I have used
> <div align="center">
> <table....
> to center the table horizontally in the middle of the page. Dont know if
it is
> the wrong way but thats what I have always done...
Again, I would just use CSS or perhaps the align attribute of the <table>
tag, e.g.,
<table align="center"...>
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"Mainostalo" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1d82c$9f9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> I have always given the table height and cell height because I have
thought
> that it keeps the table from breaking apart when I give the exact
measures. But
> I took away my table height and cell height attributes from the site but
still
> when I look at the site with Macintosh Netscape 6.2 the table breaks.
There are
> horizontal white gaps between the tables. What should I do? I dont know
what is
> wrong with it. =(
>
> I thought the background image was forbidden because DW validation said:
> "The tag: "td" doesnt have an attribute: "background" in currently
active
> versions. (HTML 4.0)"
> It is a same kind of thing it says about table height and thats why I
thought
> it was forbidden. I dont know much about css so I dont exactly know how to
> determine a background image with the help of css. I have just set a
background
> image from the properties panel. Didnt know that was wrong.
>
> When I said I have used background images in cells to make tables stretch
I
> meant that when the table stretches because there is for example a lot of
text,
> the background image makes the page stretch visually nicely. For example
the
> black line in the left and right side of the page doesnt break when there
is a
> lot of text but streches so that the line is continuous. I did not mean
that
> the background image in itself makes the table stretch. Im sorry if my
english
> is not too good. Im writing from Finland so english is not my mother
tongue.
>
> I have used
> <div align="center">
> <table....
> to center the table horizontally in the middle of the page. Dont know if
it is
> the wrong way but thats what I have always done...
>
| |
|
|
| zeesling 2004-02-23, 6:28 pm |
| Here I have this link that I was originally looking for
http://www.uninetnews.com/css/ns6imagesintables.php
Very good explaining of sliced images in table. And remember that dreamweaver
doesn't show right this page after you have made these changes, maybe that is
something to do with css.
To Murray, I was kind of happy to see that you didn't turn me down in the
first place
Regards, Zee
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-23, 6:29 pm |
| Zee:
Well, the page to which you linked was a good read. But I'm guessing well
beyond what is needed right now! 8)
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
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http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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==================
"zeesling" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1ds11$9mv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Here I have this link that I was originally looking for
> http://www.uninetnews.com/css/ns6imagesintables.php
> Very good explaining of sliced images in table. And remember that
dreamweaver
> doesn't show right this page after you have made these changes, maybe that
is
> something to do with css.
> To Murray, I was kind of happy to see that you didn't turn me down in the
> first place
>
> Regards, Zee
>
| |
| zeesling 2004-02-23, 9:28 pm |
| I'm very intrested to see your solution on this one.
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-23, 10:28 pm |
| The server on which this site is hosted is sluggish with its images. The
gaps you are seeing between the navigation buttons are actually missing
images. In IE, right click on each and select Show Image. You'll see.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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==================
"zeesling" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1e6r1$m91$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> I'm very intrested to see your solution on this one.
| |
| zeesling 2004-02-24, 12:30 pm |
| ok looks like we we're both wrong, images are there for sure but what I did was
Tidy up that code just to see everything is right and then make sure it's valid
with W3C html validator, after all corrections it shows right also in netscape
6.2 but talking about only that navbar. There are also these white gaps
elsewhere in table but that's another case.
Regards, Zee
| |
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-24, 12:30 pm |
| What were the errors it tidied?
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
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==================
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==================
"zeesling" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1frer$sm3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> ok looks like we we're both wrong, images are there for sure but what I
did was
> Tidy up that code just to see everything is right and then make sure it's
valid
> with W3C html validator, after all corrections it shows right also in
netscape
> 6.2 but talking about only that navbar. There are also these white gaps
> elsewhere in table but that's another case.
>
> Regards, Zee
>
| |
|
|
| Murray *TMM* 2004-02-24, 1:30 pm |
| Yes - it's a bit image heavy, but it looks nice -
Size of all images: 53.061 kB
Size of HTML-source: 8.807 kB
Size of whole page: 61.868 kB
The good old Netscape image thing. Actually, that's (according to
standards) how it should be done (so I am told). You could also solve it
with
img { display:block; }
which would affect all images. The linked page's solution is another
approach to that same thing.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
ANSWERS
==================
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http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
==================
"zeesling" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:c1g137$88c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Murray, take a look at this link
http://www.arisaarela.com/drago/drago.htm
> I'd like to hear or see what you think?
| |
|
|
| zeesling 2004-02-24, 2:28 pm |
| yes I agree it's image heavy but it's not my problem, I would use css for this kind of navbars.
Reagards, Zee
| |
| Mainostalo 2004-02-25, 11:28 am |
| Murray, you asked me to give the URL to the most recent version of the page.
Its the same address as I gave before
http://www.seapartners.net/drago.htm
Was there an answer to my problem somewhere there in the discussion between
you and zeesling? I am not sure.
| |
| zeesling 2004-02-25, 5:28 pm |
| Hi
I'm not Murray, but I can tell you what I did try. I created external css
file where I put this tr.decoration img {display: block;}
then put this to your code <tr class="decoration"> so simple. It fixes the
bug in netscape 6.2, You better check it your self from link I gave above what
browsers that supports.
Hope this helps!
|
|
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